[drdoityourself]

It's really annoying reading those who like him, bang on about those who don't having no understanding of football.
His comparison for the right wing spot is Juan Mata, the slowest winger known to man, so he obviously seems a breath of fresh air. But really he is an ordinary player, works hard but the other two in the front three always seem more threatening. Yesterday was one of his better games, he's ok when the team as a whole is playing well, struggles heavily when the team is under pressure, then he's no influence on the game.
There is of course no rule of how a player will turn out, but I will be shocked if is ceiling is higher than what we're seeing now. The technical and physical attributes on show seem extremely ordinary.

 

[caid]

It's really annoying reading those who like him, bang on about those who don't having no understanding of football.
His comparison for the right wing spot is Juan Mata, the slowest winger known to man, so he obviously seems a breath of fresh air. But really he is an ordinary player, works hard but the other two in the front three always seem more threatening. Yesterday was one of his better games, he's ok when the team as a whole is playing well, struggles heavily when the team is under pressure, then he's no influence on the game.
There is of course no rule of how a player will turn out, but I will be shocked if is ceiling is higher than what we're seeing now. The technical and physical attributes on show seem extremely ordinary.

I swing between that opinion and the 'hes actually really good' opinion from game to game nearly tbh.
I dont think the people saying hes ordinary just dont understand football (I agree with them quite often) but ...
I dunno, theres the odd flash of a really good player so I wouldn't be too surprised if he turns out to be surprisingly good.

I do kind of feel that if he threw a few stepovers or backheels around the odd time he'd probably be rated higher by some

 

[stevoc]

But you do make an assumption that he 'probably won't improve much beyond his current level' and call him a 'Squad player who has probably already reached about 95% of his total potential.' What makes you think that though? How do you assume that Depay has a higher celling and he'll probably blossom under any other manager but Lingard won't

It's called an opinion, one formed from having watched him play over a number of years. I did say in my last post i don't know for certain how either player will definitely turn out. I am not claiming i can predict the future.

But based on watching both this season, Depay has been largely poor and Lingard has played well enough but Depay clearly has much more potential in my opinion.

That he's not really frozen out if he's played just roughly 200 minutes less than Lingard?

Most of Depays minutes came before Xmas, he's been pretty much frozen out since then as he hasn't started many matches or even came on as a sub.

And again, Ronaldo wasn't as terrible as Depay is.

And again what relevance does that have to this conversation? Remember i was not directly comparing Depay with Ronaldo why are you? Also i would like to think one of the best players ever playing in a much better side had a higher bottom level than Depay.

For Lingard it's pretty much his first year in PL as well and he's doing better than Depay, or is it because Lingard was loaned out to Championship before? Or is that because he's English? Januzaj in his debut season was a lot better than Depay too, being even younger, but I suppose it's down to him being our academy product (if you can call him that), right?

More than likely yes. Some players, especially young ones need a year or more to settle in to a different country/culture/club/league.

But I'd say that Depay is actually one of those players who had LVG's trust. I mean, he played him in WC before he came to us, he transferred him to us, gave him multiple chances when he was rubbish and even let him play as a striker to absolve him of defensive duties which seems to be his biggest weakness. Also, 18 year old Ronaldo was actually able to beat his man with tricks whatsoever, 22 year old Depay is not.

And again with the irrelevant comparisons, ok then i'll play 23 year old Lingard isn't as good as Messi was at 18. Explain please?

 

[stevoc]

Um, Ronaldo made 22 sub appearances in his first season with us...

Thanks for the info. He wasn't frozen out of the team though was he, he got regular starts every few games and came on in many games.

 

[TwoSheds]

Thanks for the info. He wasn't frozen out of the team though was he, he got regular starts every few games and came on in many games.

Ronaldo had 18 starts and 22 sub appearances. Depay has 25 and 25 I believe.

 

[stevoc]

Ronaldo had 18 starts and 22 sub appearances. Depay has 25 and 25 I believe.

Sorry mate Depay having more starts than Ronaldo in their respective first seasons proves what exactly?

Before Xmas Depay had 24 starts and 6 sub appearances. After Xmas 6 starts and 9 sub appearances in all comps. So clearly he is not playing as much as he used to.

For the sake of comparison Ronaldo started 11 games and came on 8 times before Xmas in his first year. And after Xmas he started 13 and came on 8 times. So as i said his appearances were consistent throughout the season in all comps.

Your stats are off by the way mate, Ronaldo did indeed make 40 appearances that year but he started 24 of them and was sub 16. And Depay hasn't came on 25 times as a Sub this season.

