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But Fellaini's goals include the following:
-The goal to seal UCL qualification against Palace.
-The goal in the derby against City(which at the time meant we went into the lead, and at that point where 2nd in the league)
-goal in the UCL qualifier in the 90th minute meaning that we had an easier 2nd tie rather than being under pressure going in with just a 1 goal lead.
- A goal in the Quarter finals of the fa cup.
He tends to perform when it really matters. For a side that rarely scores, that has been a positive for us big time. Yet people simply refuse to see that, or when they do give him any compliment, its always the "he did well, but..(insert whatever Fellaini cliche'" here)
Except that the last 3 years we have played awfully while finishing 7th, 4th and 5th. So yeah all is good..
After a while you just have to laugh at people shielding a player who is the epitome of our decline.
They should.Listen mate read some of my other posts on Fellaini i have no problem giving Fellaini praise for his good performances. But it is constantly repeated in here that he has contributed more than other players for no reason. It's debatable if that is even true.
But surely if Fellaini has been such an important player for us then then his contributions can be discussed on their own merit.
Maybe you should. Herrera wasn't a MOTM in either of those games. And yeah, there's usually 1 'absolute MOTM' in a match so it's pretty weird scale to measure a player by, would render the other 21 players plus subs on the pitch useless.Maybe you should watch these games again. Its one thing to score and another one being the absolute MOTM. Now tell me in which games has Fellaini being the best player. For me its no coincedence that the periods that Fellaini has been a starter for us and Belgium both have been atrocious. Watch the game vs PSV. In the first half we were better then he enters and we could not create a chance. Belgium-Wales was 1-. 15 minutes after his entrance was 3-1 with him being humiliated by Kanu. Most of the games he has started we have been atrocious. 2,3 good games vs the mighty Bournemouth or the amazing Crystal Palace after 3 years is not enough imo to justify his staying for another season. I m sure we still have a really negative win/lose ratio when he plays.
As I said wanting Herrera to be replaced by a better player is logical. But Herrera and even Cleverley have offered more than Fellaini.
I really disagree with this kind of comparisons. Are we now to say that Herrera's goal are pointless? Perform when it really matters? We've been under the cosh since Fergie left, since when has it not mattered? For a player that has been mainly deployed in a deeper position, that goal return is way better.But Fellaini's goals include the following:
-The goal to seal UCL qualification against Palace.
-The goal in the derby against City(which at the time meant we went into the lead, and at that point where 2nd in the league)
-goal in the UCL qualifier in the 90th minute meaning that we had an easier 2nd tie rather than being under pressure going in with just a 1 goal lead.
- A goal in the Quarter finals of the fa cup.
He tends to perform when it really matters. For a side that rarely scores, that has been a positive for us big time. Yet people simply refuse to see that, or when they do give him any compliment, its always the "he did well, but..(insert whatever Fellaini cliche'" here)
This post is so wrong I don't even know where to begin.Amazing revisionism here. Some think that Fellaini has actually offered something to this club (its the right of course) Fellaini has been a starter for several periods. This year since December which "coinceded" of us being eliminated in CL and from second going to fifth. He has been 3 years here so dont understand the comparison with Morgan and BS. I would prefer to keep them not because they have offered more but because they are better players.
Herrera has been cold and hot. He was the reason why we managed to be 4th at 14-15. Last year he was amazingly awful esp in the second term. But the most dominant wins of the last 2 years are because of Herrera. 4-2 vs City, 0-3 vs Everton, 3-2 vs Arsenal 3-0 vs the spurs. Wanting to sell Herrera to get a better player like veratti or pogba its logical. Saying that Fellaini has offered more its laughable.
I dont even get the: but fellaini plays with passion. Elbowing people its not passion. Rooney is playing with passion but he is not capable of playing for a big team anymore. How many times has Fellaini not tracked back? Our decline last year began with Fellaini entering vs PSV at the second half and then being a starter for the rest of the season. The same with Belgium. He palyed 100 minutes and they conceded 3 goals and didnt create a chance.
