Robben vs Salah is damn close but I would probably opt for Salah. Just a bigger goal threat for me.
Mo Salah
- Thread starter Robbie Boy
- Start date
Yeah call me a weirdo but I would go with the forward more likely to be fit and while fit is more likely to score and assist 
When the game is over we don't decide the winner on how many explosive dribbles the team completed.
Obviously United fans don't like Salah but this is a no contest (excluding the aesthetic factor).
When the game is over we don't decide the winner on how many explosive dribbles the team completed.
Obviously United fans don't like Salah but this is a no contest (excluding the aesthetic factor).
The difference in natural ability between Iniesta and Lampard is much bigger than that of Robben and Salah.
It is but its still enough to tip the balance for me. I see Robben as a player who can go into any team/system/style of play, surrounded by players of whatever quality and still look absolutely world class & a constant threat. I simply don't see it in Salah's skillset to do the same. 'Pool are completely maximizing his level.
What teams that weren’t top teams has Robben played for you to come to this conclusion?
If this is the case what argument do you have for the likes of Xavi? I would say he’s the best CM of his generation but does he have the skill set to play in any team system and style of play?
I'm saying that if you stick a truly world class player into any team there is often an instant tell when you see them play that they are levels above others on the pitch. The same would also apply to Xavi. More recently the same applied to Thiago Silva with us.
I think I would go with Robben based on the fact that he was world class for so long with three different clubs. I'd like to see Salah in a non Klopp team, as in the way Couthino looked world class only under Klopp but not before or since.
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Yes. Xavi was that good.
I don't think even Xavi would make that claim about himself.
Xavi could play and look good in any top team.
Might have struggled at Wimbledon back in the day and similar teams.
This is assumed peak xavi of course. Rijkaard taking over and moving him out of the holding role was a sliding doors moment for him as he was looking likely to never really reach his potential before that.
Might have struggled at Wimbledon back in the day and similar teams.
This is assumed peak xavi of course. Rijkaard taking over and moving him out of the holding role was a sliding doors moment for him as he was looking likely to never really reach his potential before that.
So why won’t the same be with Salah, apart from the time he was at Chelsea when he was 20 he has thrived at every other club. He might not be to the level he was with Liverpool under Klopp likewise Xavi wouldn’t be to the level he was at Barca with Guardiola, heck there were even times in his own career at Barca where things didn’t look as great under other managers, most top players are elevated by the system but the flip side is they elevate the system too.
Robben was incredible though probably the 3rd-5th best player of his generation after Messi and Ronaldo.
I don't think posters on an internet forum have an insight into Xavi's thoughts on such a matter.
Because he isn't good enough as a footballer to be able to do that. He is a goalscorer first and foremost, and thus is more reliant than said players above (Xavi, Silva, Robben) on his teammates to be able to perform at a world class level. His past shows that, but if that's being too harsh considering he was still growing as a player, at present in his prime with Egypt he still looks very ordinary playing for them. His level seems to lower to the level of his teammates, and vice versa at 'pool.
The more talented players (Xavi, Silva, Robben) have that quality that transcends systems/teams. It's not a knock on him I still think he's in the top 5 currently and a world class goalscorer. But when comparing him to someone like Robben or even Bale, I just can't have him above them. He'd have to be hitting Ronaldo/Messi numbers.
Now I’m not necessarily saying Salah’s as good as Robben, Xavi and Silva were, but when did those three ever play in a team comparable to Egypt where their quality transcended?
I mean, they played for Brazil, PSG, Chelsea, Holland, Chelsea, Real Madrid, Bayern, Barca and Spain.
They haven't. That's why I mentioned Salah's style of play and main qualities being more geared towards off the ball running and goalscoring, which limits him as a player in lesser sides. Those other players all had qualities that make them stand out in general play, so it doesn't matter what team they play for their fundamentals are so good that they will always look class.
I don't necessarily think we need to see a Xavi etc playing for a Fiorentina/Roma/Egypt to know he'd still look like a brilliant player.
Sorry am past the post limit so will reply here.
