[lex talionis]

Because Mount is useless in the role he is supposed to play?

More useless than McTominay? That’s a cruel accusation.

 

[Kostov]

More useless than McTominay? That’s a cruel accusation.

Yeah it's cruel for all involved, but he is no CM, and that's the beginning and end of the matter.

He hasn't really played enough to settle in order to be sure of this

Nothing is sure, but from what we have seen so far in his career and his short time here, he is not suited for that role.

I know we've been shipping chances for fun (and it might well get worse) but I am sort of intrigued as to how things would go if we replaced McT for Mount. That ultimately was the plan and while I wouldn't have much confidence in it, we've only seen Bruno and Mount start centrally in what, 3 or 4 games?

Do we really always have to try something for 2 years straight in order to see it's not working? Mount and Bruno will never work as a consistent duo in a 3 men midfield partnership, and that will not change even if we had prime Casemiro.

 

[lex talionis]

McTominay is no midfielder. On his day he’s a striker, although a very limited one.

Mount is a midfielder. How good of a midfielder is up for debate, but McTominay is nowhere near the class of Mount as a midfielder, no matter hard he’s been trying for the last five years.

 

[SAF is the GOAT]

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[RedRonaldo]

How long has he been out injured? Haven’t seen him for a while, not that we have been missing him on the pitch at all but just wondering.

 

[Grande]

How long has he been out injured? Haven’t seen him for a while, not that we have been missing him on the pitch at all but just wondering.

I think Erik said this week he was back on grass, but not ready to be in a squad yet.

 

[gza the genius]

Honestly forgot he played for us. Great debut season so far.

 

[Ali Dia]

If he comes into any kind of good form he’ll be like a new signing!

The bar isn’t high but I think he’ll be much better in the second half of the season. He’ll eventually take McTs position and hopefully it will help us play better football and control the game better.

 

[DanClancy]

Is he back in the squad tomorrow?

 

[TheReligion]

Is he back in the squad tomorrow?

i hope so

 

[TheReligion]

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Good lad

 

[Cloud7]

Is he back in the squad tomorrow?

The question is, where does he come in? I know we might joke about it and what not, but McT is legitimately our biggest goal threat right now. If he comes out someone needs to pick up the scoring. I suppose the hope would be that with someone who is better at the midfielder stuff than McT is that the forwards or Bruno will be able to get among the goals, but there's no way to be sure of that right now.

 

[TheReligion]

The question is, where does he come in? I know we might joke about it and what not, but McT is legitimately our biggest goal threat right now. If he comes out someone needs to pick up the scoring. I suppose the hope would be that with someone who is better at the midfielder stuff than McT is that the forwards or Bruno will be able to get among the goals, but there's no way to be sure of that right now.

His position will be that of Mctominay but if he should come in or not right now is another question.

Off the bench I suggest.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

I really hope we find a way for him to work in the side without the midfield being totally open.

He is one of the best players on our books. Frustrating debut season so far.

 

[Cloud7]

His position will be that of Mctominay but if he should come in or not right now is another question.

Off the bench I suggest.

Yeah this is my question really. When is the best time to actually try to bring him in. I do feel like we are in a bad spot right now without McT, which is not a sentence I ever thought I would have to say.

 

[TheReligion]

Yeah this is my question really. When is the best time to actually try to bring him in. I do feel like we are in a bad spot right now without McT, which is not a sentence I ever thought I would have to say.

I’m sure Mounts role will be to play with Bruno to press through the middle high up.

He is better with the ball than Mctominay and does have a goal threat.

 

[Borys]

The question is, where does he come in? I know we might joke about it and what not, but McT is legitimately our biggest goal threat right now. If he comes out someone needs to pick up the scoring. I suppose the hope would be that with someone who is better at the midfielder stuff than McT is that the forwards or Bruno will be able to get among the goals, but there's no way to be sure of that right now.

Nowhere.
There is no point in playing him ahead of McTominay in second striker role. He is NOT going to score more goals than Scott.

The only way Mount plays (apart from some short cameos of cours) is ETH switches to more control-based approach and we have 2 midfielders (CDM + 1 with Bruno in #10). But that isn't happening anytime soon IMO, we are in "Fellaini conundrum" now. Can't control game with McTominay, can't score goals without him.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I think the Mctominay role will suit him also.

 

[kundalini]

I’m sure Mounts role will be to play with Bruno to press through the middle high up.

He is better with the ball than Mctominay and does have a goal threat.

In 3 of his 4 seasons at Chelsea, Mount's goals + assists per 90 PL mins, was way below McTominay's current rate. Even if you view Scott's threat as unsustainable, there is only Mason's 2021/2 season that would suggest he would offer more in terms of goals + assists.

I don't follow Chelsea that closely but can see from his shot map on Understat, that he scored 2 free-kicks and 2 penalties in the PL. Don't know if he took corners and wide free-kicks. A fair chunk of his contribution at Chelsea will be stuff that Fernandes does at United. Hard to score penalties and free-kicks if someone else is taking them.

