I think you drop either of them into a fully functioning world class side and Pogba probably elevates it further. Plus it's the classiness that Pogba does everything with that causes people to rate him higher. He just makes the game look easy when he's on form.
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Yeah that's the perfect player to pair them with, the biggest question is who that player is.
There are no Carrick or Xabi Alonsos knocking about at the moment it'd seem.
Maybe depends on the team/functionality as you say, or just what sort of players/play style that team has. Having both is perfect though. I think in more defensive sides you probably need someone who will force the situation more than a controlled player, so that's why Bruno has had this massive impact for us. We're very sound defensively, but previously didn't have enough creators. Bruno is a high quantity creator, so it fits perfectly. Pogba is capable of creating and controlling, but when he was the lone creative force, he would struggle to create enough to make as big of a difference as Bruno has IMO. Now that both are here, you can't shut them down.
I don't think we necessary need a regista type but rather someone who is good on the ball, can distribute well and has fantastic ground coverage in defensive transition. Partey or Zakaria would be good. Camavinga would be the dream due to his enormous up side.
I don't see either of those as a regista type, I'd class that as Busquets or Pirlo etc. Both Carrick and Alonso did their fair share of defensive work, and fit a similar mold to what Matic provides for us now.
I actually wouldn't be against us going for an experienced player, as the squad is in a good place regarding age, but there's just no one out there.
I've ruled Partey out personally as if we were interested I'd have expected to hear something by now, what with his release clause.
I think a Carrick or Alonso type could struggle in defensive transition if we adopt a front foot approach and push the back line up like City and Liverpool do.
Unless the Carrick or Alonso type is Camavinga who has the physical attributes too, I only see it working in a reactive non imposing sense.
Those tasty passes in and around the box. Football is so fun.Think we should stop with this "obsession" in putting him as one of the dual CDM. It's a boring trade-off.
His top level ability to unlock defenses, dribbling through defensive lines, shooting outside and scoring inside the box are just too valuable to be limited.
Best to play him in a dual 8/CM role alongside Bruno, with the other 3 midfielders at CDM.
This guy is so much class above than any of current united players. Can understand if he is frustrated seeing so many average players around him and want to leave for more competent team.
Just bruno may not be enough to convince him to stay.
Just bruno may not be enough to convince him to stay.
Sancho will.
#Mediocre
Bruno struggled to create yesterday and vs Spurs until Pogba came on. He gives the ball away a lot without Pogba too.
While I get your point, it is very possible that Alcnatara plays in number 6 as he has done alot of times. He is quite good in defence and there will be times him and Pogba with Matic behind them in big games. That's the kind of quality we need in our team.
A Midfield of Matic, Scott, Alcantara, Pogba and Fernandes has got alot of depth and versatility. That alone is enough squard depth and quality instead of going for wannabe footballers. You'd know there is genuine quality and options to play with.
Of course this is all fantasy but that's what I will be doing if I was in charge.
Besides being an exceptional player: The human side of Pogba helping Bruno settle in at United. One of the main reasons why Bruno didn't take long to adapt to life at United/England.
Speaking in a live video with SoccerBible, Fernandes revealed a humble gesture made to him by his French team-mate: “Paul [Pogba] is the guy who came when I arrived with a big book and said ‘where do you want to live, what price you want to pay, house or apartment’.”
“He flicked through the pages. I chose three places and he said okay tomorrow we will check them.
“I decided the next day – then I did the tests, then power tests, the next day I was with the team training and the next day I was playing against Wolves. And that day I went back to Portugal and when I arrived back I had the house. Adaptation in Manchester was really fast.
https://strettynews.com/2020/06/28/bruno-fernandes-ends-negative-agenda-against-paul-pogba/
Speaking in a live video with SoccerBible, Fernandes revealed a humble gesture made to him by his French team-mate: “Paul [Pogba] is the guy who came when I arrived with a big book and said ‘where do you want to live, what price you want to pay, house or apartment’.”
“He flicked through the pages. I chose three places and he said okay tomorrow we will check them.
“I decided the next day – then I did the tests, then power tests, the next day I was with the team training and the next day I was playing against Wolves. And that day I went back to Portugal and when I arrived back I had the house. Adaptation in Manchester was really fast.
https://strettynews.com/2020/06/28/bruno-fernandes-ends-negative-agenda-against-paul-pogba/
Thats a bit of stretch, Thiago hasn't really played as a 6 and he isn't particularly good defensively, he is serviceable when playing alongside the likes of Xabi Alonso, Vidal, Javi Martinez, Rudy, Tolisso or Kimmich who are all better defensively and had more defensive duties. Thiago can play as a deep lying playmaker though.
