[K2K]

It sounded like a good post, then your last sentence pretty much reveals something else. A skewed opinion that's actually not based on facts or working eyeballs. Pogba has never acted like a prima donna, he wouldn't be as appreciated by his teammates if that was the case, he would not have survived at Juventus were that the case, he wouldn't be a world-cup winning champion under Deschamps if that were the case. Which brings me to a point that is so clear to see on these boards, you among others just repeat what you hear some pundits say and recycle the same accusations. The man isn't, and never has been a primadonna. Fair enough on his performances, but that doesn't equate to being unprofessional when the team as a whole had the dark cloud of Mourinho hanging over them. If the team was clicking and Pogba was dragging them down willingly, you'd have a point. It's just not accurate and it's time to stop perpetrating the myth that the man is this arrogant diva as it couldn't be further from the truth. I don't know the man personally, but I got to meet him in person with my friend in Miami who has a 4 year old son, and Pogba spent an entire hour playing with the kid who isn't very good. There were no cameras, and no one reported it, he's just a genuinely good person and it's tiring to see the media paint this image that's just not true, Rahim Sterling exposed the bias in the media and people eat it up and regurgitate the same nonsense. So maybe you're not part of this agenda, but you certainly know some of their lines.

No matter how much this is mentioned people will never listen.

If Pogba was such a primadona he would simply have caused plenty of problems for Deschamps both at Euro16 and the WC when he was required to play less of an advanced role. But not once did he complain. Just worked hard for the good of the team. Pogba has worked with some tough coaches too. Conte is one who can be a tough taskmaster and even showed that at Chelsea. Yet he didn't cause any troubles there either. Even Sir Alex said that his problem was with Raiola and not Paul.

Its amazing how people can be so easily spoon-fed by a media that is always running with one narrative or the other even when there is plenty of evidence to suggest otherwise.

 

[ZenMaster Coltrane]

You can choose to examine the words and actions of the players Pogba has played with and the managers he's played under. Pirlo, Bonucci, Chiellini, Buffon, Vidal, Dybala...his France teammates, Deschamps, Conte and Allegri. Then you can compare that mountain of evidence to the leaks and slights originating from the most insecure, self-obsessed manager of this era who has a history of scapegoating and alienating big players in pursuit of self-preservation.

I pity the fools who could never work this out for themselves. Hopefully, they never serve on a jury.

 

[wub1234]

It sounded like a good post, then your last sentence pretty much reveals something else. A skewed opinion that's actually not based on facts or working eyeballs. Pogba has never acted like a prima donna, he wouldn't be as appreciated by his teammates if that was the case, he would not have survived at Juventus were that the case, he wouldn't be a world-cup winning champion under Deschamps if that were the case. Which brings me to a point that is so clear to see on these boards, you among others just repeat what you hear some pundits say and recycle the same accusations. The man isn't, and never has been a primadonna. Fair enough on his performances, but that doesn't equate to being unprofessional when the team as a whole had the dark cloud of Mourinho hanging over them. If the team was clicking and Pogba was dragging them down willingly, you'd have a point. It's just not accurate and it's time to stop perpetrating the myth that the man is this arrogant diva as it couldn't be further from the truth. I don't know the man personally, but I got to meet him in person with my friend in Miami who has a 4 year old son, and Pogba spent an entire hour playing with the kid who isn't very good. There were no cameras, and no one reported it, he's just a genuinely good person and it's tiring to see the media paint this image that's just not true, Rahim Sterling exposed the bias in the media and people eat it up and regurgitate the same nonsense. So maybe you're not part of this agenda, but you certainly know some of their lines.

I couldn't care less about him playing with some kid, which is something I never observed. I'm sure he's basically a nice lad. I don't know him. You don't know him.

All I am commenting on is his performances on the field, and many, many people agree with me. Many, many media pundits and observers, all of whom played professional football, agree with me. So I don't think my view can be that unreasonable.