Where does your definition of effective come from? Consider last season:Fellaini's strength is his physical presence, but his size makes him look clumsy. Mata, for instance, is easier on the eyes, but only marginally more effective due to his lack of physical strength and pace.
That said, I don't think he's getting any better. This is as good as it's going to get.
Do you then believe lingard was more effective than januzaj in his first season? Because the stats would indicate thatWhere does your definition of effective come from? Consider last season:
41 ÷ 16 = 2.7
- Mata: 11 goals, and 11 assists in 54 appearances. A goal or assist in 41% of appearances
- Fellaini: 4 goals, plus 1 assist in 33 appearances. A goal or assist in 16% of appearances
Mata is 2.7 times more effective than Fellaini.
Why are we talking about Januzaj and Lingard in the Fellaini performance thread? I'll answer your question in the appropriate thread if you insist.Do you then believe lingard was more effective than januzaj in his first season? Because the stats would indicate that
Thanks for the correction.No he isn't. Contract expires in 2018
Then where would he be best suited? Back to Everton?Moyes can hint all he likes, but the idea of Fellaini playing for Sunderland is unthinkable. Man United may not be the team most suited to him, but no fecking way should he be slumbing it at Sunderland.
He was. Januzaj was very good for us but it was over hyped given his age. Lingard probably won't cut it as a big player for us since he's 24, but he had more of an end product than Januzaj.Do you then believe lingard was more effective than januzaj in his first season? Because the stats would indicate that
Using the infamous Troy Deeney benchmark I'd like a bit more for him. The sky money has changed things and he is the sort of player that could make a huge difference at a bottom half of the table club. Also he's a Belgium international.Not against him staying or going. But I think we should get around £18m for him, not the nonsense prices I'm seeing. Moyes should be made to pay for his mistake.
As a squad option, he has his uses though. His stupid elbows cost us a place in the CL I reckon, as I don't believe we'd have lost against West Ham if he was playing, which he would have if not for his thuggery.
Why exactly? He's too big for Sunderland or a manager like Moyes cannot appreciate his unique still set or match his lofty ambitions?Moyes can hint all he likes, but the idea of Fellaini playing for Sunderland is unthinkable. Man United may not be the team most suited to him, but no fecking way should he be slumbing it at Sunderland.
I don't really think there is a Troy Deeney benchmark. Deeney would jus represent a player who is not for sale, hence all bids being rejected, while I imagine we are open to decent offers for Fellaini. He would certainly go for less than Deeney, they have far different status for their respective teams.Using the infamous Troy Deeney benchmark I'd like a bit more for him. The sky money has changed things and he is the sort of player that could make a huge difference at a bottom half of the table club. Also he's a Belgium international.
Just to clarify something; the comment you did about everton suggests that you believe that a midfielder has to assist or score for you to be considered as an acceptable perfomance. It also suggests that you believed that Herrera played mediocre at that game.This post is so wrong I don't even know where to begin.
Ok no I know exactly where to begin. None of those wins were because of Herrera. Ashley Young was the motm vs city in the 4-2 win, Fellaini was the motm in the 3-0 Spurs win, Everton win fine at least he assisted the third goal.
Either you are Herrera or you are his agent. You make it seem as if he is an in prime Xabi Alonso. He was the reason we were 4th?
Herrera was starting a lot of games even in 14-15. He started in the 2-1 loss to Swansea. Does that mean he is responsible for the loss? Actually we were in the top 4 since November that season and iirc Fellaini played a game first in October and played lots of games. So it's plain nonsense that we reached top 4 only after March. If anything, going by your logic we reached top 4 once Fellaini started.Just to clarify something; the comment you did about everton suggests that you believe that a midfielder has to assist or score for you to be considered as an acceptable perfomance. It also suggests that you believed that Herrera played mediocre at that game.
Either you have watched 10 football games in your whole life or you should just give up watching football.