We wouldn't play Alcantara, Pogba and Bruno in the same team. There's no balance in that midfield. I think you're overstating Thiagos defensive capabilities here. Pogba and Bruno certainly arent going to be benched any time soon, so that only leaves Alcantara. It would only lead to problems.
Yeah, it would add a playmaker when we want to reduce the defensive duties of Pogba and Bruno. On the short term Vidal would be a decent option, he still has legs and long term we could maybe gamble on Camavinga.
He is still the best player in our squad, hope he stays.
It's great to have Pogba and Bruno playing at the same time, Pogba helped create the second goal and Bruno got Ighalo through on goal with a great flick. With just one on the pitch you can block him or mark out the recipient.
Still we need better quality players in the squad for our top players to really shine. Players like Dalot, Pereira and even Mata couldn't keep the general play going.
Still we need better quality players in the squad for our top players to really shine. Players like Dalot, Pereira and even Mata couldn't keep the general play going.
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Yep. If the Spurs and Norwich game taught us anything is that Bruno is not enough to get us the creativity we need against well organized team sitting deep. Heck I mentioned this pre Pogba return that Bruno wasn't going to be enough given I'd already seen is still struggle creating against Wolves and Everton.
Against both Spurs and Norwich we needed Pogba to unlock those teams and the changes were instant the moment Pogba stepped into the pitch.
Pogba is simply a more creative player than Bruno and doesn't require to lose the ball as much to be more creative. These games they've played together should have shown to anyone that Pogba is clearly the better player in a class of his own.
I can see why some would prefer Bruno, but the truth really is Bruno is positively viewed and Pogba is negatively viewed. So Pogba would need to do much more to receive the level of acclaim Bruno does. The Norwich game being an example. First 30 mins Bruno gave the ball away numerous times and Gary Nevilles reaction was ‘he’s the heartbeat of this team’, while Pogba was the one ticking the ball over and setting the tempo. Pogbas chipped pass to Rashford didn’t get a single mention, it was world class. What Pogba could really do with is for someone to finish a couple of his brilliant passes so they can’t be ignored. My opinion is both are fantastic players and I love watching both play. But there’s a negative slant on Pogba, a desire for him not to do well, and it clouds the perception of his performances.
You're right. I remember the chip pass from Pogba, Rashford fluffed in the Sheffield game, the commentator on Sky including Gary were talking about the flick Bruno made earlier to Rashford before he lay off the ball to Pogba for his chip.
The biggest and most amazing skill in that entire sequence was the Pogba's chip yet all the talks were about the Bruno flick. So you're right, Pogba's plays don't get as highlighted as they should given the level of quality they are executed at.
You have to take into account the workrate and pressing that comes from Bruno. He plays at a higher tempo than Pogba and is more able to maintain it throughout a game, that comes from being 4 inches shorter and what must be around 2 stone lighter.
That pressing is necessary for how Ole wants the team to approach games, Pogba can't do it.
That pressing is necessary for how Ole wants the team to approach games, Pogba can't do it.
These games are coming at a ridiculously rushed and fast paced climax that it's only natural that you're going to see even more rustiness in the likes of Pogba and Rashford.
I think the scheduling to get all these games back is ridiculous but that's for another thread.
I think the scheduling to get all these games back is ridiculous but that's for another thread.
ok I’ll wait to see any in Pogba then
Our best player by a mile. This man has barely played this season and he looks the fittest of them all.
I still want to see him pushed up a bit, the way City do it with Dr Bruyne and Silva. But it's probably way outside of Ole's coaching talent to make that work.
Who's the best of the Guardiola lites out there?
Who's the best of the Guardiola lites out there?
When he came on yesterday he played up with Fernandes.
I reckon against defensive teams which will be 90% of times we will get away with it but in big games Matic could come in. It's my opinion though but I get your point. Guardiola is doing it with Gundogan in defensive midfield who is not even as accomplished in defense as Thiago. A step at a time though.
For that to work against the better sides I think it's more down to personnel.
We'd need someone more mobile than Matic imo.