He's definitely more than just a poacher. I'll try to detail what I see as his main strengths and why it translates to him being elite in Liverpool's system, but not necessarily somewhere else:
- Extremely good spatial awareness in the final third in terms of when he receives the ball with players around him and also knowing where teammates are
- Top movement
- Good/very good finishing, his composure is always excellent but sometimes his finishing doesn't match it
- Very clever link up and quick interchange in the final third
- Good vision but inconsistent execution
Compare that with Egypt where the onus is on him as the best player to make things happen. The things that he's great at (above) he can't do to his highest level as it is reliant on his teammates also being on the same wavelength, which they aren't. When he's not a goal threat his flaws become more evident. His passing in general is inconsistent, high turnovers, ball retention is mediocre, tends to be on the periphery of the game when his team aren't playing well. He cannot dictate/dominate a match in the way others can. This is for Liverpool aswell, have seen plenty of games where he's not involved at all but might pop up with a goal and all is forgotten. As you say he is capable of producing absolute moments of magic which can't be argued with. This is why I don't hesitate to put him up there at the moment.
But back to the original point though I feel players like Robben/Bale offered everything (maybe not as good statistically) that Salah does but are also better footballers who could do more than Salah outside of the final third. I've seen them be the best player on the pitch plenty of times without affecting the scoresheet. The same can rarely be said when I watch Salah. All just my opinion of course I know its a really unpopular one.
To be fair what you're describing sounds like Conte's Chelsea where he wanted absolutely nothing to do with Fabregas initially but then over time, good performance after good performance won his trust and became a pivotal player. I don't even think Cesc was fully suited to playing deep but he was very good. I can imagine Xavi being excellent in that system.
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How many players can score the goal he scored against City? You make it seem as if he’s just a poacher.
Also Salah looked like a brilliant player for Roma and has more than a 1 in 2 record for Egypt, also as far as playmaking goes he’s probably the best playmaker out of all the attackers in the league after Kane, he’s way more than just a goalscorer, when he finishes with the most assists in the league as well as top scorer maybe people will start to realise this like they have with Kane.
Xavi would be bang average for a low block counter attacking team. And no, a single player can't turn a counter attacking team into a possession style side. The entire team needs to be geared towards that. Don't understand why people are so hesitant to acknowledge that Xavi and Iniesta spent their primes in teams tailor made for their style and wouldn't be half as effective in totally different systems and they don't need to be frankly. They're experts at what they do
Robben is a different case. The man has all the qualities required for all kinds of teams. He seems more independent of systems.
Salah is overall on a similar level to Robben probably.
If I'm choosing for a one off game, its Robben everytime. Bigger match winner.
But if it's an entire season, it'll be Salah because of his consistency.
Bale and Robben are a bit similar in the way that they are both injury prone match winners blessed with amazing speed and shooting ability.
Robben is a different case. The man has all the qualities required for all kinds of teams. He seems more independent of systems.
Salah is overall on a similar level to Robben probably.
If I'm choosing for a one off game, its Robben everytime. Bigger match winner.
But if it's an entire season, it'll be Salah because of his consistency.
Bale and Robben are a bit similar in the way that they are both injury prone match winners blessed with amazing speed and shooting ability.
I dont think so, Xavi would have struggled in a non possession dependent team, He was about to be sold off by Rijkaard for being too small and having little physical presence. A counter attacking style that depends on tough tackling, strenght and speed I dont think Xavi will look good there.
Many world class players looked terrible when a different pattern was played. A possession world class player will struggle under a counter attacking team and vice versa. There are defenders who looked great in low blocks but silly with high lines
Indeed.
If injuries played a big part then neither R9 or Van Basten would be massive.
I rather pick talent and performances over the rest.
I think Robben was better than Salah, i believe Football it's more than stats.
Nobody thinks Kane is as good as Henry or Van Basten just for having a similar goal ratio.
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I'm not a United fan, and i think Salah is better.Yeah call me a weirdo but I would go with the forward more likely to be fit and while fit is more likely to score and assist
When the game is over we don't decide the winner on how many explosive dribbles the team completed.
Obviously United fans don't like Salah but this is a no contest (excluding the aesthetic factor).
Football is more than stats, classifying footballers merely as numbers it's the most tiktok zoomer thing, who don't watch games and just read wikipedia.
I'm sure there are zoomers who think Bruno Fernandes is a top 3 midfielder because of his statistics despite not being able to control the midfield to save his life.
I'd pick Robben over Salah, i like his style more.
The Netherlands for a good part of Robben's team were really quite average - certainly far below the level of a European top team. Yet Robben was always dangerous. See the Brazil WC especially, if I remember correctly.
Robben had his own ups and downs to qualify the "he'd be a success in any team" claims. There is a reason he went to Bayern after being sold off from Chelsea and then Real.
The reason he left Madrid was because Madrid for Ronaldo
And also he wasn't quite hitting the heights hoped for.
I'm assuming that the beginning is a Typo and that you meant to say Robben.
