[walsh]

I don't actually understand how he can be out of shape though. He wasn;t injured last season, went to the world cup, then had about a week's holiday afterwards. How the hell has he managed to get out of shape?

A tweet earlier mentioned that Shaw spent the day training alone trying to improve his beating of a man and crossing, are we sure the press aren't putting two and two together? Or has LVG actually confirmed it?

Literally said the words "he's not fit."

It is rather surprising, considering he also played the last game England played in the WC. Maybe now that he and Valencia will be our main wing-backs for the forseeable, LVG has realised Valencia is a monster and Shaw isn't quite on the same level

 

[J-Stander]

Bit weird as he didn't have much of a break after the World Cup, and you'd assume players would come back from that in pretty good shape.

 

[walsh]

Bit weird as he didn't have much of a break after the World Cup, and you'd assume players would come back from that in pretty good shape.

He probably is in 'pretty good shape' but van Gaal sees the wing-backs as the truly 'specialised' position in this system we're using. He wants something extra from the players who play in those roles, the fact he used Kuyt there in the WC shows just how fit and willing he wants wing-backs to be.

 

[Damien]

This is a thread in the newbies which I wish I could delete from the interwebs and slap @Grinner. I predict that'll be getting some bumping with this latest news

 

[jason93]

This was a "board" transfer. Not a Van Gaal transfer. Van Gaal probably wants to use James as his LWB considering he's been more impressive in pre season than Shaw.

Shaw as a LB might be solid... however Shaw as a LWB (right now) won't work. He's too defensive.

I think this is what LVG was talking about when he said he might not cope well under the "commercial" pressure and such. The board might pressure him into using the 30m pound man. I'm not saying it will happen but they're not gonna be happy if he uses someone else there.

 

[walsh]

This was a "board" transfer. Not a Van Gaal transfer. Van Gaal probably wants to use James as his LWB considering he's been more impressive in pre season than Shaw.

Shaw as a LB might be solid... however Shaw as a LWB (right now) won't work. He's too defensive.

I think this is what LVG was talking about when he said he might not cope well under the "commercial" pressure and such. The board might pressure him into using the 30m pound man. I'm not saying it will happen but they're not gonna be happy if he uses someone else there.

Don't know which bit of this post is the worst

 

[jason93]

Don't know which bit of this post is the worst

? You can't argue that James has been better than Shaw in pre season. He is a natural wingback and he's 20 now. He's ready.

 

[walsh]

? You can't argue that James has been better than Shaw in pre season. He is a natural wingback and he's 20 now. He's ready.

There is no way on this earth that James will be ahead of Shaw in the pecking order. The nonsense about the board trying to tell van Gaal who to pick is just nonsensical.

 

[Melvyn]

This was a "board" transfer. Not a Van Gaal transfer. Van Gaal probably wants to use James as his LWB considering he's been more impressive in pre season than Shaw.

Shaw as a LB might be solid... however Shaw as a LWB (right now) won't work. He's too defensive.

I think this is what LVG was talking about when he said he might not cope well under the "commercial" pressure and such. The board might pressure him into using the 30m pound man. I'm not saying it will happen but they're not gonna be happy if he uses someone else there.

Oh yes let's make judgements based on two preseason games and ignore the fact that Shaw has been playing in the PL consistently for two seasons already.

 

[Melvyn]

This is a thread in the newbies which I wish I could delete from the interwebs and slap @Grinner. I predict that'll be getting some bumping with this latest news

Why does Grinner have to be slapped?

 

[walsh]

Why does Grinner have to be slapped?

He 'liked' the post.

 

[Lynk]

Ouch, I'm not liking how Van Gaal publicly criticizes the players.

 

[jason93]

There is no way on this earth that James will be ahead of Shaw in the pecking order. The nonsense about the board trying to tell van Gaal who to pick is just nonsensical.