I noticed something similar against Sheffield United. Bruno had given the ball away something like a dozen times and Neville hadn't said a word. Then Pogba gave it away once (in a similar position) and Neville straight away said "That's sloppy by Pogba". It's quite obvious he is subconsciously biased against him. The entire media have bought into the myth of Pogba having been significantly worse and more inconsistent over these years than he actually has been, and because they keep repeating it a significant portion of the public do the same. Then you have Bruno at the opposite extreme at the moment.
Exactly, it's confirmation bias. Its where you notice what reinforces what you already believe and ignore any evidence to the contrary.
People need to be more aware of it as we can convince ourselves we're being objective when we're not.
It happens a lot in football when a player, rightly or wrongly, get a reputation for something.
Its the same reason certain players pick up yellows because they're a 'dirty player' and another player without that rep gets away with similar challenges.
Yeah, I agree with your summations in that thread of what we need, essentially someone that can do what Matic does on his best days but with a lot more mobility and agility and for 50 games a season, it's no good just getting a pure cruncher.
I'm a big believer in technical ability in every role (first touch, ball control) on the pitch. But the prospective new DM has to be technically and physically of a very good level if we're to play a more attack minded game. Someone with the ability to contribute on the ball but also with the defensive nous to transition quickly to defend space in a high risk approach.
I think we were talking about it in another thread about a different position, where ideally in the modern game you want all of your players to be comfortable in possession, as keeping the ball is a big part of the game these days as so many teams employ the high press and any team can do that as they don't need the best players, just hard working ones, and quality on the ball under pressure is the key to combating that tactic.
Completely agree mate.
And you just have to look at some of the most progressive forward thinking coaches in the game today to see that you don't need necessarily need a specific type of DM but rather one that suits you.
I can't think of a more frustrating player than Pogba. It's a strong love-hate relationship.
On his day, he can remind you why you watch this beautiful game in the first place. His ability and grace on the ball is world class. It's like listening to a Mercedes purr into 100mph before you know it. Those flicks, the drag backs, the insane vision, the long passes, the feints, the dribbles - they're simply breathtaking. He is clearly our best outfield player when on form, and by a margin. He can single handedly win us points and trophies, no fecking doubt about it.
Then he's injured and goes on a world tour, and his snake of an agent comes out with absolute bullshit which insults the club, the manager and the fans and Pogba is more likely to publicly agree than distance himself from the toxicity.
If he showed more commitment he could be my favourite player at the club. On the other hand, if his agent keeps talking and he keeps being silent while dreaming about other clubs and bigger paydays, I would like to burn an effigy.
On his day, he can remind you why you watch this beautiful game in the first place. His ability and grace on the ball is world class. It's like listening to a Mercedes purr into 100mph before you know it. Those flicks, the drag backs, the insane vision, the long passes, the feints, the dribbles - they're simply breathtaking. He is clearly our best outfield player when on form, and by a margin. He can single handedly win us points and trophies, no fecking doubt about it.
Then he's injured and goes on a world tour, and his snake of an agent comes out with absolute bullshit which insults the club, the manager and the fans and Pogba is more likely to publicly agree than distance himself from the toxicity.
If he showed more commitment he could be my favourite player at the club. On the other hand, if his agent keeps talking and he keeps being silent while dreaming about other clubs and bigger paydays, I would like to burn an effigy.
What is your concern with where he is during a long-term injury layoff?
And what does ‘Pogba is more likely to publicly agree than distance himself’ mean? Did he publicly agree or not? Because if he didn’t, you’re again falling into the trap of making things up, and then subsequently getting angry about them. If his recuperation in US or Dubai, or the fact that you believe he’s ‘more likely to publicly agree’ with public condemnation of the club then you should perhaps reassess your views.
He’s chosen Manchester United, twice, already in his career. Stop being so insecure. And that goes for him or any other player like De Gea for instance. Why would you want to ‘burn an effigy’ or a player because he wants to go to another club?
We should be able to get CL barring some calamity. We have the first chance in the league and the second in EL, at which point the team should be ready to give it a real go. Ultimately I think Pogba wants to see United heading in the right direction to compete at the top and he is in the best position to confirm it, and hence may sign with or without CL. I can already see the makings of a great team within a season or less, as long as he is part of it. Without him all bets are off, and I won't fathom that scenario without some concrete info from the player himself or the club.
100%
Neville is the worst for it too. He has complete blinkers for some players, rashford, lingard never get a mention when they’re having an off day but martial misplaces 1 pass and it’s “got to do better, needs to hold it up more” etc.
he clearly dislikes pogba because of the situation around him and it shows.
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