Furthermore, what does prima donna mean?

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/prima donna

A prima donna is a diva: someone who acts like they are the star of the show.

Is that a fair description of Pogba? I believe so. And that's why he attracts criticism. Because he acts that way, while producing absolutely nowhere near the level of performance, or even basic commitment, required to justify it.

I hope he does well going forward, but the criticism he has received in the past is both warranted and justified.

 

[wub1234]

First of all, I haven’t called you a “racialist” or a “racist”.

The implication you have made is that I am judging Pogba based on his race, so whether or not you realise this it is an accusation of racism or racialism.

Secondly, Pogba’s “unprofessonalism” is not an “easily observed reality”.

It is a matter of opinion, and the opinion of many, many people are the same as mine. As I've mentioned previously, I've never seen any other professional footballer start doing kick-ups and flicks near the own goal, before losing the ball. It is reasonable to describe this as unprofessional.

And yet far too many pundits and fans insist on attacking Pogba’s character and professionalism.

Firstly, Pogba makes himself a target for several reasons that have been discussed previously. Secondly, none of the other players you have mentioned have exhibited the lack of effort and professionalism that Pogba has. You mentioned Martial - I haven't seen him accused of a lack of effort, particularly in the last days of Mourinho's reign when he scored several goals. So why wasn't he drawn into the racialist media narrative? It's because it's not a racialist narrative, it's based on the fact that Pogba behaves, quite demonstrably, in an immature fashion.

How many Souness’ exhibited the same negativity about David Beckham’s character and professionalism?

Firstly, I think Beckham's work rate and commitment were not in doubt. If Pogba had shown the level of commitment of Beckham, or was turning in absolutely top drawer performances every week, then he would get much less criticism for his other conduct.

Secondly, I can't comment on other people, but I find the completely disproportionate amount of attention that Beckham gets to be nauseating, particularly considering he basically retired at the age of 31, by moving to LA Galaxy.

So yes, like you, Garth Crooks is pushing a biased and negative narrative about Pogba that is light on evidence.

So I am to understand that Garth Crooks, who is black, who was a pioneering black footballer, who has spoken out against racism in football, does not understand narratives and stereotypes related to black players, and his opinion of Pogba is not objective, but instead informed by racialism?

 

[wub1234]

The 'virus' story was broken by Duncan Castles, Mourinho's long time mouthpiece and basically his PR guy in the media. You think it's a coincidence?

I don't pay any attention to hearsay generally, and I certainly don't pay any attention to gossip that emanates from the media, and I particularly don't pay attention to anything that originates in the tabloid press. I just don't give any credence to stories of that nature.

 

[Loublaze]

I don't pay any attention to hearsay generally, and I certainly don't pay any attention to gossip that emanates from the media, and I particularly don't pay attention to anything that originates in the tabloid press. I just don't give any credence to stories of that nature.

Well maybe you should pay attention and start figuring out which ones are credible because leaks don't come from nowhere. Players, managers and people at the club are responsible for some of the stories being leaked. We saw this during the LVG days as well when many of the rumors about discontent and details about how the dressing room turned against him were confirmed to be true. Duncan Castles is Mourinho's guy, he's been writing and breaking stories for Mourinho since his Chelsea days, including transfers which usually came to fruition, like the Diego Dalot deal before it happened and about Pogba being stripped of the captaincy before Mourinho himself confirmed it a day later. Mourinho trusts this guy. believe that.

 

[wub1234]

Well maybe you should pay attention and start figuring out which ones are credible because leaks don't come from nowhere. Players, managers and people at the club are responsible for some of the stories being leaked. We saw this during the LVG days as well when many of the rumors about discontent and details about how the dressing room turned against him were confirmed to be true. Duncan Castles is Mourinho's guy, he's been writing and breaking stories for Mourinho since his Chelsea days, including transfers which usually came to fruition, like the Diego Dalot deal before it happened and about Pogba being stripped of the captaincy before Mourinho himself confirmed it a day later. Mourinho trusts this guy. believe that.

