[Sied]

If that's the case you could blame DDG too for not coming to claim. It was Luke's man and he fell asleep really to let Naismith in. Shaw is an excellent talent and I'm completely comfortable with the fee we paid, but people have to be realistic and he has made some bad mistakes - 2 in one game against Everton for example.

Naismith's goal can't be blamed on any one individual imo. If Rafael had held the line Naismith would have been off. You could even blame Falcao for being a little sleepy in watching Baines. Falcao was the one man wall and let Baines do a 1-2 before crossing the ball unchallenged.

Then like you say, you could blame Shaw for not being tighter on Baines and perhaps DDG for not coming out, although that's the harshest blame of the lot imo. If I remember correctly the freekick was given away cheaply in the first place too.

LVG would probably rewind even further back to where possession was originally lost. Anyway my point being, there's no point trying to lay blame with individuals for that goal because it wasn't solely anyone's fault. It was a fantastic ball in and great movement and finish by Naismith.

 

[Adam-Utd]

If that's the case you could blame DDG too for not coming to claim. It was Luke's man and he fell asleep really to let Naismith in. Shaw is an excellent talent and I'm completely comfortable with the fee we paid, but people have to be realistic and he has made some bad mistakes - 2 in one game against Everton for example.

If your going to put blame anywhere, it's falling asleep at the free kick. Every man and their dog know what Everton were going to do. Stop Baines crossing and their threat is severely limited. Why we decided to back off and just let him drop it where he wanted it was ridiculous.

 

[Ish]

anyone's fault. It was a fantastic ball in and great movement and finish by Naismith.

Yep, sometimes you just need to give credit where it's due. It was a magnificent ball in and good movement by Naismith.

If we're going by any sort of logic, then every goal can be dissected and blame attributed to an individual accordingly.

Shaw has started slowly (injuries etc.), but he'll get there. Talent is undoubted.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Naismith was playing centrally, no? How on earth was he Luke Shaw's man to mark?

If Pienarr or McGeady had scored he might have a point...

 

[Sied]

Naismith was playing centrally, no? How on earth was he Luke Shaw's man to mark?

If Pienarr or McGeady had scored he might have a point...

The goal came just after a set piece, so perhaps he means Shaw had been assigned to mark Naismith.

 

[Rykker_4united]

I see him as an ideal replacement for Rooney as captain. I think the timing is right. He'll be 25/26 probably when Rooney retires and mature enough to take it over. He's English, he has a good work ethic and I think he can develop into a real leader.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The goal came just after a set piece, so perhaps he means Shaw had been assigned to mark Naismith.

Well seeing as he wasn't marking Naismith when the cross came in, I'd be curious to know why anyone is assuming he was supposed to be?!

 

[fergieisold]

Naismith was playing centrally, no? How on earth was he Luke Shaw's man to mark?

If Pienarr or McGeady had scored he might have a point...

It's just the way the play developed, he was definitely Shaw's man. Like others have said though there was a whole range of problems with conceding that goal.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Actually, just found a (really poor quality) video online and it does look as though he was supposed to be picking up Naismith. My bad.

In the grand scheme of things, those two errors mean feck all really. Just unlucky those mistakes were both punished. Generally been excellent so far. Which is the main thing. It would be like saying Di Maria's been a poor signing on the basis of a few misplaced passes or scuffed shots. Mistakes happen. It's possible for a player to make some mistakes and still put in an excellent performance overall.

 

[SirAF]

Actually, just found a (really poor quality) video online and it does look as though he was supposed to be picking up Naismith. My bad.

In the grand scheme of things, those two errors mean feck all really. Just unlucky those mistakes were both punished. Generally been excellent so far. Which is the main thing. It would be like saying Di Maria's been a poor signing on the basis of a few misplaced passes or scuffed shots. Mistakes happen. It's possible for a player to make some mistakes and still put in an excellent performance overall.

I agree with the Pogue.

 

[DWelbz19]

I see him as an ideal replacement for Rooney as captain. I think the timing is right. He'll be 25/26 probably when Rooney retires and mature enough to take it over. He's English, he has a good work ethic and I think he can develop into a real leader.

From our current set up, I think Rafael or De Gea. Maybe Luke will grow into the role, he already looks ridiculously composed and mature, who knows? Maybe leadership is synonymous with that.

 

[gooDevil]

He's looked class imo, thought the penalty was harsh but only gave big Dave the chance to shine.

We need someone that strong going forward as a full back, the modern game demands it from a top team.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Actually, just found a (really poor quality) video online and it does look as though he was supposed to be picking up Naismith. My bad.

In the grand scheme of things, those two errors mean feck all really. Just unlucky those mistakes were both punished. Generally been excellent so far. Which is the main thing. It would be like saying Di Maria's been a poor signing on the basis of a few misplaced passes or scuffed shots. Mistakes happen. It's possible for a player to make some mistakes and still put in an excellent performance overall.

