I think it's fair to call Pogba inconsistent, because it's a fact although in a better system he would still produce something at least every game, it's just the regularity of it throughout the game that's a question. What isn't fair is to call him a diva, unprofessional, or all about himself and no one else. That's never been who he is as a player or a person. It would be a massive mistake to sell him without seeing how he does under a different manager. I hope Valencia smashes United tomorrow and Jose gets the sack...to wait an entire season before the inevitable eventually happens is just wasting another year.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 47
- Goals
- 16
- Assists
- 14
- Yellow cards
- 7
- Red cards
- 1
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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But that isn't a small feat. Not every player can do that. I do agree Pogba isn't the star player to lift a team but he can be a good cog in a machine. A very good cog.
Not in a better system because we have seen him in various systems...but in a team with better quality players around him so that the team doesn't depend on him to make things happen. He is not the type of players who carries the team. He doesn't have it in him.
I think it is fair to call him a diva, unprofessional, and etc. because he has shown lack of effort, complaining when he's on the pitch instead of getting on with the job, social media attention seeking, etc.
You can either stand to be counted or hide behind others. IMO, it is of course easier to play in a team of stars as a cog in a machine than having to stand up, grow up, and take that next step. Unfortunately, he isn't that player we had hoped but his head's gotten too big for his own good now...if he stayed humble, kept his mouth shut, and got on with working hard for the team and the club, he would continue to be supported. Not saying he isn't getting the support from a big portion of our fan base but he's definitely lost quite a few.
I disagree, the lack of effort is something that is systemic in this squad. It's not one or two player sticking out like a sore thumb in the middle of a squad that gives it their all, this is a team that is simply tuning out the coach as that's the only explanation that makes sense. Even the ever-bitter Mourinho has never had a complaint of his professionalism or work in training, neither has Conte, Allegri, or Deschamps. They might question his form, or consistency, but never his professionalism, so I think you are wrong there.
As far as the social media, you have to take the positive with the negative, he's never used it as a weapon against the club or other teams he was with. It brings so much marketing reach to United and money in the coffers, it's just the reality of today's football stars.
Didn't Mourinho, despite all their issues, just praised his training sessions all week? I mean, it must have been an error in the transcribing because Pogba is just this lazy, good-for-nothing guy who's just out for himself and has zero professionalism. That's why Conte/Allegri/Deschamps would complain about him all the time.
Leave it to some of you to trash the one player who actually makes you entertaining to watch and can create something out of nothing. Without him, you'd be an even sadder team to watch and nothing would actually improve.
Captain Snowflake
Top Red..
This notion that we are too reliant on him is absolute bollocks. It's always been about the system. Hate to say it, but Liverpool played brilliant football with Ox, Milner and feckin Henderson in the team. It is also fair to say that considering his attributes Pogba could never play in the same system.
So, it will be about the system and so far Pogba showed his best bits in a quick transition and counter-attacking play while needing to have a great supporting cast. He was also replaced with Pjanic in Juventus and they didn't feel it one bit.
So, it will be about the system and so far Pogba showed his best bits in a quick transition and counter-attacking play while needing to have a great supporting cast. He was also replaced with Pjanic in Juventus and they didn't feel it one bit.
Not a Manchester United fan, my man, never claimed to be one either.
I didn't compare him to Hazard, you're trying to ignore context and just about anything else that doesn't suit your agenda. For what it's worth Hazard is a better player than Pogba, however he's also an individual player. A wide player who's strengths aren't picking out runners with his passing. If the front three are static that could actually help Hazard. It doesn't alter the fact that Hazard has had poor spells of form, in fact he's had poor seasons. Last season being one of them, because guess what ? Chelsea weren't functioning well last season. This season? Guess what ? The teams playing better. Hazards playing better. Ignore this all you like doesn't make it untrue. Pogba's stats, goals and assists are always up there with the likes of KDB. His performances suffer when the team sit back on the edge of their own box and the forwards don't move.
Who's been better than him for United so far this season ? Because Kante outperformed Hazard last season.