Not really. Van Gaal didn't sign Shaw. Would you be happy if you made a big marquee signing and the manager had him sitting on the bench? Probably not. There's been tons of instances where the board try to influence the managers decisions. It happens all the time at Madrid.

 

[FromTheBench]

Why would the board force Van Gaal to sign Shaw for 30 million when he was happy with James for free ?

Not really. Van Gaal didn't sign Shaw. Would you be happy if you made a big marquee signing and the manager had him sitting on the bench? Probably not. There's been tons of instances where the board try to influence the managers decisions. It happens all the time at Madrid.

Yep, he did. He confirmed himself that he gave approval. So did Giggs saying they along with Chief scout went over players at club and targets.

 

[walsh]

Not really. Van Gaal didn't sign Shaw. Would you be happy if you made a big marquee signing and the manager had him sitting on the bench? Probably not. There's been tons of instances where the board try to influence the managers decisions. It happens all the time at Madrid.

Judging football clubs in large by what Madrid do is pointless. What kind of board that wanted to influence team selection would appoint Louis van Gaal as the manager? Think how that conversation would go. Besides, van Gaal already stated that both signings were completed with his approval.

 

[Grinner]

This is a thread in the newbies which I wish I could delete from the interwebs and slap @Grinner. I predict that'll be getting some bumping with this latest news

I liked it because it was well-written. As bonkers as it might be, we're in the business of promoting potential, not just those who we agree with.

 

[Rykker_4united]

This was a "board" transfer. Not a Van Gaal transfer. Van Gaal probably wants to use James as his LWB considering he's been more impressive in pre season than Shaw.

Shaw as a LB might be solid... however Shaw as a LWB (right now) won't work. He's too defensive.

I think this is what LVG was talking about when he said he might not cope well under the "commercial" pressure and such. The board might pressure him into using the 30m pound man. I'm not saying it will happen but they're not gonna be happy if he uses someone else there.

wum. again.

 

[Brightonian]

Not really. Van Gaal didn't sign Shaw. Would you be happy if you made a big marquee signing and the manager had him sitting on the bench? Probably not. There's been tons of instances where the board try to influence the managers decisions. It happens all the time at Madrid.

Yes, at Madrid, the most famously 'circus' club in the world. Not at United, one of the most 'hands off, let the manager do his job' clubs in the world.

Van Gaal has already confirmed that he checked Shaw and Herrera and agreed to the signings before we got them.

 

[Rykker_4united]

I liked it because it was well-written. As bonkers as it might be, we're in the business of promoting potential, not just those who we agree with.

how democratic of you

 

[Grinner]

how democratic of you

I know, I even gave you 2 likes when you were down in the bowels.

 

[Amadaeus]

This is a thread in the newbies which I wish I could delete from the interwebs and slap @Grinner. I predict that'll be getting some bumping with this latest news

1 assist in two season? He looked much better than that output last season. Early times, but their are sign of Shaws being a bad investment.

 

[jason93]

Van Gaal wasn't going to NOT approve him, was he? They were desperate for Luke Shaw. They wanted a big young English talent and they were willing to give that much money for him. Van Gaal likely never heard of him prior to the knowledge they gave him. So he approved it cause he didn't want to step on anyone's toes before getting settled into the job.

I'm just going by what I think here. Van Gaal wants to play 352 and 5212. It seems a little strange that he'd pick a stocky defensive LB that only has one assist to his name, as opposed to a defensive tricky winger like say... Cuadrado for example, no? Approving the deal doesn't necessarily means he signed him. It just means he's willing to work with him. He probably thinks he'll make him better but I doubt he's his IDEAL LB.

Daley Blind probably is. Realistically.

 

[Rykker_4united]

I know, I even gave you 2 likes when you were down in the bowels.

shocking that , but i remember and appreciate it

 

[Brightonian]

1 assist in two season? He looked much better than that output last season. Early times, but their are sign of Shaws being a bad investment.

Oh my sweet fecking lord.

And it's *THERE. If you're going to write nonsense at least write it properly.

 

[Brightonian]

wum. again.