When you take out pens and free-kicks, Mason had 3 seasons in which he scored/assist about every 300 PL mins and one season in which he was just about every 120 PL mins.

His fee and salary make sense if you think his best Chelsea season is what he would produce at United, the other seasons not at all clear why we bothered to buy him.

 

[NoPace]

I really hope we find a way for him to work in the side without the midfield being totally open.

He is one of the best players on our books. Frustrating debut season so far.

It’s difficult to see how he and Bruno start together unless we move to a diamond or 3/5 at the back, which we won’t.

I think his role is Bruno’s backup, an attacking option at #8 when we’re chasing a game.

The odd start with Bruno against weaker teams at home when we can play 4-1-4-1.

 

[Red Royal]

It’s difficult to see how he and Bruno start together unless we move to a diamond or 3/5 at the back, which we won’t.

I think his role is Bruno’s backup, an attacking option at #8 when we’re chasing a game.

The odd start with Bruno against weaker teams at home when we can play 4-1-4-1.

If/when Bruno gets his 5th booking and banned from the next game, will be interesting to see a midfield of Amrabat, Mainoo and Mount... just not vs Liverpool please.

 

[Teja]

Nowhere.
There is no point in playing him ahead of McTominay in second striker role. He is NOT going to score more goals than Scott.

The only way Mount plays (apart from some short cameos of cours) is ETH switches to more control-based approach and we have 2 midfielders (CDM + 1 with Bruno in #10). But that isn't happening anytime soon IMO, we are in "Fellaini conundrum" now. Can't control game with McTominay, can't score goals without him.

He's going to offer better passing / ball carrying. There are many times where McT simply hides / just passes back when he drops deep when he should be turning and carrying the ball forward / passing it forward.

McT offers extra physicality (height, strength), better goal scoring and more defensive solidity but sacrifices passing, ball carrying, pressing high up.

EDIT

I guess given we have too many midfield combinations, if we say Amrabat, Bruno and one of McT / Mount, who do you think should get in? Let's ignore current form and try to reason from first principles given both players' skillsets.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

If/when Bruno gets his 5th booking and banned from the next game, will be interesting to see a midfield of Amrabat, Mainoo and Mount... just not vs Liverpool please.

I love Bruno and think he's our best individual player but I think this might be the midfield to let us actually control games and be a much better side. Casemiro back in when fit.

Won't happen

 

[TheReligion]

In 3 of his 4 seasons at Chelsea, Mount's goals + assists per 90 PL mins, was way below McTominay's current rate. Even if you view Scott's threat as unsustainable, there is only Mason's 2021/2 season that would suggest he would offer more in terms of goals + assists.

I don't follow Chelsea that closely but can see from his shot map on Understat, that he scored 2 free-kicks and 2 penalties in the PL. Don't know if he took corners and wide free-kicks. A fair chunk of his contribution at Chelsea will be stuff that Fernandes does at United. Hard to score penalties and free-kicks if someone else is taking them.

When you take out pens and free-kicks, Mason had 3 seasons in which he scored/assist about every 300 PL mins and one season in which he was just about every 120 PL mins.

His fee and salary make sense if you think his best Chelsea season is what he would produce at United, the other seasons not at all clear why we bothered to buy him.

That’s interesting. Do the figures change much if you include all competitions as I note you’ve capped it at PL?

 

[TheReligion]

He's going to offer better passing / ball carrying. There are many times where McT simply hides / just passes back when he drops deep when he should be turning and carrying the ball forward / passing it forward.

McT offers extra physicality (height, strength), better goal scoring and more defensive solidity but sacrifices passing, ball carrying, pressing high up.

EDIT

I guess given we have too many midfield combinations, if we say Amrabat, Bruno and one of McT / Mount, who do you think should get in? Let's ignore current form and try to reason from first principles given both players' skillsets.

You have Casemiro and Mainoo too (and Eriksen)

It’s a bit of a puzzle.

 

[Jeffthered]

Eriksen, Mount and Bruno rotate that spot off the No 9. None of them can really play anywhere else. I am not sure why ETH put himself, the players and the club in that situation. And I still consider Mount a very good player, but whether we will see that under ETH, I doubt and that's a shame. We need v good home-grown players alongside the global talent. All clubs need that. Ericksen probably wants to play as much football as possible, and rightly so after what he went through, so I hope that's sorted.

 

[uwotm8]

This is how ETH tried to set us up at the beginning of the season. 3 high energy pressing attackers, bruno , mount (McTom in this role for now), DM with the full backs covering in theory.

It's very ambitious but will it actually work? Or will we get sliced open and punished?

 

[Belisarius]

If/when Bruno gets his 5th booking and banned from the next game, will be interesting to see a midfield of Amrabat, Mainoo and Mount... just not vs Liverpool please.

On current form, I think it would be more likely we'll see Mount, McTominay and either Amrabat or Mainoo.

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

I think Hojlund will benefit from Mount hitting form.

 

[Borys]

He's going to offer better passing / ball carrying. There are many times where McT simply hides / just passes back when he drops deep when he should be turning and carrying the ball forward / passing it forward.