 

[GledTheRed]

Nah they wouldn't, it's the exact opposite. He'd be getting slated if he cost £20m and rightly so because he isn't worth half that. People like him because he's from the academy. He runs around a lot but I genuinely can't see anything else he's remotely good at. He isn't rapid, his finishing is awful, his short passing isn't good at all. Nowhere near good enough for us.

His finishing it actually pretty fecking good. He's got a great strike on him, feck you been watching?!

 

[ADJUDICATOR]

His finishing it actually pretty fecking good. He's got a great strike on him, feck you been watching?!

I think every Man Utd fan has seen Lingard squander a good handful of golden opportunities with poor finishing.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

His finishing it actually pretty fecking good. He's got a great strike on him, feck you been watching?!

the problem is that we dont create chances as a team and when somebody at United misses a good chance thats a big deal while Suarez/Aub/Lewa and pretty much every player in good team can miss and misses them regularly but people dont make a big deal out of it as they score eventually because their teams create more chances per player then we create as a team.

 

[Shamwow]

I think every Man Utd fan has seen Lingard squander a good handful of golden opportunities with poor finishing.

As far as I can tell he has the second best strike conversion rate after rashford. Stats don't tell the whole story but he's certainly up there.

 

[ADJUDICATOR]

As far as I can tell he has the second best strike conversion rate after rashford. Stats don't tell the whole story but he's certainly up there.

Decent finishing is something he's generally been known for, that I'll admit.

 

[Lash]

But based on watching both this season, Depay has been largely poor and Lingard has played well enough but Depay clearly has much more potential in my opinion.

I'm not sure what you're basing this on exactly? Depay's one stormer against Midgetland? Over the season Lingard has actually shown improvement and Depay has just shown a sh*t show with the very rare good performance. I don't think that justifies much more potential.

 

[stevoc]

I'm not sure what you're basing this on exactly? Depay's one stormer against Midgetland? Over the season Lingard has actually shown improvement and Depay has just shown a sh*t show with the very rare good performance. I don't think that justifies much more potential.

No over 30 odd games, you may see it differently and thats fine but thats my opinion.

I still think with the right manager who develops him right Depay could be a cracking player.

 

[Lash]

No over 30 odd games, you may see it differently and thats fine but thats my opinion.

I still think with the right manager who develops him right Depay could be a cracking player.

Fair enough.

I still think you're putting a lot of onus on the manager for his development, when ultimately; in life, it's solely you responsible for where you want to go.

 

[stevoc]

Fair enough.

I still think you're putting a lot of onus on the manager for his development, when ultimately; in life, it's solely you responsible for where you want to go.

Yeah maybe, but i have always thought certain players need certain managers to develop them properly. Creative players who take a few risks don't seem to do well under Van Gaal. I'm disappointed Januzaj (might be still be injured) or Pereira aren't getting much of a look in either.

 

[Lash]

Yeah maybe, but i have always thought certain players need certain managers to develop them properly. Creative players who take a few risks don't seem to do well under Van Gaal. I'm disappointed Januzaj (might be still be injured) or Pereira aren't getting much of a look in either.

I appreciate the point, but I think it's just biased to our players. He's developed plenty of other players in his time. I think the three players mentioned above don't have the best mentality anyway. They don't seem to have that "just get on with it" attitude and seem to think they're already destined for something better, when they've actually achieved and shown very little.

 

[stevoc]

I appreciate the point, but I think it's just biased to our players. He's developed plenty of other players in his time. I think the three players mentioned above don't have the best mentality anyway.

He has of that theres no doubt. But there's certain players who just aren't a good fit with certain managers to be developed.

They don't seem to have that "just get on with it" attitude and seem to think they're already destined for something better, when they've actually achieved and shown very little.

Maybe but we don't know for sure. Footballers are human beings all with different personalities, some will be sensitive, introverted or maybe too cocky and some need to be more carefully handled to get the best out of them. Rumour has it Van Gaal has a one size fits all approach to man management.

It's an old cliche but some players need a kick up the arse and some need an arm around their shoulder. Ferguson was a genius at that , Van Gaal who knows.

I mean look at say Ronaldo early in his career some accused him of being moody, cocky and perhaps not having the right attitude to become a top player. That's obviously ludicrous now but back then loads of people thought similar. Ferguson handled him properly and became like a father figure to him instead of a school teacher, because thats what he needed.

 

[Mainoldo]

I swing between that opinion and the 'hes actually really good' opinion from game to game nearly tbh.
I dont think the people saying hes ordinary just dont understand football (I agree with them quite often) but ...
I dunno, theres the odd flash of a really good player so I wouldn't be too surprised if he turns out to be surprisingly good.

I do kind of feel that if he threw a few stepovers or backheels around the odd time he'd probably be rated higher by some

Exactly this. If he nutmegged a few players and tried a rabona. Ordinary Lingard becomes a guy with a bright future.