Also, for me its not a coincidence that when Herrera started playing in 2015 (after being benched for a few months) we won against Lpool (where he assisted but in general was okayih right?) amd in the end we came 4th while before we were struggling and this year at the beggining we were in top 3 and then when Fellaini became a starter we ended 5th. The same happened with Belgium. I wonder why..
Ok so Fellaini played during December/January 8 games we won 2, draw 2 and lost 4. Until middle of january Fellaini's ratio was Won 2, Drawn 4, Lost 5 - 0.9 points/game, without him: Won 7, Drawn 3, Lost 0 - 2.4 points/game. Herrera will be a Nicky Butt. Decent player with great moments but if you have him as your main player you will be a top 2 team. Felllaini will always be the player that we you have him your lose ratio will be higher than your win. If you cant see it at United check it at Belgium. This year in CL was the same. For Moyes' Everton he was effective. For us too he will be effective if we are chasing a top-7 spot. For Belgium too if they are happy with just progressing from the groups. But if you want to move forward then there is only one place for him. Out of the stadium. I dont get the thing with man marking too. Usually the midfielders are not man marked for many reasons so by your logic fellaini is better than Scholes. I am sorry that i dont want midfielders that are man marked because they are tall and famous for their chest control. His defensives reactions as a box to box cm are the worst esp. if you are playing fast football. I agree he is useful when defending in the last minutes or throw him the last minutes for a header. But you dont keep a player just because he is useful in some games for a few minutes.Herrera was starting a lot of games even in 14-15. He started in the 2-1 loss to Swansea. Does that mean he is responsible for the loss? Actually we were in the top 4 since November that season and iirc Fellaini played a game first in October and played lots of games. So it's plain nonsense that we reached top 4 only after March. If anything, going by your logic we reached top 4 once Fellaini started.
Herrera played very well in those games but Fellaini was more effective. Mourinho put Zouma just to mark Fellaini out of the game, not Herrera clearly showing who it was that mourinho felt was more dangerous.
In 15/16 Fellaini played a little over 1000 minutes vs almost 1600 minutes for Herrera. Yet it's Fellaini s fault we were 5th? Herrera played most games in December end and January where he was hopeless as well.
Your post is so wrong. Lots of midfielders get marked. We marked pirlo with Park off the top of my head. Unless you think pirlo is also uselessOk so Fellaini played during December/January 8 games we won 2, draw 2 and lost 4. Until middle of january Fellaini's ratio was Won 2, Drawn 4, Lost 5 - 0.9 points/game, without him: Won 7, Drawn 3, Lost 0 - 2.4 points/game. Herrera will be a Nicky Butt. Decent player with great moments but if you have him as your main player you will be a top 2 team. Felllaini will always be the player that we you have him your lose ratio will be higher than your win. If you cant see it at United check it at Belgium. This year in CL was the same. For Moyes' Everton he was effective. For us too he will be effective if we are chasing a top-7 spot. For Belgium too if they are happy with just progressing from the groups. But if you want to move forward then there is only one place for him. Out of the stadium. I dont get the thing with man marking too. Usually the midfielders are not man marked for many reasons so by your logic fellaini is better than Scholes. I am sorry that i dont want midfielders that are man marked because they are tall and famous for their chest control. His defensives reactions as a box to box cm are the worst esp. if you are playing fast football. I agree he is useful when defending in the last minutes or throw him the last minutes for a header. But you dont keep a player just because he is useful in some games for a few minutes.
Sooo of course the one example of Pirlo in the last 100,000 games of Pirlo is your point? Its even worse because Pirlo and Fellaini were man marked for completely different reasons though i dont expect you to understand it of course.Your post is so wrong. Lots of midfielders get marked. We marked pirlo with Park off the top of my head. Unless you think pirlo is also useless
December we had tons of injury making Fellaini our only fit midfielder. We played CBJ varela Donald love and all in defence but yeah it's Fellaini s fault. It wouldn't have made any difference had Herrera played either as evidenced by Herrera's performance all season.
Nicky butt? You must be joking. Butt was a class player who struggled to keep his fitness. Herrera is a player who struggles to play well on a consistent basis. Having him in the team isn't going to improve us in anyway either.