Nothing is credible, unless I can corroborate it 100%. If someone can show me footage or audio then it's credible. Until then, it's hearsay and gossip.

Go through this Castle guy's Twitter feed, and I can guarantee you that he makes assertions that never come to pass. He's already stating that United held talks with Pochettino, but that he snubbed them. It could be true. It could be crap. How can we ever know?

I don't trust any of them, or pay any heed to any of them.

 

[Loublaze]

Nothing is credible, unless I can corroborate it 100%. If someone can show me footage or audio then it's credible. Until then, it's hearsay and gossip.

Go through this Castle guy's Twitter feed, and I can guarantee you that he makes assertions that never come to pass. He's already stating that United held talks with Pochettino, but that he snubbed them. It could be true. It could be crap. How can we ever know?

I don't trust any of them, or pay any heed to any of them.

Im only touching on his relationship with Mourinho. He has broken numerous Mourinho stories, anyone can clearly see he's Mourinho's mouthpiece in the media. Its been ongoing between them for years.

 

[wub1234]

Im only touching on his relationship with Mourinho. He has broken numerous Mourinho stories, anyone can clearly see he's Mourinho's mouthpiece in the media. Its been ongoing between them for years.

As I've said, I don't give anything in the media any credibility, unless I can corroborate it 100%. That doesn't just go for football. I really don't listen to gossip and hearsay.

However, as I said previously, if Mourinho did say that then I have no doubt that worse things have been said in dressing rooms, and I'm 100% confident that the most successful manager in the history of English football, who also managed Manchester United, said more forceful things.

 

[Loublaze]

As I've said, I don't give anything in the media any credibility, unless I can corroborate it 100%. That doesn't just go for football. I really don't listen to gossip and hearsay.

However, as I said previously, if Mourinho did say that then I have no doubt that worse things have been said in dressing rooms, and I'm 100% confident that the most successful manager in the history of English football, who also managed Manchester United, said more forceful things.

If you don't see the foolishness and recklessness of a manager humiliating a fellow player in front of his teammates with wording like that then I don't know what to say to you. What would be worse in your books? Rooney himself said Fergie never went too far with his criticism and knew which players could take it. Calling one of your players a virus is not even criticism, its just plain insulting and counter productive. You can defend it all you want though, and deny it even happened.

 

[automaticflare]

When Pogba was at Juventus he looked head and shoulders above KDB especially when they met in the CL. Fast forward a few seasons KDB starts playing under Pep and goes up a level, Pogba starts regressing under Jose.

I'm pretty sure when he was at Juve people weren't mentioning his consistency as much as they do now.

People only ever saw husband highlight reel. The dominating and controlling of the teams they played was all done by Vidal and pirlo. In fact in his first season pogba was in and out of the team for marchisio.

 

[haram]

When Pogba was at Juventus he looked head and shoulders above KDB especially when they met in the CL. Fast forward a few seasons KDB starts playing under Pep and goes up a level, Pogba starts regressing under Jose.

I'm pretty sure when he was at Juve people weren't mentioning his consistency as much as they do now.

KDB won footballer of the year in Germany before City purchased him though. That was while playing for Wolfsburg, winning it ahead of players like Robben.

 

[wub1234]

If you don't see the foolishness and recklessness of a manager humiliating a fellow player in front of his teammates with wording like that then I don't know what to say to you. What would be worse in your books? Rooney himself said Fergie never went too far with his criticism and knew which players could take it. Calling one of your players a virus is not even criticism, its just plain insulting and counter productive. You can defend it all you want though, and deny it even happened.

I don't know if it happened, or not. Neither do you.

Players are strongly criticised by managers all of the time, this is nothing remotely new.

 

[Loublaze]

I don't know if it happened, or not. Neither do you.

Players are strongly criticised by managers all of the time, this is nothing remotely new.

