Their left side looks okay (Diaz, Robertson even the suddenly just good not great Van Dijk) but the entire rest of the team is a disaster at the moment. They need a couple new midfielders, a RB to keep TAA honest (and the Scottish child they've just signed probably doesn't count) and maybe start rotating Salah (with Elliot, who is good on the ball but seems to have destabilized their midfield defensively) who can't get any separation from a defender.
Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Trent lacks the pace for that to work effectively, I feel
I'm not sure if there is an easy fix for this. It all seems to have come up very quickly after we almost won everything last season and everything looked rosy. Here are the biggest issues as far as I can tell:
- Teams know how to play against us. We're so predictable in terms of how we're going to set up and don't have a plan B. Plan A has stopped working and so we're going behind in almost every game that we play. We're actually still hitting 60-70% possession but despite that, the opposition seems to be able to create either more or better quality chances with less of the ball.
- The squad looks knackered. We've got a fair few 30+ players in the team and this squad played every game possible last season. It's starting to show and we're now getting outrun in every game we play.
- Some players have dropped off of a cliff with their form. Van Dijk, Henderson, Salah and Alexander-Arnold have been terrible. Robertson has been mediocre as well. Salah seems to have been nullified as a goal threat and turned into a creative winger by Klopp (maybe to suit Nunez?) but it's taken away what Salah's been doing so well for years now, scoring goals.
- Nunez...I mean he can't really do much on the ball can he? Rubbish at dribbling, passing and build up play. Sometimes he gets on the end of things but even then he seems to mess everything up. He's a shadow of the player Mane was/is.
- Injuries. I mean a lot of these are muscular so maybe due to training but it's not ideal. Some of these are players with terrible fitness records so it was kind of predictable.
- The high line. It's great when we're controlling games but we're not any more and so it's being massively exposed over and over again.
- Klopp might've gotten as much out of these group as he can. It happened at Mainz and Dortmund so it's possible that it's happening again. Hard to say.
There are probably other issues as well but it's going to take a lot of work from Klopp to turn this around. Seems like some players have given up.
- Teams know how to play against us. We're so predictable in terms of how we're going to set up and don't have a plan B. Plan A has stopped working and so we're going behind in almost every game that we play. We're actually still hitting 60-70% possession but despite that, the opposition seems to be able to create either more or better quality chances with less of the ball.
- The squad looks knackered. We've got a fair few 30+ players in the team and this squad played every game possible last season. It's starting to show and we're now getting outrun in every game we play.
- Some players have dropped off of a cliff with their form. Van Dijk, Henderson, Salah and Alexander-Arnold have been terrible. Robertson has been mediocre as well. Salah seems to have been nullified as a goal threat and turned into a creative winger by Klopp (maybe to suit Nunez?) but it's taken away what Salah's been doing so well for years now, scoring goals.
- Nunez...I mean he can't really do much on the ball can he? Rubbish at dribbling, passing and build up play. Sometimes he gets on the end of things but even then he seems to mess everything up. He's a shadow of the player Mane was/is.
- Injuries. I mean a lot of these are muscular so maybe due to training but it's not ideal. Some of these are players with terrible fitness records so it was kind of predictable.
- The high line. It's great when we're controlling games but we're not any more and so it's being massively exposed over and over again.
- Klopp might've gotten as much out of these group as he can. It happened at Mainz and Dortmund so it's possible that it's happening again. Hard to say.
There are probably other issues as well but it's going to take a lot of work from Klopp to turn this around. Seems like some players have given up.
Thing is Liverpool signings where amazingly great when he arrived, obviously amazing recruitment but also luck. Signing Mane, Wijnaldum, Matip in his first season, followed by Van Dijk, Salah, Robertson, and then on his third season Alisson and Fabinho, with Keita being the only "miss". I mean thats a dream for any club. Basically they struck gold with every single player they bought.
Now since Klopp has to renew the squad we'll see if they have the same luck. They've generally had players working, but its always easier for a player to arrive into a already functioning squad. We'll see if Klopp can cope with Van Dijk's and Salah's level dropping and how Liverpool make up for it.
Now since Klopp has to renew the squad we'll see if they have the same luck. They've generally had players working, but its always easier for a player to arrive into a already functioning squad. We'll see if Klopp can cope with Van Dijk's and Salah's level dropping and how Liverpool make up for it.