I don't know if you are trying to say that I am classifying players based on statistics but that's really not the case, Salah is AT LEAST as good a footballer as Robben while also dominating him statistically.
My post even included a caveat which states that aesthetically there is a debate but I guarantee that no matter what you show me that you find aesthetically pleasing about Robbens play I could show you something that Salah does to match it.
Different people have different tastes in their footballers, some like a clean tackle , some a dirty one, some like a through ball , some like a whipped cross so of course that's debatable.
It's like arguing about what the best flavour of ice cream is.
You are acting like the "Anti Zoomer" who believes that having goals and assists is a stick to beat someone with, it's possible to be an aesthetically pleasing player that also regularly contributes ( which Robben was by the way because if he wasn't he wouldn't be as highly rated as he is).
Yeah Xavi and Scholes were ridiculous. Iniesta too. No current midfielder comes close, maybe Modric a few years ago (?).
There's a difference between being mismanaged and being unsuited to a style of play. Scholes was excellent for United and he couldn't tackle and had little physicality. I have no doubt Xavi would too. Same with had he played under Conte, Jose or Simeone. People have this weird misconception about Barcelona players being incapable of fitting in other systems.
Wasn't that mostly because he was injured a lot? He only turned that around at Bayern when they figured out what was the underlying factor that was bothering him.
But isn't that the whole crux of the argument against picking Robben over Salah, an inability to be consistently fit and therefore unable to provide as much to a team as Salah? So If you had to pick one to put in your team would it be the guy who plays less, scores less and assists less. (Per 90)
I don't think anyone is arguing his talent, it's just the fact his career was hamstrung by injury.
Also I remember watching that season for Robben and as far as I remember it wasn't solely down to injuries but the whole team were inconsistent and I think he took the brunt of that from the fans. (Unfairly and it's one of the big reasons I was turned off from Spanish football and Real Madrid in particular)
I remember when we beat Madrid over two legs that year. Robben was completely invisible and looked out of his element. Even without the injury fix, I think he found a new lease of life at bayern. He was a much more aggressive runner after he went to Germany.
Not sure why people are claiming Robben was world class throughout his career. He was amazing at the start for Chelsea but started picking up too many injuries, playing poorly and couldn't get a game. It wasn't a massive coup for Madrid to sign him, and I'm pretty sure he was poor for Madrid and Bayern picked him up when they going through a tough period.
For Bayern, yeah no doubt he was world class and probably the 3rd best player in the world and at times for Holland.
For Bayern, yeah no doubt he was world class and probably the 3rd best player in the world and at times for Holland.
Salah over Robben anyday.
Robben over Salah anyday. Guy carried Bayern and the Dutch NT singlehandedly. Great and special player. Not discrediting Salah but Robben was top 3 with Messi and Ronaldo for a good while.
There’s a strange inverse logic that somehow uses his incredible stats against him. As if his proficient output is hiding a secret set of flaws only seen by those with a real understanding of the game. This while some less impactful footballers receive more praise for winning the ‘eye test’ which is unencumbered by the inconvenience of empirical evidence.
I know right. Imagine doubting Xavi, Xavi Hernandes a player imperious in ball retention , technical ability, vision , passing, match controlling capability, press resistant, deep lying playmaking etc. A player who had no equals but he would struggle outside of Barcelona because all those qualities would vanish or fade away in any other system or team. Bloody hell this forum sometimes. Next up Iniesta won’t be good in any other team because of the same logic as Xavi’s.
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What an incoherent rancid logic is that ? Yikes. Thought you were a Stoke fan for a second after seeing that. Expected better from a fan of a cultured team like Bayern on football. Out of curiosity what team of past or present you think Xavi would struggle in ?
I think Xavi will struggle in a Mourinho team and any team that reject possession and depend on counter attacks. Since you mentioned Stoke, Xavi will struggle in any team that plays like Stoke
That's a very simplistic way of looking at football. The same logic should would lead you to the conclusion that KDB would struggle under Guardiola (a midfielder who hovers under an 80% pass completion). But great managers aren't so rigid and oblivious to the talent of the players they've got.
IIRC Aragones' Spain wasn't a heavy possession team, and Xavi was fantastic in that team. They ended up with less possession than Germany in that final and Xavi made the assist in that final
Salah for me, as much as it pains me, Xavi was a world class and would have been in any top team, with his ability he would only have played in a top team
If you're coaching a team with Xavi and you have them reject possession and depend on counter attacks you should be sacked and then banned from coming within 100 yards of a football pitch ever again