Yup, agreed. He's made a mistake here and there but looked very solid otherwise. Which is very different to many of our other defenders who have spent entire games being nervy and mistake prone (till their injuries put them out of their miseries...).

 

[RexHamilton]

I'd rather watch Chelsea bore me to death than watch an Englang game twice consisting of current useless and overrated players. The only reason I even bothered watching it was because of Jones' and Smallings' world cup debut and not because of a guy who didn't impress me and somehow managed to be unfit, but never mind, apparently he is still excellent while Coentrao who has been defending at the highest level and against the best attackers apparently is poor defensively.

So far all I have is an unproven potential who both his club and country manager deemed unfit and who has not acchieved anything yet.
But excuse me for asking how he has been excellent.

I'm only talking about the one specific game where you said he was all over the place, but everyone else disagrees. Everyone from the people on here who watched the match to all the papers, to anyone else I've spoken to about it. Everyone.

 

[mazhar13]

Even though @united_99 has said many absurd things in this thread, I do understand his underlying point. The fact that we plaid 27 million pounds for Shaw is strange for him as Shaw isn't some established, world class left back at the moment. He'd rather prefer if we went for a cheaper alternative (I'd like to know who you preferred over Shaw) who was also a very good left back.

As a result, @united_99 is scrutinizing Shaw without much context, which is what's so absurd about his evaluations. If Shaw has made mistakes in his performances and hasn't look world class as of yet but has shown lots of promise and good quality in his current performances, does that mean that we can dismiss him and immediately conclude that he's not a good buy? When Rio was making mistakes in his first few years (on and off the pitch), how many fans immediately dismissed him and declared him a poor buy?

At this point, he's shown himself to be an excellent man-marker and composed defender. Going forward, he has an excellent delivery and very good decision-making. His only weakness is that he struggles at reading the game, defensively, and reacting to certain situations, which is normal for a teenage defender. Even then, though, it's not like his weakness is so bad that it'll never be suppressed.

I can see that @united_99 is afraid of Shaw not fulfilling his potential and remaining as error-prone as he currently is. However, given his mentality, I don't think he'll fail. He's so mentally strong and composed that I feel like he can be successful and be among the best left backs in the world.

 

[ZDwyr]

From our current set up, I think Rafael or De Gea. Maybe Luke will grow into the role, he already looks ridiculously composed and mature, who knows? Maybe leadership is synonymous with that.

Wouldn't count out Jones yet either.

 

[Manucho the boss]

Any theories on why he's been dropped back down to the England u21's?

Regular game time is good as he doesn't look naturally the fittest lad but I'd have expected him to push on and be challenging Baines who is starting to fade.

 

[iBoss]

Any theories on why he's been dropped back down to the England u21's?

Regular game time is good as he doesn't look naturally the fittest lad but I'd have expected him to push on and be challenging Baines who is starting to fade.

Gibbs has been good for a while so he deserves the chance, probably more so than Shaw.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Any theories on why he's been dropped back down to the England u21's?

Regular game time is good as he doesn't look naturally the fittest lad but I'd have expected him to push on and be challenging Baines who is starting to fade.

Pretty sure it was mainly because England had to win the leg against Croatia to qualify, so they wanted the best players available. I think those games would have been more of a test than against Estonia and San Marino anyway!

 

[Coxy]

Shaw will be an excellent signing for you - just give him time. He was fantastic for southampton - just needs a run in your side.

The only thing bad about him is not knowing who tony adams was!

 

[Señor]

There's no doubt he's an amazing signing. He's one of the best left backs in the league already and he's only 19. Overpriced, yes, but he's an amazing talent. If we can get close to 10 years out of him (like we got with Rooney and Rio), he'd have been well worth his £27m fee.

 

[Manucho the boss]

There's no doubt he's an amazing signing. He's one of the best left backs in the league already and he's only 19. Overpriced, yes, but he's an amazing talent. If we can get close to 10 years out of him (like we got with Rooney and Rio), he'd have been well worth his £27m fee.

Agreed, but at the risk of being pedantic I think we'd have to pay Southampton the reported extra £8m if he's here for 10 years. Still would be well worth it.

 

[Kag]

Any theories on why he's been dropped back down to the England u21's?

Regular game time is good as he doesn't look naturally the fittest lad but I'd have expected him to push on and be challenging Baines who is starting to fade.

Because he has only played one and a half games so far this season, while Baines and Gibbs are match fit and playing regularly. Plus the Croatia match was an important one for the younger age group. It was a good call from Hodgson and Southgate. It means he's got 180 minutes against better opposition than the 45 he may have got against San Marino. He'll be back in the main set up soon enough.

 

[mufcwarm92]

I think it's a good idea to give him some time in the u21s. He wouldn't be starting just yet, England have a player of similar calibre in Gibbs and at left back it's unlikely he'd be used much as a sub. He will play every game at u21 level, will be one of the best players and has something to really work towards in the knowledge that Baines is on his way down.