McT offers extra physicality (height, strength), better goal scoring and more defensive solidity but sacrifices passing, ball carrying, pressing high up.

EDIT

I guess given we have too many midfield combinations, if we say Amrabat, Bruno and one of McT / Mount, who do you think should get in? Let's ignore current form and try to reason from first principles given both players' skillsets.

On the first part - you're obviously right, but missing the point. McTominay is clearly following Ten Hag's instructions now (not to get involved in the buildup, not tracking back, no carrying the ball, just attacking the box and waiting for the ball to fall to him). He is by design playing second striker and he is doing that better than Mount would.

What we should be doing to bring the balance back is a completely different discussion, IMO we need Mount to play the ball carrier/progressor role in possession and more of "Fred" role out of possession. Basically we need him to take similar positions that Eriksen does. Notice that Eriksen is the only one that plays like a second midfielder under Ten Hag - Mount needs to take this role from him now.

I don't think this is going to happen though, clearly ETH wants us to play with two #10s now.

 

[Teja]

On the first part - you're obviously right, but missing the point. McTominay is clearly following Ten Hag's instructions now (not to get involved in the buildup, not tracking back, no carrying the ball, just attacking the box and waiting for the ball to fall to him). He is by design playing second striker and he is doing that better than Mount would.

What we should be doing to bring the balance back is a completely different discussion, IMO we need Mount to play the ball carrier/progressor role in possession and more of "Fred" role out of possession. Basically we need him to take similar positions that Eriksen does. Notice that Eriksen is the only one that plays like a second midfielder under Ten Hag - Mount needs to take this role from him now.

I don't think this is going to happen though, clearly ETH wants us to play with two #10s now.

Yes, let's abandon the Eriksen idea because that was a temporary bandaid. The two #10s solution (or the two #8s) is what we're doing.

If you assume that the DM is a pure DM with no ball carrying or playmaking abilities (Case, Amrabat) and Bruno is the other mid, would you choose Mount or McT as the complementary skill set?

It seems to me like Mount is the obvious solution.

 

[TheRedHearted]

​

The question is, where does he come in? I know we might joke about it and what not, but McT is legitimately our biggest goal threat right now. If he comes out someone needs to pick up the scoring. I suppose the hope would be that with someone who is better at the midfielder stuff than McT is that the forwards or Bruno will be able to get among the goals, but there's no way to be sure of that right now.

Hojland-Scottie Pippin
Bruno

mount
Amrabat Maino


​

 

[Appletonred]

Did the club insert a Ballon D'or clause in the transfer fee?....

 

[AjaxCunian]

Not a Man United player, really strange transfer. He will be forgotten like Schneiderlin or Darmian.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Not a Man United player

Jesus some people don't keep up at all. We signed him in the summer just gone.

Poor lad thought we were devoting all this time to talk about a Chelsea player.

 

[saivet]

While not convinced with the current midfield set up, I do think there is a place for him in the current midfield ahead of McT (when his goals dry up). I think he can influence possession more than McT and can probably match his defensive work too. McT has been a threat in the air and can be a target for longer balls. Defending set pieces having McT in the team is really useful too. Mount won't walk back into the team but there's a slot there for him to take.

 

[Borys]

Yes, let's abandon the Eriksen idea because that was a temporary bandaid. The two #10s solution (or the two #8s) is what we're doing.

If you assume that the DM is a pure DM with no ball carrying or playmaking abilities (Case, Amrabat) and Bruno is the other mid, would you choose Mount or McT as the complementary skill set?

It seems to me like Mount is the obvious solution.

Mount is the way to go, but we have to use him differently to how we've been using McTominay.

McTominay is just a second striker now, that will be useful if we're chasing a game (last 10-20mins). Mount should play more of a midfielder role for us.

With McTominay the setup is DM-Bruno-McT, but with Mount it's DM-MM-Bruno.
I'm still very sceptical about this idea but I rate Mount, and I think he's got the right skillet to make it work, but we need to use him more like a midfielder rather than pushing Bruno deeper and playing MM high up the pitch.

 

[kundalini]

That’s interesting. Do the figures change much if you include all competitions as I note you’ve capped it at PL?

No idea. I used Understat's individual profiles (only cover PL matches and big 5 European leagues) and their shot maps which include type of shot (penalty, free-kick etc), though when I had a quick look at individual matches, it told me that Mount provided the assist and that the situation was a corner but not whether Mount took the corner.

I typically use Understat, Transfermarkt and Whoscored. Of those, Understat make it relatively easy for PL, Transfermarkt is hugely time consuming to do the calculations, especially if a player scores penalties, as you need to go through each match in which they scored, to see if it was a penalty.

As it is, we don't know to what extent McTominay's goal threat is sustainable, nor is it straightforward to figure out the fraction of Mount's goals and assists that are situations such as wide free-kicks and corners, that you would normally expect Fernandes or perhaps Shaw to take for United.

 

[Yorkeontop]

He'll feature against Liverpool surely with Bruno's absence, off the bench most likely.

 

[Frank Grimes]

Any news on him? Is he training? Does he even exist?