[prath92]

Don't think he has missed a game barely since early October

He is currently injured.

They were in direct competition for only 1 season, and LvG decided (after Leicester and Vardy cheated a penalty out of Rafael) that he couldn't trust him.

Rafael played games even after that. He was just injured a lot and once Valencia came, he couldn't displace him.

 

[berbatrick]

He is currently injured.



Rafael played games even after that. He was just injured a lot and once Valencia came, he couldn't displace him.

Yes, but your wording seems to imply that this was the case for the 4-5 years Rafael was at the club. Moyes started moving Valencia to RB when chasing games (usually we did worse after that), and LvG used him there regularly.
The number of big and small mistakes that Valencia made in that position was astonishing and I couldn't believe he was not dropped.
Under SAF the reserve RBs were Jones, Smalling, and Fletcher, in that order. I think Valencia played 1-2 times at RB under SAF in the 4 years he was his manager.

 

[11101]

Hes one of the least of our worries. Hes quick and a very solid defender, he just needs time to adapt to the pace of the league. He has clearly struggled with his stamina after a good start.

The complaints about his attacking ability are missing a huge point - thats not his job right now. When Neville was marauding forward he had Beckham covering him. As soon as Ronaldo came along he became much more selective about when he went forward as he knew Ronaldo couldnt be relied on to the cover the space. Darmian has Mata in front of him.

Next season, once hes used to the pace and he (hopefully) has a better winger in front of him he will be a cracking player.

 

[Water Melon]

Hes one of the least of our worries. Hes quick and a very solid defender, he just needs time to adapt to the pace of the league. He has clearly struggled with his stamina after a good start.

The complaints about his attacking ability are missing a huge point - thats not his job right now. When Neville was marauding forward he had Beckham covering him. As soon as Ronaldo came along he became much more selective about when he went forward as he knew Ronaldo couldnt be relied on to the cover the space. Darmian has Mata in front of him.

Next season, once hes used to the pace and he (hopefully) has a better winger in front of him he will be a cracking player.

Spot on, Sir. Once we have a proper RW, Matteo will play much better football.

 

[khoazany]

Hes one of the least of our worries. Hes quick and a very solid defender, he just needs time to adapt to the pace of the league. He has clearly struggled with his stamina after a good start.

The complaints about his attacking ability are missing a huge point - thats not his job right now. When Neville was marauding forward he had Beckham covering him. As soon as Ronaldo came along he became much more selective about when he went forward as he knew Ronaldo couldnt be relied on to the cover the space. Darmian has Mata in front of him.

Next season, once hes used to the pace and he (hopefully) has a better winger in front of him he will be a cracking player.

Strongly disagree.He would do better with a better right winger in front of him, no debate about that.However he doesn't have much offensive qualities to start with.Very ordinary.The main concern still should be to get his defensive nous back though.

 

[prath92]

Yes, but your wording seems to imply that this was the case for the 4-5 years Rafael was at the club. Moyes started moving Valencia to RB when chasing games (usually we did worse after that), and LvG used him there regularly.
The number of big and small mistakes that Valencia made in that position was astonishing and I couldn't believe he was not dropped.
Under SAF the reserve RBs were Jones, Smalling, and Fletcher, in that order. I think Valencia played 1-2 times at RB under SAF in the 4 years he was his manager.

My wording was that when they both became competitors, Rafael couldn't displace Valencia. While Valencia did make mistakes, he was overall very good. Rafael had been average since SAF left and injured 80% of the time it would seem. Last season Valencia grew into the role and by the end of the season was more consistent than Rafael had been for 2 years. He made mistakes yes like the pass to Welbeck and stuff but it's not like Rafael wouldn't have made mistakes. Even Gary Neville in his prime made mistakes.

 

[Santiago_KinderBueno]

Spot on, Sir. Once we have a proper RW, Matteo will play much better football.

Not only that - Shaw's injury has clearly affected memphis in a similar way.

Also, having a RW marauding with the ball will flatten and attract the opposition defenders in a way currently mata is not doing. It will give space to the whole team RB to LW.