I genuinely just thought he was a terrible poster at first. But it's the sheer consistency of bollocks he comes out with. Not sure I've seen one sensible post.

 

[Rykker_4united]

We need to focus less on the price and more on the potential the player has. He was fantastic at Southampton over the last 2 years and no one can deny that. What he is now is a 19 year old at a massive club, and he's only played 90 minutes total. He hasn't been excellent but he hasn't been poor either. Its very likely that he'll get better throughout the season and ultimately in the future, as he ages.

 

[Rykker_4united]

I genuinely just thought he was a terrible poster at first. But it's the sheer consistency of bollocks he comes out with. Not sure I've seen one sensible post.

He was wumming in the fellaini thread only a couple hours ago and its not even close to being believable.

 

[walsh]

I think someone being written off as a bad signing after two 45 minute pre-season performances is a new record?

 

[Amadaeus]

Oh my sweet fecking lord.

And it's *THERE. If you're going to write nonsense at least write it properly.

Thanks for the spell check. I did not say he is going to be a bad investment.

 

[Brightonian]

Aside from the two goals, he's really not even done anything differently from James, who everyone's suddenly hyping to high heaven (mostly people who've never even watched him before this summer).

In the Roma game they put in fairly similar performances. Mostly struggled to get forward because we're still working out how to use that position effectively, but didn't put a foot wrong defensively. Only difference was the last ten or so minutes when Shaw started to get higher up his wing and look quite dangerous.

And against LA Galaxy, again, both had an easy job well executed defensively, and couldn't make much progress up their wings. Exceptions being James' very well-taken goals and two attacks right at the start of the game which got between Shaw and Evans, a problem they and Herrera quickly corrected after which Galaxy got no more joy down that wing.

So James was better in the first game thanks to the goals, and they were the same in the second. But suddenly people are worrying about Shaw?

Thanks for the spell check. I did not say he is going to be a bad investment.

You said there are signs. I've not seen any. I'm not sure it's even possible to see signs of anything in two 45-minute spells. In a new team. In a new (and currently problematic) position. Given the circumstances I've actually been fairly pleased with him, but arguably that's also an unfounded conclusion based on so little evidence.

 

[Jed I. Knight]

Some ridiculous ply premature statements being thrown around here regarding Shaw. He's a very young and very talented footballer, he'll become a mainstay in our side before long, in one position or another.

That said, if LvG feels that James (or anyone else, for that matter) is a better fit for the LWB position at any point in the coming season, you can be sure that he'll be picked there ahead of Shaw. If anyone actually doubts that, they surely can't be familiar with LvG's past history? Just look at who he benched at Bayern for (then) "no-name youngsters". He doesn't care one iota about price tags or reputation.

 

[Adnan]

Shaw will develop his attacking game further under LVG. He already has the pace and from what i've seen from him at Southampton, he has the dribbling skills but is alittle raw in that department just yet.

LVG I would presume will go with his favoured 4-3-3 once he gets the personnel that he desires and that will work in Shaw's favour and United too.

 

[Bojan11]

They hyping James because he's from the academy and cost nothing. Where as Shaws price tag will be used against him.

I did say that the Rodriguez links were not surprising a few days ago.

 

[Amadaeus]

Aside from the two goals, he's really not even done anything differently from James, who everyone's suddenly hyping to high heaven (mostly people who've never even watched him before this summer).

In the Roma game they put in fairly similar performances. Mostly struggled to get forward because we're still working out how to use that position effectively, but didn't put a foot wrong defensively. Only difference was the last ten or so minutes when Shaw started to get higher up his wing and look quite dangerous.

And against LA Galaxy, again, both had an easy job well executed defensively, and couldn't make much progress up their wings. Exceptions being James' very well-taken goals and two attacks right at the start of the game which got between Shaw and Evans, a problem they and Herrera quickly corrected after which Galaxy got no more joy down that wing.

So James was better in the first game thanks to the goals, and they were the same in the second. But suddenly people are worrying about Shaw?