There's no point in this debate, you seem to be part of the Mourinho ****.

 

[Striker10]

Ole could be the best thing to happen to Pogba in a long time. We won't see this confusion - where do we play him? That might contradict how we are asked to play. His stats are pretty good considering how poor we've been.

 

[Sayros]

I couldn't care less about him playing with some kid, which is something I never observed. I'm sure he's basically a nice lad. I don't know him. You don't know him.

All I am commenting on is his performances on the field, and many, many people agree with me. Many, many media pundits and observers, all of whom played professional football, agree with me. So I don't think my view can be that unreasonable.

Furthermore, what does prima donna mean?

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/prima donna

Is that a fair description of Pogba? I believe so. And that's why he attracts criticism. Because he acts that way, while producing absolutely nowhere near the level of performance, or even basic commitment, required to justify it.

I hope he does well going forward, but the criticism he has received in the past is both warranted and justified.

You're not commenting on his performances on the field when you call the man a prima donna, which is simply not true. He's got a big personality, people gravitate towards him, insecure people tend to misread that as arrogance or thinking someone is acting like a star. It's just not the case with Pogba, and it's my main criticism of your post. Everything else, you have somewhat of a point, but the prima donna thing is just you recycling nonsense.

 

[FootyGirl88]

KDB won footballer of the year in Germany before City purchased him though. That was while playing for Wolfsburg, winning it ahead of players like Robben.

KDB has always been a good player but last season was better than anything he did at Wolfsberg imo. Pep made him go up an extra level, I'm just trying to highlight the importance of what having a good coach can do.

 

[Jeppers7]

KDB won footballer of the year in Germany before City purchased him though. That was while playing for Wolfsburg, winning it ahead of players like Robben.

A two/three team league and Robben was way past his peak, see how easy it is to downplay ?

Pogba was named in FIFA team of the year before joining united.

 

[haram]

A two/three team league and Robben was way past his peak, see how easy it is to downplay ?

Pogba was named in FIFA team of the year before joining united.

Robben still had 17 goals 7 assists that year. You can downplay KDB being the best player in Germany if thats the agenda you have, sure.

 

[TsuWave]

Strongest virus since the Cordyceps in The Last of Us

 

[mancan92]

Absolutely world class

 

[#07]

Baller

 

[Mick321]

A machine. Next season I fancy him for a 15 goals 15 assists kinda season. Assuming we don't make another daft managerial appointment that is, you never know with us!

 

[Rolaholic]

He's becoming a talisman under a manager who trusts and respects him,who would've thought...

 

[Silas]

Pure HIV. Thoroughly fantastic all around.

 

[Samid]

Virus FC flying high.

 

[el3mel]

These last 3 games are the Pogba we bought all this money for. Unreal performance. Magnificent on the front foot and present everywhere on the pitch. 10/10 easily.

Keep that Pog.

 

[Zoo]

 

[waza7111]

3 successive MOTM performances

 

[Bobski]

One of his very best performances for the club, fantastic from start to finish.

 

[BluesJr]

Infect us all.

 

[haram]

Wonderful footballer.

 

[sullydnl]

Has been absolutely brilliant, albeit against poor teams. Hopefully it continues and he proves us doubters thoroughly wrong.

 

[ha_rooney]

Fantastic again.

 

[Mr.Ridiculous__]

A machine. Next season I fancy him for a 15 goals 15 assists kinda season. Assuming we don't make another daft managerial appointment that is, you never know with us!

He will beat those numbers this season itself.

 

[TwoSheds]

Imperious. 10/10 for 90 minutes. Bournemouth couldn't even be arsed trying to tackle him by the end. If he can play like that every week he's the best player in the world.

 

[Rado_N]

I feel like recreating my "oi Pardew" thread but aiming it at Sourness.

 

[mu4c_20le]

He's ours lads

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Truly world clsss. What a player!

 

[Kush]

Back to back 10/10 performances from him.

Absolute monster of a player.