 

[11101]

Strongly disagree.He would do better with a better right winger in front of him, no debate about that.However he doesn't have much offensive qualities to start with.Very ordinary.The main concern still should be to get his defensive nous back though.

We dont know what his offensive ability is really like yet. Theres no way he will attack freely knowing that if the space he leaves is scored from he will be crucified, as im sure he saw happen to Luke Shaw after Swansea (i think). At the moment he looks like hes not sure what he should be doing.

 

[Water Melon]

Not only that - Shaw's injury has clearly affected memphis in a similar way.

Also, having a RW marauding with the ball will flatten and attract the opposition defenders in a way currently mata is not doing. It will give space to the whole team RB to LW.

Seconded.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Rafael couldn't displace Valencia when he was here. And I hear he has been Poor for Lyon too.

Rather, he was prevented from displacing Valencia by Van Gaal. That as the season progressed Rafael could barely make it onto the bench ahead of McNair, was suggestive of some irreconcilable problem. But if one had borne a little though for Valencia's own injury record, as well as his limitations as an RB, the expectations of Darmian were clearly too high (a player new to the league).

Rafael played games even after that. He was just injured a lot and once Valencia came, he couldn't displace him.

Indeed he did, and was one of our better players against Chelsea IIRC (his best performances are a level above anything we've seen since). Rafael was not "injured a lot" though, as he spent months either playing for the U-21s or in pursuit of Van Gaal's elusive idea of match rhythm or some such.

Darmian has Mata in front of him.

Two DMs and a wide player would much sooner be cutting inside when given the opportunity, does not that increase the need for suitably effective fullback in attack?

I'm not blaming Darmian really, he's a victim of his manager's contradictory policies, yet he shall need to improve his contribution offensively to be a success here at United in my opinion.

 

[K2K]

finding his feet?

 

[Skills]

You'd hope so considering the level of the opposition.

I'd rather not use lower league opposition to start judging our players. Van Gaal and a few here had decided McNair was going to be our future right back after looking good against Cambridge, then looked shit whenever he played there against anyone decent.

 

[Sied]

He certainly looks better offensively when there's some runs being made for him. Bodes well for the future imo. Especially when a future manager brings a more offensive play style.

 

[Adam-Utd]

He still looks like a deer in headlights to me when he gets the ball. He has a nervous first touch and doesn't have much of a picture in his head of what he wants to do.

Saying that though when he has time he did pick a lovely ball for rooneys run, and and has been pretty solid defensively so far.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

He still looks like a deer in headlights to me when he gets the ball. He has a nervous first touch and doesn't have much of a picture in his head of what he wants to do.

Saying that though when he has time he did pick a lovely ball for rooneys run, and and has been pretty solid defensively so far.

With an actual RW in front of him, we will, hopefully, be able to see the best of him. Both He and Mata lack pace and its hurts us quite a bit on that side of the pitch.

 

[m1y2]

Rafael couldn't displace Valencia when he was here. And I hear he has been Poor for Lyon too.

you got it all wrong mate, rafael's been a bright spark for them this season, when fit, and it was always a NO competition between him and Valencia when he was fully fit but there was this short spell after the leicester game when Valencia was given a preference by manager for no particular reason, the same he did with Herrera, Depay etc..

it was shocking decision to replace Rafael with someone as shit as Darmian who is also a year older than Brazilian..

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Great player. Had our only shot on target, so far.

 

[Zoo]

Only positive today.

 

[ivaldo]

Only positive today.

Played much better, Blind and memphis have been decent, other than that.

 

[Bwuk]

I thought he was poor much like the rest of the team

 

[m1y2]

he had better of games but the fact is that he didnt have to do ANYTHING defensively having played good old Young there he would tear them apart. For me it's still absolutely shocking how bad Darmian's dribbling is, also is never synced with attacking players, tend to be on his heels alot when comes to attacking moves, but he put in some good balls in today as well as nice little through ball to rooney so hopefully he starts picking his confidence back, that doesn't really mean we shouldn't look into market for a proper fullback of MUTD quality

 

[stevoc]

I thought he offered virtually nothing going forward again today.