 

[Moonred]

He is exactly what i thought he would be, loads of talent but lack of experience has caused mistakes. He will learn, he is very young and the price tag will be justified in years time and not in the first few matches.

 

[Sammyjunn]

I think it's a good idea to give him some time in the u21s. He wouldn't be starting just yet, England have a player of similar calibre in Gibbs and at left back it's unlikely he'd be used much as a sub. He will play every game at u21 level, will be one of the best players and has something to really work towards in the knowledge that Baines is on his way down.

Gibbs similar calibre? Maybe now Shaw has just turned fit and hasnt got his form yet, but normally Gibbs isn't his level.

 

[Damien]

united_99 reminds me a bit of kietotheworld/MaroonPondlife.

He's not had the opportunity to play much this season due to injury, and when he has he's largely done well. Judge him after a few weeks/a month or two once he's got that run of games.

 

[Crackers]

united_99 reminds me a bit of kietotheworld/MaroonPondlife.

He's not had the opportunity to play much this season due to injury, and when he has he's largely done well. Judge him after a few weeks/a month or two once he's got that run of games.

United99 or Shaw?

 

[mufcwarm92]

Gibbs similar calibre? Maybe now Shaw has just turned fit and hasnt got his form yet, but normally Gibbs isn't his level.

I think that's probably about right, and Shaw has a much higher cieling. But right now, they're a similar level for me.

 

[Black Adder]

Just read about his great gesture after Croatia U21 vs England U21 match recently played here in Croatia.

He promised his shirt to little kid who was staying before him while national anthems played, and after the match when people started to head home he just stepped out of the dressing room asking them about kid who was with him.

After they found him, he gave him his shirt and all while being friendly and nice to everyone around.

Nice from him, showing he's grounded enough to make an effort for someone like that little kid.

Oh, and not bad LB as well.

 

[Señor]

Agreed, but at the risk of being pedantic I think we'd have to pay Southampton the reported extra £8m if he's here for 10 years. Still would be well worth it.

Wait, what? Where did you get that from?

 

[MDFC Manager]

united_99 reminds me a bit of kietotheworld/MaroonPondlife.

He's not had the opportunity to play much this season due to injury, and when he has he's largely done well. Judge him after a few weeks/a month or two once he's got that run of games.

Don't think he's on that level...yet. Them two were on another level of spackery all together

 

[Manucho the boss]

Wait, what? Where did you get that from?

Widely reported at the time of the transfer, £27m rising to £35m I think it was based on appearance related extras.

I don't think we have to worry about that, if he makes that many appearances for us then he must be doing something right, still money well spent.

 

[Damien]

Widely reported at the time of the transfer, £27m rising to £35m I think it was based on appearance related extras.

I don't think we have to worry about that, if he makes that many appearances for us then he must be doing something right, still money well spent.

£27m rising to £28m in performance based bonuses: http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/fee-luke-shaw-revealed-manchester-3779639

 

[Señor]

Widely reported at the time of the transfer, £27m rising to £35m I think it was based on appearance related extras.

I don't think we have to worry about that, if he makes that many appearances for us then he must be doing something right, still money well spent.

£27m rising to £28m in performance based bonuses: http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/fee-luke-shaw-revealed-manchester-3779639

Yep, that's the first I've ever heard of a £35m fee. I'm 99% sure that it's the fee that Damien posted. Well that was the fee that was widely reported at the time, not £35m as you've said.

 

[Manucho the boss]

Yeah maybe I got the fee wrong but I knew I'd read about appearance related increases to the fee. Here's a more recent article with the added bonus of it not being the Mirror.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...e-bad-long-term-impact-says-Paul-Scholes.html

 

[Rossa]

I'm a little disappointed with this lad thus far. He's too one-dimensional in his attacking play. He constantly hugs the touchline and pretty much runs in a straight line down the wing - not even sure he's that fast, tbh. With Evra, you knew that he could cut inside leaving masses of space for the winger and creating a two against one in the middle. Shaw's passing is a little simple as well. I'm sure he's a great prospect, but for the first goal, Evra would have been slaughtered on here. Other than that, he looks a great defender.

 

[Godfather]

Not good at all today. Shaky defensively, at fault for their first goal and shite going forward

 

[Mister_Stubbs]

Needs to get back to the freedom he was playing with at Southampton, he looks as if he has been told to be a bit more disciplined which is ruining his game.

 

[footballgirl07]

I'm a little disappointed with this lad thus far. He's too one-dimensional in his attacking play. He constantly hugs the touchline and pretty much runs in a straight line down the wing - not even sure he's that fast, tbh. With Evra, you knew that he could cut inside leaving masses of space for the winger and creating a two against one in the middle. Shaw's passing is a little simple as well. I'm sure he's a great prospect, but for the first goal, Evra would have been slaughtered on here. Other than that, he looks a great defender.

I am hoping it is just the step up nerves between SOU and united and he will get over it with more game time. Was at fault for the first goal and like you said, just did not offer enough in the attacking sense.