 

[drdoityourself]

Exactly this. If he nutmegged a few players and tried a rabona. Ordinary Lingard becomes a guy with a bright future.

Call the trick what you want, but yes if he would actually beat players on the dribble I would rate him differently.

 

[TwoSheds]

Call the trick what you want, but yes if he would actually beat players on the dribble I would rate him differently.

He does beat players, it's Memphis who finds that difficult in league games...

 

[Mainoldo]

Call the trick what you want, but yes if he would actually beat players on the dribble I would rate him differently.

But his game has never been based on dribbling, so that's different all together.. He can beat a man with pace and is tactically a smart player.. and reads the final 3rd well. We are just short sighted to this because he doesn't look entertaining hence my comment.

 

[m1y2]

Call the trick what you want, but yes if he would actually beat players on the dribble I would rate him differently.

jesus christ, by that logic Vidic is a shit player

 

[J-Stander]

His finishing it actually pretty fecking good. He's got a great strike on him, feck you been watching?!

Him miss a shit load of chances. Not tough ones either. What the feck have YOU been watching?

 

[stevoc]

jesus christ, by that logic Vidic is a shit player

Not saying i agree with the dribbling comment, but i think it's at least fair game to discuss a wingers dribbling ability. A centre backs dribbling ability on the other hand not so much.

 

[m1y2]

Not saying i agree with the dribbling comment, but i think it's at least fair game to discuss a wingers dribbling ability. A centre backs dribbling ability on the other hand not so much.

may have not been the best example but they are simply different players, Mata from the left wing at Chelsea before Mourinho was one of the best players in the premier league and did he outdribbled players, he's much worse than Lingard in that matter, Lingard is clearly best centrally or as a playmaker cutting inside on the other hand there are other players who just like to beat players form the byline who seek those 1v1 and as we could see there is very few players who can do it consistently so I am not sure who are we comparing to Lingard now but he's definitely a different player who creates chances his own way

 

[Lawman]

Lingard is not good enough as a regular winger but he is a decent enough squad player. He should get nowhere near 30 games a season and not more than 10-15 starts imo.

 

[stevoc]

may have not been the best example but they are simply different players, Mata from the left wing at Chelsea before Mourinho was one of the best players in the premier league and did he outdribbled players, he's much worse than Lingard in that matter, Lingard is clearly best centrally or as a playmaker cutting inside on the other hand there are other players who just like to beat players form the byline who seek those 1v1 and as we could see there is very few players who can do it consistently so I am not sure who are we comparing to Lingard now but he's definitely a different player who creates chances his own way

Fair enough i get what you were saying mate. I don't think you have to be a great dribbler to be an effective wide player either. Look at Beckham, it was just as you say Vidic was a bad example.

You think Lingard's better centrally? I mean i thought the same when i used to watch him in the reserves but in the first team he looks more effective on the wing for me. I don't think he has enough quality to play centrally always looks a bit anonymous in there, not as our first choice anyway as an option sure.

 

[Rossa]

Not saying i agree with the dribbling comment, but i think it's at least fair game to discuss a wingers dribbling ability. A centre backs dribbling ability on the other hand not so much.

Rio

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Rio

any excuse to post this

 

[m1y2]

Fair enough i get what you were saying mate. I don't think you have to be a great dribbler to be an effective wide player either. Look at Beckham, it was just as you say Vidic was a bad example.

You think Lingard's better centrally? I mean i thought the same when i used to watch him in the reserves but in the first team he looks more effective on the wing for me. I don't think he has enough quality to play centrally always looks a bit anonymous in there, not as our first choice anyway as an option sure.

Beckham's also a great example, he also was different with his skillset.. Lingard has all the attributes to play form the middle, since the first game Van Gaal played him there he was getting better until the game before Westham, where he was very disappointing but so was everyone.

No10 role is really difficult to play, like you say you can look anonymous very easily but he's working hard to make runs, press defenders or track back with players when needed, also he's very good finding the little pockets between the lines, has a quick turn and has a speed of thought to release the ball quickly, one-two's with players around him, he is not a good dribbler from the wide areas but decent enough to quickly turn with the ball after recieving it and make a nice surging run through the middle.. he's a good pochaer as well which makes him very useful player for that role.

shame he couldnt finish his chances lately, he missed some sitters this season and he desrves some criticism but at least he got to the chances, if he scored half of them he could be valued differently here and with a change of luck and more work on his composure which used to work for him during his youth years I think it's possible bare in mind that the game is much higher tempo so the legs are gone pretty quickly.. people just dislike him like they did with Welbeck who was brilliant for us but after some missed chances he was all of a sudden noone here, all the good work forgotten.