I would disagree on this point. I think we could potentially be a better team in the sense that we could be more consistent and dependable. We might see a few less tricks and long pings. I'm all for the no nonsense football with proper work ethics. Not the prancing around that pogba does. I have to say i like Pogba's qualities and skills but his attitude and maturity just stinks!I disagree, the lack of effort is something that is systemic in this squad. It's not one or two player sticking out like a sore thumb in the middle of a squad that gives it their all, this is a team that is simply tuning out the coach as that's the only explanation that makes sense. Even the ever-bitter Mourinho has never had a complaint of his professionalism or work in training, neither has Conte, Allegri, or Deschamps. They might question his form, or consistency, but never his professionalism, so I think you are wrong there.
As far as the social media, you have to take the positive with the negative, he's never used it as a weapon against the club or other teams he was with. It brings so much marketing reach to United and money in the coffers, it's just the reality of today's football stars.
Didn't Mourinho, despite all their issues, just praised his training sessions all week? I mean, it must have been an error in the transcribing because Pogba is just this lazy, good-for-nothing guy who's just out for himself and has zero professionalism. That's why Conte/Allegri/Deschamps would complain about him all the time.
Leave it to some of you to trash the one player who actually makes you entertaining to watch and can create something out of nothing. Without him, you'd be an even sadder team to watch and nothing would actually improve.
It's pretty laughable you're focusing on the 1 or 2 seasons Hazard played poorly while ignoring he won his team the league twice under 2 different managers who are defensively minded and didn't have loads of super stars surrounding, mostly 2 other big players at best in both set ups but you're using him having 1 poor season to justify what Pogba has done for us, which was mostly inconsistent, frustrating performance accompanied with flashes of brilliance here and there. Hazard excelled under different systems, defensive ones actually. He didn't wait Sarri and his attacking football to become to play well. He didn't need that much of requirements we're giving for Pogba to perform consistently, an attacking system, better teammates, 2 defensive midfielders to free him ..etc. Hazard may have one or 2 poor seasons but they're separated by great ones, while Pogba hasn't done anything significant so far in his time here for United.
Whatever you try to defend him with, the reality is Pogba is considered the super star of Manchester United in the same way Hazard, Kane and KDB are considered and it's time for him to start be judged on this basis, on their same standard, not on his teammates standard. It's not much to ask from our 90m star to start performing consistently week in week out like the rest of rivals' super stars around who are winning their teams games on their own. It's not too much really. People seem to have lowered their expectation massively for him. I won't. I don't want flashes of brilliance, I want consistent top performance every week.
What you have done is basically proving my point, that he's getting loads and loads of excuses in the current run due to the toxic environment at the club, his teammates, his manager..etc. Whenever he plays poorly it's because the manager restricts him with defensive formation, his teammates aren't good enough or the others were shite. Once Mourinho goes and Zidane gets while Pogba entering his 4th season this excuses will run out for him I'm afraid.
Go round in circles here.....judge him as you like...judge him solely to your own standards, ignore all context and simply say he should be brilliant every week even if no one else in the team other than the keeper is consistent and the reason is not the players. Ignore everything if it doesn't suit your agenda.
Acknowledge that Hazard has had two poor seasons for the same reason as Pogba, a misfunctioning team. Pretend Hazard, who hasn't scored more than 16 league goals in a season, is Ronaldo like in the way he's apparently 'won' league titles for Chelsea. Ignore that my favourite ever United player Paul Scholes never 'won' the league for us but was part of the reason we won it. He wouldn't have turned this bunch into league winners, regardless that he was better than Pogba.
Your points are pretty worthless. Maradonna perhaps Messi, these sorts of players win leagues on their own. Pogba will never be that player which obviously will suit you because you can bore on the same.
Ok bro. Keep piling up excuses for him if that pleases you. We should just not get him a new manager but a full new squad of top players for him to start performing consistently week in week out, and even if he doesn't after this we'll invent a new excuse for him. They never end and you proved it.