No idea what others were watching. Might improve defensively as he settles but i just don't see an attacking fullback in him.

 

[prath92]

you got it all wrong mate, rafael's been a bright spark for them this season, when fit, and it was always a NO competition between him and Valencia when he was fully fit but there was this short spell after the leicester game when Valencia was given a preference by manager for no particular reason, the same he did with Herrera, Depay etc..

it was shocking decision to replace Rafael with someone as shit as Darmian who is also a year older than Brazilian..

He was dropped because he was injured. Not for no reason. In fact we had rarely not played him when fit. He was injured around New Year and Valencia took his chances and Rafael couldnt displace Valencia from then on.

As for Rafael at Lyon, My friends who support Lyon complain about his defending and fitness. they say he is unnecessarily too offensive and doesnt support the backline when they need him to.

 

[prath92]

I thought he offered virtually nothing going forward again today.

No idea what others were watching. Might improve defensively as he settles but i just don't see an attacking fullback in him.

Really? He was 90% in the opposition half and I thought he overlapped well too. He showed great pace many times and even got in a shot on target, albeit a poor one.

 

[Devil may care]

Until Memphis came on he looked the most likely to create something.

 

[Norris]

I thought he offered virtually nothing going forward again today.

No idea what others were watching. Might improve defensively as he settles but i just don't see an attacking fullback in him.

I might ask the same question mate, what game were you watching ? He made some good overlapping runs. He completely beat a man for pace in a piece of play (but it could have been just a very slow opposition fullback all the same) Managed to get the first shot on target. I know it is against Sheffield and it can in no way, indicate how good he is. But was decent overall.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

His crossing was much better today. Fizzed 3 or 4 great balls in to good areas. We're lousy at attacking crosses though. No wonder most of the wide players cut in side. There's just no point in trying.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

He was bloody abject today. Couldn't be arsed to break into a sprint half the time.

 

[DanNistelrooy]

Crossing was better today. Still struggles with basic passes and controlling a football. His first touch is horrific, just seems so panicked in possession

 

[Di Maria's angel]

We really shouldn't be lamenting a full back for not being a brilliant attacker. That's not his job. It's a small part of it, but he shouldn't be judged on it. His lack of attacking contribution is emphasised by the fact that he's mostly isolated on that side or has to partner with Mata (not a fecking right winger, Louis!) to initiate some form of an attack.

 

[Raees]

How many good games has he actually had if we discount pre-season?

 

[ZDwyr]

I thought that was a big improvement over his recent performances.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Better, great pass to Rooney and a couple decent crosses. It's just really irritating to see no linkup or connection between our right sided players.

 

[Cooksen]

Him and Mata are not a good combination at all.

I think he would play far better if he had an actual winger in front of him.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Is anybody else really worried about his low stamina? towards the end of the game he went completely missing and just decided to stay back, leaving lingard 2v1 on that flank. While Rafael wasn't perfect Atleast he flew forwards for 90 minutes, same for Valencia.

Don't think he's used to being so attacking all the time, I guess in Italy he was used to sitting back more and doing his fair share of defending

 

[DanNistelrooy]

We really shouldn't be lamenting a full back for not being a brilliant attacker. That's not his job. It's a small part of it, but he shouldn't be judged on it.

See that's where I completely disagree. In today's game and for a possession based team like ours fullbacks play a huge part in attacking. Look at other fullbacks in teams that dominate possession over the years and today : Alves, Zabaleta, Kolarov, Sagna, Lahm, Bellerin, Monreal, Marcelo, all contribute massively to attacks.

 

[Adam-Utd]

See that's where I completely disagree. In today's game and for a possession based team like ours fullbacks play a huge part in attacking. Look at other fullbacks in teams that dominate possession over the years and today : Alves, Zabaleta, Kolarov, Sagna, Lahm, Bellerin, Monreal, Marcelo, all contribute massively to attacks.