Anyways lingard has a future as a CAM or maybe even attacking b2b where his hardwork could be used even more and when his touch is off.. He had some great games for U21 national team there as well and I am sure he will show it in the first team of MUFC too, but the variant of him starting from wide and picking the same positions in the middle seems also interesting because it is quite hard to mark, that was the case in the last game, he was a bit of everywhere, which is how he should be utilised - with freedom to roam a bit..

On the other hand he didnt show enough penetrating passes and didn't score as often as I thought but as I said that can change, it's his first season, with a bit of confidence and with the fresh start of the next season and preseason as 1st teamer under his belt and perhaps most importantly with a better manager, who can make the best out of him some people may change their mind..

 

[GledTheRed]

Him miss a shit load of chances. Not tough ones either. What the feck have YOU been watching?

Pipe down big man, half of the replies proved you're talking through your arse.

 

[stevoc]

Rio

Yeah fair point lol.

Funnily enough back in the day Gary Pallister loved the odd run up the left wing, he wasn't bad at it either.

 

[TwoSheds]

Needs to look more bothered than he did yesterday when he came on. I'd drop him next game. Young or Depay right wing.

 

[Lentwood]

My question to the pro-Lingard campaigners.

If Lingard where playing for Newcastle, Everton or Liverpool and his performances this season had been identical to what we have seen at Utd, would you be clamouring to sign him? Course you wouldn't and that is the end of the argument for me.

Good lad, decent player, squad player not a starter

 

[TwoSheds]

My question to the pro-Lingard campaigners.

If Lingard where playing for Newcastle, Everton or Liverpool and his performances this season had been identical to what we have seen at Utd, would you be clamouring to sign him? Course you wouldn't and that is the end of the argument for me.

Good lad, decent player, squad player not a starter

You could count on one hand the number of people in this thread who think he's a true first XI player.

Most people who like him are merely defending him from the twonks who think he's rubbish because he doesn't do enough stepovers and his name isn't foreign (enough). Literally 90% of posts in this thread must mention the words "squad player" so I don't know why anyone needs to say it again. Problem is, so many of you are saying it in a negative way. Why isn't it nice that we've found a squad player who can contribute in a couple of positions in which we are weak?

 

[Lawman]

You could count on one hand the number of people in this thread who think he's a true first XI player.

Most people who like him are merely defending him from the twonks who think he's rubbish because he doesn't do enough stepovers and his name isn't foreign (enough). Literally 90% of posts in this thread must mention the words "squad player" so I don't know why anyone needs to say it again. Problem is, so many of you are saying it in a negative way. Why isn't it nice that we've found a squad player who can contribute in a couple of positions in which we are weak?

M1y2 has a weird love in with Lingard going on!

 

[J-Stander]

Pipe down big man, half of the replies proved you're talking through your arse.

Give over you condescending bellend.

 

[drdoityourself]

You could count on one hand the number of people in this thread who think he's a true first XI player.

Most people who like him are merely defending him from the twonks who think he's rubbish because he doesn't do enough stepovers and his name isn't foreign (enough). Literally 90% of posts in this thread must mention the words "squad player" so I don't know why anyone needs to say it again. Problem is, so many of you are saying it in a negative way. Why isn't it nice that we've found a squad player who can contribute in a couple of positions in which we are weak?

No one's been saying that. But you do need to have the ability to beat a man when you're playing as a right winger in a front 3. He does try it a few times, kicks it 10 metres past his defender and is let down by his average pace and lack of strength (his pace is exaggerated on here). It's not because he doesn't do fancy tricks or isn't foreign as I couldn't give a feck where he comes from, he's just as average as they come. As I've said earlier he symbolizes LvG's attack. No risks in possession, low creativity and high importance on closing down, which is a fine feature to have but shouldn't be a stand out feature in an attacking player at this club.

Those who like him the most see him as an attacking midfielder, he's far from having the skill set to make it there. For me he doesn't have enough about him to even make it in the long term as a squad player. I respect the opinion of those who don't agree with me, but the line quoted there grinds my gears.

 

[shaggy]

My question to the pro-Lingard campaigners.

If Lingard where playing for Newcastle, Everton or Liverpool and his performances this season had been identical to what we have seen at Utd, would you be clamouring to sign him? Course you wouldn't and that is the end of the argument for me.

Good lad, decent player, squad player not a starter

Yeah he's no better than someone like Townsend or Lennon, actually those two are probably better. Place would go into meltdown if we bought one of those.

 

[TwoSheds]

Yeah he's no better than someone like Townsend or Lennon, actually those two are probably better. Place would go into meltdown if we bought one of those.

I actually like Townsend but I don't agree with the Lennon comparison at all. Lennon is a much better dribbler but nowhere near as intelligent and has very poor end product.