Who's making excuses ? What excuses have I made ? I've said he's largely played well this season. I've pointed to the fact that all players have bad spells of form. Kane has just come out of one and won the sub total of sod all in comparison to Pogba who has won league titles. European trophies and the World Cup. Scholes had games and periods of bad form. He had games away from home in Europe where he did little more than keep shape, and play the odd good pass.
If you want to believe that, solely in the case of Paul Pogba, he should be brilliant every week in a misfunctioning inconsistent team. That's up to you. Feel free to crack on.
I'm not giving excuses for any of our players, but it's not black and white for Matic, Shaw, Valencia or even those like Sanchez or Lukaku who have been truely awful. Context is Pogba and Shaw have been our best performers so far this season and I can't even think of anyone else beyond them to even give a slight nod to.
But yeah crack on slagging him for not being Maradonna
That's fair if that's how you feel, I just think Pogba helps a lot in creating chances for his teammates when there's some movement up front. It's difficult to be consistent when the team's movement is so poor but we'll just agree to disagree on Pogba's attitude, I don't see him the same way you do as far as his attitude. That's not to say the team can't find a replacement that won't be vocal and will have a similar skill-set, but that's very difficult to find someone as good as Pogba is so many areas and even if you do, I feel anybody else will struggle just as much unless the team as a whole improves in its movement. Right now, no one is playing to their perceived level, but I'd say Pogba is one of the few outfield players who has managed to play the closest to a decent level outside of Shaw. He is not a player that will single-handedly drag a team to wins, and he never was to begin with. I'm not sure he'll ever be that, but he's not someone I would let go of without seeing how he performs with a different coach and approach.
People have such short memories. Wasn’t all that long ago that the press were saying the reason Jose bought Sanchez was because he was worried about them lacking creativity when Pogba was out. That would be because we absolutely did.
Carragher is right on some counts, and doesn’t talk or spin the same amount of shit as some pundits. But he can’t say that things won’t change under a different manager. That’s tripe. It’s all about tactics and systems suiting teams and players. One player performs well 7nder a system, another doesn’t. Despite that Pogba has routinely been one of our best players. Without him we’ve looked bereft.
People talk about discipline and yet for France he managed to show immense amounts of it. They talk about him stirring on social media and yet it was Jose that started it by questioning his mentality after winning the World Cup.
Why? I mean if he wanted to get a message across there are better ways to phrase it.
“I am delighted for Paul winning the World Cup and now I’m looking forward to him showing the same passion and commitment in helping us win the Premier And Champions League. Or words to that effect.
Same message. Different tone.
It’s as though Jose can only motivate through brutally exposing players and questioning them. Something he very rarely did when he first joined Chelsea. He used to be just like Fergie, totally deflecting bad performances by players questioning the referee etc.
But now it seems as though his ego has got in the way. He feels he constantly has to justify his ability by having a pop at the players. Sad really.
Carragher is right on some counts, and doesn’t talk or spin the same amount of shit as some pundits. But he can’t say that things won’t change under a different manager. That’s tripe. It’s all about tactics and systems suiting teams and players. One player performs well 7nder a system, another doesn’t. Despite that Pogba has routinely been one of our best players. Without him we’ve looked bereft.
People talk about discipline and yet for France he managed to show immense amounts of it. They talk about him stirring on social media and yet it was Jose that started it by questioning his mentality after winning the World Cup.
Why? I mean if he wanted to get a message across there are better ways to phrase it.
“I am delighted for Paul winning the World Cup and now I’m looking forward to him showing the same passion and commitment in helping us win the Premier And Champions League. Or words to that effect.
Same message. Different tone.
It’s as though Jose can only motivate through brutally exposing players and questioning them. Something he very rarely did when he first joined Chelsea. He used to be just like Fergie, totally deflecting bad performances by players questioning the referee etc.
But now it seems as though his ego has got in the way. He feels he constantly has to justify his ability by having a pop at the players. Sad really.