Salah would cost 130m+ euros in todays market. Liverpool literally can't afford to buy VVD and Salah in their primes.
They need to get a young player and mould them like they tried with Konate or just fall off. I think they'll fall off massively.
SAF got absurdly lucky too, he managed to get Scholes, Giggs for 15 years and then got Rio young and Rooney. He had a spine of a team he could dismantle and refresh.
Klopp doesn't have that, Klopp has 30 year olds and a club which doesn't have the financial clout of United. I said on this forum years ago in 3 years Liverpool are fecked if they don't refresh their squad and now its starting to happen.
I also don't think Klopp has a plan B outside of a pressing team. What is he going to do when his squad can't run? or when Fabino gets injured and a team attacks Gomez / TAA down the left of the pitch?
I personally can't see Liverpool making it now, they just don't have the legs and can't go deep into the EPLseason without quality, they have kids in the squad that are good but not going to win them football matches.
They've signed Arthur who I think has potential to be a top player under the right manager, but it shows they don't have money because he was gotten on loan.
Klopps press tactics are physically demanding, they're really going to struggle.
There is a reason he was converted from a midfielder and solely used as an right-back where they have basically written off all his defensive contributions all these years.
He is terrible with the ball under pressure, not excactly slow but won't skin anyone for pace, doesn't beat a man to go past him, doesn't dribble. His right-foot is brilliant, fantastic crosser, very good at diagonals to the opposite back which i'm sure is well drilled in training and he has a good shot on him, but if he is not in a crossing position he is painfully slow on the ball, he shows decent vision centrally at times but he more often than not ends up losing the ball.
He will never ever play at a high level in centre midfield like so many people predicted, and even less so as a forward, he is nowhere near the required level as an overall footballer.
I have been in awe over some of their players the past couple of years but TAA has always been the one I have never understood the hype for. Even Southgate sees it. If you can cover his creativity higher up the pitch there is no reason to have an right-back that can't defend and depends on space on the ball to suceed.
To finish bluntly, credit to Klopp and Trent for his fantastic right-foot for maximising his output the past few seasons but for me he is nothing but a glorified Rory Delap
Exactly, players like prime Salah and Virgil are simply unattainable, first because there are only 2-3 players out there at that level and second because they're not for sale. Recruiting and developing that type of talent is not easy. Liverpool will find it hard, even having Klopp.
Diaz — Darwin — Salah vs Diaz — Firminho — Salah vs Diaz — Salah — TAA
Assuming Jota is still out, I’m not sure if there’s any other way to try something different. At the end of the day Salah is being wasted out wide.
If things go bad for Liverpool it’s going to go down in such a beautiful way. Half of them would be asking for his head and the rest would be counting his achievements. The fights will be amazing
He has more than earned the right to rebuild that team. I don't know if FSG are prepared for that option. People forget Fergie had periodically poor seasons and he knew when to break up a squad. Liverpool need to do the same.
To be fair, they did not sign prime Salah and VVD. Klopp elevated their games several levels. He is going to have to sign players like that and elevate them.
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Danny Murphy says it’s all ok. It’s just complacency.
Spending money means blocking the likes of Elliotts growth and any critics are just looking for reasons to talk about Klopp.
So behave. That’s that sorted.
Spending money means blocking the likes of Elliotts growth and any critics are just looking for reasons to talk about Klopp.
So behave. That’s that sorted.
Is that the same Murphy who's criticizing absolutely everything about United?
Yeah. Eriksen is a boring signing that won’t get in the team. Martinez will fail and Maguire deserves to start. The manager is uninspiring and the midfield won’t ever work well together. But Liverpool are being managed in the best way possible and we shouldn’t question Klopp’s decisions whatsoever.
Exactly, and they'll struggle. Because as much as a great coach Klopp is you don't get Salah's and VVD's levels very opten.
It's moments like this where you appreciate SAF even more in that he rebuit the team time and time again over 27 years with the right quality and personal. It remains to be seen rather Klopp is even up to his first rebuild. He's looking jaded.
People very swift to announce his, and their, demise. I only wish it were so.
Sensible post, belies poster's name.
There's always so much material for me to quote later in the season and then get called a WUM for it.
You get called DUM surely!
People call it as they see it.Sensible post, belies poster's name.