The simple fact is he is a very good player to have and this is the third manager who has felt that. Clearly they know more than you do.
You are talking complete nonsense. You said no midfielders get marked I gave you one example proving your stupid post.Sooo of course the one example of Pirlo in the last 100,000 games of Pirlo is your point? Its even worse because Pirlo and Fellaini were man marked for completely different reasons though i dont expect you to understand it of course.
So in the 7/10 games that we have lost with Fellaini is because of Donald Love? I love it that you use one example to prove a point.
Butt was not a world class player. Butt was a really good player thats all. I m mot compairing their abilities but what they offer. Butt was an amazing player to have in the squad not to lead your line though for a team that wants to compete. Thats what i m saying with Herrera. We have seen his limits. I dont expect United to compete for Cl with Herrera as a mojor player. But thats completely different than having a player who has played in the 70% of our losses and "magically" is never his fault.
I m sure you are one of these who would take Fellaini over Di Maria. Hodgson LVG and Moyes trusted Rooney and look what happened so i guess we were all wrong and fergie too right? Ask Belgians about Wilmots and his cleverness to use Fellaini. Obviously it wasnt fellainis fault at kanus goal right? Clearly we are always wrong and the managers always right like Moyes and Hodgosn.
The simple fact that his ratio is bad and all of the teams he has played havent achieved anything with him for me proves a lot.
You just proved that you are both not capable of understanding football and reading too. I said usually midfielders are not man marked. Now I m not a native english speaker but i know what usually means. Also i guessed being instrumental in Athletico reaching the euro pa cup final is useless. I m not going to even read your whole post because there is no point continuing when you dont even understand the basics. And yes i remember Fellaini was instrumental in our loss vs lpool at europa which was btw one of the worst perfomances i have ever witnessedYou are talking complete nonsense. You said no midfielders get marked I gave you one example proving your stupid post.
And as far as Herrera is considered, he is an average player who is easily replaceable. Fellaini isn't world class by any means and won't be a starter but he is a better option to have especially based on his ability. Plus it would seem that depending on him to have performances is like depending on Donald trump to talk sense. Meaning it's a rarity.
You say Fellaini was involved in our loss. He was also responsible for many wins. In 14/15 home game Vs Stoke, away game vs crystal palace. In addition to excellent performances. For instance last Liverpool away game in January Herrera was completely useless and Fellaini was the only midfielder actually trying to play. No surprise that Rooney's winning goal was through him winning a header vs 4 Liverpool defenders. Fellaini is an excellent option to come on when we need a goal or when we need to defend.
Regarding the Robson goal, Firstly he wasn't the only one. There were genuine defenders who were at fault for the goal. It was a trick. A good one at that. Anderson has once nutmegged Fabregas does that really prove anything?Secondly as i said he isn't world class and it's not like he doesn't make mistakes. Even de gea had multiple mistakes in the euro and that Northern Ireland keeper was mostly solid. Does that mean we exchange de gea for him based on that one tournament? In the World Cup, Fellaini was instrumental in Belgium winning at least one game. If you go by the euro we would have to buy Robson Kanu instead of ibra.
And what has Herrera or Schneiderlin achieved with any clubs that they have played? Nothing at all. That's a stupid argument. At least Fellaini was very good in the cup games when we won the FA cup. Herrera has that winning goal in the Everton game.
I don't think anyone would take Fellaini over di Maria mainly because they are two separate position players. Your next question probably would be something like would I take Fellaini over de gea.
I don't think you actually know what you are talking about so maybe lets just leave it.
Do you think? Pretty average. I just don't like Carrick Fellaini CM pairing.Tbf he is playing well.
You are the only one think differently. Fellaini has been playing well.Do you think? Pretty average. I just don't like Carrick Fellaini CM pairing.
It's not ideal but Herrera and Schneiderlin don't really deserve to start ahead of him. Pogba will likely take Fellaini's place.New manager and he's still in CM. What's the dealio?