Shearer said it yesterday clear enough
Yeah, I think a lot of people (even Pogba’s diehards) concede the fact that he is not a game changer in the sense that he can go at it alone sometimes like a Messi or Ronald (or even Zidane). He had much better players around him at Juve and of course the WC with France. That said, is he better than what he is showing? Talent wise definitely yes. Consistency wise, he also should be. I am still of the view that as a midfielder, you need to do your share of defending and need to bust a gut forward and back. When you see him jog back after a turnover that is just grating.
Then why on earth are you hoping for Mourinho to get sacked ASAP in order for United to avoid «wasting time» on him?
You hope Valencia smashes United?
Could you repeat that please. Oh and why do you care about the club if you're not a fan?
Yes. I feel the same way watching play. I always believe that talent only gets you a certain of the way. The successful athletes all have good work ethics and drive to go with it. Heck, there are many successful athletes who are successful despite their relative talent levels because of their work rate.
I feel the same watching Matic, why does he never bust a gut to join the attack. Really infuriating
Man Utd 0:0 Valencia
Like I said, hate him or love him but without him we'd be fecked. The team is already the most boring Man Utd team I have ever watched (yes, worse than LVG's) so if you take him out, I give up 
Tried a lot of stuff. Not great but not the worst player.
Most definitely. Him and Shaw are miles ahead of the other outfield players in terms of actual demonstrable talent. It is clear that Martial joins that group when he comes on to the pitch too, the rest are just not on the same level as footballers. On good days, they bridge the gap with effort and all that shit, but talent wise, Pogba needs help.Like I said, hate him or love him but without him we'd be fecked. The team is already the most boring Man Utd team I have ever watched (yes, worse than LVG's) so if you take him out, I give up
He has his faults, but he is our best outfield player by a mile. He's the only creative player on the pitch. Without him we would suck even more.
I thought he was decent/good.
Worked hard all game relatively.
Worked hard all game relatively.
Was good today.
Run a lot, was constantly available. Good performance.
Definitely harder than in recent games.
Decent work rate, probably our most likely player to score or create. Just needs a better Midfield than Fellaini and Matić.
Imagine if the people who want him gone get what they want.... how are we going to create chances?
Tried to make things happen. Definitely the only one who looked like he would actually create something.
Absolutely not. With LVG United had the most 0-0 draws in a season of any United team ever. Had numerous games with 0 shots on target. Talk about an overstatement.Like I said, hate him or love him but without him we'd be fecked. The team is already the most boring Man Utd team I have ever watched (yes, worse than LVG's) so if you take him out, I give up
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Our only game plan would be Fellaini hoofball. Nothing would be created.
I'm sorry but who are you to tell me what I consider to be the most boring or not
? That's just my opinion on it.Surrounded by shit.
You know what ? Jose bought a new midfielder and recalled one after a loan.
Pogba gets all the abuse for not being good enough, but honestly, there’s no one else in the midfield who’s good enough to pass the ball through a defence. He gets critiqued for not creating or scoring enough. Then it’s because he loses the ball too much and doesn’t keep it simple. Then it’s because he’s not good enough defensively. Then it’s becuse he doesn’t run around enough.
Maybe it’s because he’s the only player who can create chances. Honestly, if someone can tell me different, I’ll happily admit I’m wrong. Sure Rashford and Martial will run at defenders and get crosses in (generally poor ones). But where else is it coming from.
None of the defenders bar Shaw are comfortable past the half way line. Matic is a downgrade on Carrick, who many people thought wasn’t good enough for years. Fellaini. Yeah. Lukaku can barely dribble with the ball, let alone play key passes.
Maybe it’s because he’s the only player who can create chances. Honestly, if someone can tell me different, I’ll happily admit I’m wrong. Sure Rashford and Martial will run at defenders and get crosses in (generally poor ones). But where else is it coming from.
None of the defenders bar Shaw are comfortable past the half way line. Matic is a downgrade on Carrick, who many people thought wasn’t good enough for years. Fellaini. Yeah. Lukaku can barely dribble with the ball, let alone play key passes.
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