Exactly. Full backs are basically 2nd wingers these days, If you can't attack properly for a big team you're pretty useless.

 

[K2K]

you got it all wrong mate, rafael's been a bright spark for them this season, when fit, and it was always a NO competition between him and Valencia when he was fully fit but there was this short spell after the leicester game when Valencia was given a preference by manager for no particular reason, the same he did with Herrera, Depay etc..

it was shocking decision to replace Rafael with someone as shit as Darmian who is also a year older than Brazilian..

Valencia played well as a fullback for a large part of last season, and wasnt just put into the team for no reason.

Look at his thread from last season. It's merely the case that a lot of people wanted him to fail, and when he did make a mistake against Arsenal, people came out with the pitchforks. Just check the general trend of comments yourself

Rafael is a good player, a tad overrated on the Caf though. He's got his own frailities beyound injuries.

Surely Darmian should get some patience as he's only 6 months .

I fear a lot of the hate stems from the same hate Valencia got last season. It's because of who they replaced. The Rafa love in means that whoever we got in was bound to be scrutinized beyond reason.

 

[m1y2]

Valencia played well as a fullback for a large part of last season, and wasnt just put into the team for no reason.

Look at his thread from last season. It's merely the case that a lot of people wanted him to fail, and when he did make a mistake against Arsenal, people came out with the pitchforks. Just check the general trend of comments yourself

Rafael is a good player, a tad overrated on the Caf though. He's got his own frailities beyound injuries.

Surely Darmian should get some patience as he's only 6 months .

I fear a lot of the hate stems from the same hate Valencia got last season. It's because of who they replaced. The Rafa love in means that whoever we got in was bound to be scrutinized beyond reason.

Valencias 6/10 performances we all remember, here and there 7/10 and shocker from time to time, we got used to lower standard, if you watch how Rafael played, how proper modern right back plays in fact you would see the difference but I have comfirmed it here many times people have short short memories, and are able to cirtisize players for being injured and in the end just settle for lower standards. I wasn't critisizing Valencia much he did his best there but his inability to use his brain was absolutely unpardonable and I was furious we couldn't use that right hand side even more with Mata and Herrera in form.. If Darmian will ever reach the level what Rafa showed us unfortunately only for two seasons due to injuries, he wasn't struggling with any of the top players, like Ronaldo/Bale, Hazard defensively and showed like three times more in terms of attacking.. if darmian ever be close to that level I will consider a success..

Yes people love rafa for his dedicated etc. but also like to remember his world class performances, it's the other half of people who only remembers one rush challenge there and a lot of time being sidelined.

Anyway it's just a waste of time to explain some people this frustration from lack of quality at fullback position, some people get excited from very little..

 

[stevoc]

Really? He was 90% in the opposition half and I thought he overlapped well too. He showed great pace many times and even got in a shot on target, albeit a poor one.

Being in the opposition half against a team like Sheffield who were camping in and around their own box really doesn't mean much. He didn't have much to do defensively so obviously he was going to be in their half most of the time.

I might ask the same question mate, what game were you watching ? He made some good overlapping runs. He completely beat a man for pace in a piece of play (but it could have been just a very slow opposition fullback all the same) Managed to get the first shot on target. I know it is against Sheffield and it can in no way, indicate how good he is. But was decent overall.

He contributed a few overlaps and a few crosses fair enough but against a team like this i would expect more. Much more.

How many times did he receive the ball and just turn around and pass it straight back to whoever gave it to him right away. Too many is the answer and it's frustrating as feck. Even against a team like this he didn't offer much going forward, vs better opposition he gets forward even less.

He just doesn't seem like a very attacking fullback, which for me is a big problem. We mostly play with 2 deep midfielders so our fullbacks should be bombing forward all the time and stretching the opposition. Shaw was doing it quite well before his injury, Darmian doesn't. It's at least partly why we are so shit going forward, and have a hard time breaking teams down.

To be honest to me he still looks like a CB playing RB.