There's always so much material for me to quote later in the season and then get called a WUM for it.
What we’re witnessing is a hangover from last season. I think the disappointment of losing the UCL final and EPL on the final day were massive punches to the gut. I think they’ll eventually recover but it may be too late for a title challenge this year.
This is what I had said to a few mates but they thought it should fire Liverpool up even more.
It just looks like mentally its had an issue with the players.
2 times in 4 seasons they lost it by a fine margin, then losing the CL after a very good second half, its hard to get yourself back up mentally.
Then you see City sign Haaland and surely then the players would be thinking, it is demoralising to see that.
This is one of the key difference between United fans and Liverpool fans. We're eternal pessimists, they are blind optimists.
Not sure you'd get many United fans saying the same after we botched the Europa League final under Solskjaer. It was clear to most sane fans that it was a hammer blow confidence wise.
Do you think players might have one eye on the World Cup also?
If Trent thinks Southgate is picking him ahead of Walker, James or Trippier then he's living on another planet.
Nothing a like few decent signing to light up the fire in the tasks ass. They been top of the game for so long and kept missing it out on the very least day. Need some fresh rejuvenation.
I agree with this. It's a hangover from what could've been, plus they look knackered from playing every possible game last season.
Ramblings of a madman.
Full quotes:
Full quotes:
- “I don’t have any problems with anyone from City. They deserved it just as much as we deserved it,” he told Sport 1.
- “What comes up in a moment like that: a few things happened over the season when a few things went against us, so I was thinking on the day: Let’s hope it won’t be decisive in the end.
- “And then you forget about it again and don’t think about it. There were really blatant refereeing decisions. You keep thinking, what went in our favour?
- “Completely without club glasses. We were lucky once not to get a penalty against us. But we were already leading 2-0. Otherwise – nothing.
- “And against us? Clear handball penalties, penalties not given. Clear red cards not given against us, so for the opponent. That comes up at this moment. It’s human to think for a moment. But I don’t carry that around for long.
- “No matter how Manchester City get the result, I accepted it – it’s deserved. And the other way round quite the same.
- “And I can say: today I would be sitting here and wouldn’t feel one bit different if I had become champion and won the Champions League for a second time.”
Can you blame us?
I think there are a couple of things going on. Firstly, I think Klopp will struggle with a team who cannot press/do the yards. This is an issue with the current squad make up as he has too many O-30's, particularly as the ones that are O-30 are in key positions and protected the players in the squad who had some faliabilities; ses TAA. Now they're starting to have their legs go, the exposure of their weaker elements are getting expolited. This is also what happened to him at Dortmund.
Another issue, is more widespread and not just effecting the Dippers. Personally, I think there is a little bit of a transition going on in football. Teams, particularly those outside the 'elite' (hate this term) seem to be focusing more of patterns of play, positional play with highly structured triangles and playing between the lines. This is allowing them to counter the press more and expose some of the gaps this opens up if you can move the ball quickly. This is also why I think Chelsea have struggled this season, as teams are playing in-between them a lot better, whereas we have seen teams also try this with City to less success.
Personally, I can see teams starting to shift to 442 (diamonds) shortly to try and gain more control in the middle of the park. This would also explain to me why the Dippers and City also went out and got No.9's after building all their recent success on F9's.
You get called a wum cause you are one.Sensible post, belies poster's name.
There's always so much material for me to quote later in the season and then get called a WUM for it.
The cheek of him to speak about ref decisions..
I think the biggest issue is that they're still attempting to play high up the field when they have two of Elliott and Milner/Henderson starting. Absolute non-entities. His unwavering loyalty to players who haven't got legs to move in the engine room is killing them.
Players being in poor form (Salah, Trent) and players declining from their best level (Fabinho, VVD) are issues, but most of that stems from how negligent the management has been around their midfield.
He needs a nap
VVD looks like Titus Bramble and TAA like Gary Nev in his final season. Early days but long may it continue.
Yeah the high line without an organized, active press is obviously causing them issues defensively. But Salah has looked surprisingly easy to defend instead of the normal handful he is. Wonder if that'll continue.
I know they won, but they just don’t have that same fear factor about them anymore.
The joy teams are getting down TAA's and VVD's side is mental. It's as bad as our left side last season with Shaw and Maguire in there.
TAA and VVD play on different sides though