You said there are signs. I've not seen any. I'm not sure it's even possible to see signs of anything in two 45-minute spells. In a new team. In a new (and currently problematic) position. Given the circumstances I've actually been fairly pleased with him, but arguably that's also an unfounded conclusion based on so little evidence.

The one assist in two shows lack of influence in the attack half of the pitch, his high wages could lead to a lack of motivation to perform on the pitch, his current conditioning that Van Gaal supposedly criticized and the lack of adaptation to a new system which Young, James, valencia and even Rafael looks more comfortable in. Although, the latter their is really no need for him to impress immediately like Herrera or even James or Blackett if talking about similiar positional role. These are the signs I have seen, albeit it is does not overshadow the excellent season he had last term. Which is why I said their are signs of him being a bad investment, not that he is going to be a bad investment.

 

[Brightonian]

The one assist in two shows lack of influence in the attack half of the pitch

Not if you actually watched him. He started so many attacks for them. And he was also incredibly unlucky not to get far more assists like that - in match after match strikers were fumbling pinpoint crosses from him which should have been put away. But at least his form for Southampton is something you can actually make a judgement on, unlike his tiny amount of experimental pre-season football for us so far, so this one at least isn't completely ridiculous.

His high wages could lead to a lack of motivation to perform on the pitch.

Could, but absolutely no sign of it so far, so this is a meaningless statement. RVP could become lazy and entitled because he thinks Van Gaal will naturally favour him.

His current conditioning that Van Gaal supposedly criticized and the lack of adaptation to a new system which Young, James, valencia and even Rafael looks more comfortable in.

No, they haven't.

-Young has just gone on and played how he always does, as a winger, and fair play to him. Not been great, but finished the chances Herrera created for him confidently in the first game.
-Valencia has been the worst of all of them so far, definitely worse than Shaw. Given the ball away far too often.
-The only thing James has done better, as I explained in detail in an earlier post, is score the goals. Which were very well taken, but didn't have much to do with how well/badly he is adapting to the position. This isn't a criticism of James - in the context, I think both he and Shaw have been quite good.
-Rafa barely played 45 minutes, too short a time to see much of anything from him really.

So no signs. If you don't rate him that highly based on his Southampton seasons, fair enough, that's your prerogative. If you think £27m is too much to have paid for him, likewise. But any signs that he's a 'bad investment' from this pre-season are in your head.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

This is a thread in the newbies which I wish I could delete from the interwebs and slap @Grinner. I predict that'll be getting some bumping with this latest news

Mother of God.

 

[Amadaeus]

You forgot to adress his conditioning that Van Gaal criticized. And, I believe the players aforementioned looked to have adopted to this system moreso than Shaw. But, it is a matter of your opinion versus mine. So, I am not overly bothered by that point.

I rate him, which is why I praised the season he had last term, but at the moment, he is looks like he is playing in a shell at United

 

[Bojan11]

You forgot to adress his conditioning that Van Gaal criticized. And, I believe the players aforementioned looked to have adopted to this system moreso than Shaw. But, it is a matter of your opinion versus mine. So, I am not overly bothered by that point.

I rate him, which is why I praised the season he had last term, but at the moment, he is looks like he is playing in a shell at United

He has played like 90 mins of football and you are saying he is playing in a shell?

 

[Amadaeus]

He has played like 90 mins of football and you are saying he is playing in a shell?

Yea, one of the few players that I have seen so far that has more to give and could do much better.

 

[Brightonian]

He has played like 90 mins of football and you are saying he is playing in a shell?

Yea, one of the few players that I have seen so far that has more to give and could do much better.

Ok, we'd best leave you to that opinion now then.

On the fitness thing, I've had a look at some photos of him from training and the two games, and he looks perfectly trim. I think we're talking the sort of fitness issue where he just doesn't feel fully fit and at his peak, and they'll fine tune that over the next week or so with this personal programme LVG mentioned.