Protests following the killing of George Floyd

InLevyITrust said:
To me its the risk to benefit that they are all to willing to take. If I were to expand on all of this I don't think its gun laws that are all the problem, but clearly it plays a part. There police are clearly under trained, there main go to is to draw their weapon as soon as they can no matter what the situation, and once a gun is drawn the likelihood of a shooting escalates dramatically. if we go back to weapon ownership, what real reason does anyone in this day and age have for owning an assault rifle? The answer is none, there is absolutely no reason.
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Vicious and unbreakable cycle though isn't it. Because there are 350m guns in circulation, cops have to assume suspects will have a gun. And a gun can be drawn very quickly. No-one wants to die, and cops are trained to put their safety first. So for this issue, the only solution is mass education insisting that all citizens do not resist any form of police interrogation or arrest, else they are liable to get shot. But then you've ended up as a complete police state, and of course there will be rogue corrupt cops who just want to kill, and crazy or drunk civilians who wont comply.

So you're back to the issue on how do you withdraw 350m guns from a society who have been brainwashed that this is a fundamental human right.

Am sure the top minds in USA have thought about a solution for many many years and cant get to a workable solution. Vicious and unbreakable cycle.

Am sure you know all of this. Anyways we are distracting this thread, this debate has been had in depth in another thread, where I learned alot from many knowledgeable posters on here.
 
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InLevyITrust said:
If I were to expand on all of this I don't think its gun laws that are all the problem, but clearly it plays a part ...

... If we go back to weapon ownership, what real reason does anyone in this day and age have for owning an assault rifle? The answer is none, there is absolutely no reason.
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Gun laws play a huge part. What would you rather have? 1,000,000 (number plucked from my head) racist idiots? Or 1,000,000 racist idiots with easy access to gun?
 
Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
Everything was supposed to be ok after there was a black president. Who knew there'd be such a disgusting backlash.
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This isn’t anything to do with any president, no matter what colour. It’s to do with the fecking imbecilic constitution.

The only western country this stuff happens in is America.

I truly love America by the way, I’ve had some of the best times of my life there but the gun laws are just dumb.
 
arnie_ni said:
the only video ive seen is the one when he was being chased around the car, he shot back hit thr guy in the head then called the police on himself.

But apparently because he was at the gas station protecting property, when that guy starts chasing him there's a possibility this stand your ground law can kick in where you can use lethal force to protect property or your person.

Obviously this is all second hand information and could be total shite, but i wouldnt be surprised if he got if.

@choiboyx012 maybe you'd know better the laws on this
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Sorry, being in CA I’m not too familiar with Stand your ground laws. I’m still confused as to the timeline of each event. He’s definitely “defending himself” when he gets chased and ganged up on by the 2-3 guys with skateboard and handgun (Assault w/deadly weapon), but I don’t know what happened leading up to the first (?) shooting where he shot someone in the head.

It’s now for the court to decide and argue that him illegally having a semi-auto rifle and going into the city to incite violence was reckless enough to negate any event that happens afterwards.
 
Volumiza said:
This isn’t anything to do with any president, no matter what colour. It’s to do with the fecking imbecilic constitution.

The only western country this stuff happens in is America.

I truly love America by the way, I’ve had some of the best times of my life there but the gun laws are just dumb.
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What happened last night is a new and terrifying development. My fear is that we'll see more of this. These vigilantes are heavily indoctrinated and empowered by Trumpism. They'd be doing this no matter what the gun laws were (provided they have access to guns, which they will for a long time in the US).
 
choiboyx012 said:
Sorry, being in CA I’m not too familiar with Stand your ground laws. I’m still confused as to the timeline of each event. He’s definitely “defending himself” when he gets chased and ganged up on by the 2-3 guys with skateboard and handgun (Assault w/deadly weapon), but I don’t know what happened leading up to the first (?) shooting where he shot someone in the head.

It’s now for the court to decide and argue that him illegally having a semi-auto rifle and going into the city to incite violence was reckless enough to negate any event that happens afterwards.
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I'm going to hope that the self-defense argument goes both ways and the fact that he's already shot someone justifies what those other victims did to him.

Plus he's seventeen and from out of state. God willing, he never sees freedom again.
 
Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
What happened last night is a new and terrifying development. My fear is that we'll see more of this. These vigilantes are heavily indoctrinated and empowered by Trumpism. They'd be doing this no matter what the gun laws were (provided they have access to guns, which they will for a long time in the US).
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But the gun laws currently make access and ownership easier right?
 
fergies coat said:
Things are never going to change are they? We're just going round in circles.
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Sadly it won’t. It’s one of those situations where it’s “too little too late”. Whatever laws are implemented it’s only going to be a very small step. You can ban all gun ownership outright, but there’s so many already in circulation and in black markets/criminal groups. Tragedies will continue to happen.
 
Volumiza said:
But the gun laws currently make access and ownership easier right?
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I'm comparing it to Canada (which I always do) and am of the opinion that if those people were here they'd be trying on the same thing under similar circumstances despite our relatively strict gun controls.

Yes, it's realtively easy to legally acquire guns in the US but for the large number of them out there, only a few people have gone this far. While access to firearms plays a role, the majority of people who have them aren't going out to play vigilante in the name of the state and kill people. This is unusual and new, as well as terrifying. These are not people who should have access to guns.
 
Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
Well, proper assault weapons are fully automatic and these are hard to get in the US unless you have loads of money to waste on guns (and ammunition). Not at all practical. Best left to the tourist shooting ranges.

Yes, guns are to shoot things, but they don't have to be living things. That's not very nice at all.
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Well, sharp steak knives are not made to just cut yourself, but you don't let toddlers play with them. Toddlers are exactly what humans are when it comes to empathy and responsibility when it comes to guns.

Dwazza, I bet you are an extremely responsible gun owner. Friends here in WI and back in AL are also extremely responsible gun owners. Hell, the majority of gun owners are probably responsible gun owners. But none of that matters, because there are many who aren't and they cause untold levels of carnage and tragedy. Guns may be used now for shooting non living things, but their very existence stems from humanity's desire to kill more efficiently.
 
Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
I'm going to hope that the self-defense argument goes both ways and the fact that he's already shot someone justifies what those other victims did to him.

Plus he's seventeen and from out of state. God willing, he never sees freedom again.
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I doubt it works like that. Unless he was actively shooting or hurting someone, chasing him down when actively fleeing isn’t grounds for self defense.

But yea, let him rot in prison. One less scumbag.
 
Volumiza said:
Maybe it is unusual and new in one sense but not in the ‘young idiot with a gun’ sense that we’ve seen in US over the years.

Sorry dude, I’m just very anti guns.

Very anti racism also but I’d rather racists not be armed or have such easy access to guns.
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That's fine. I'm not some sort of gun missionary :lol: we're free to have our own views and I'll respect most of them.

I understand that, but the motivation is chilling to me. More chilling than a troubled person who wants the world to burn and lashes out as we have seen so often. What we saw last night are people who have been influenced by ideology. People who have that motivating them and justifying their actions are capable of so much terror and opression. It's ominous for what may come in the US.
 
WI_Red said:
Well, sharp steak knives are not made to just cut yourself, but you don't let toddlers play with them. Toddlers are exactly what humans are when it comes to empathy and responsibility when it comes to guns.

Dwazza, I bet you are an extremely responsible gun owner. Friends here in WI and back in AL are also extremely responsible gun owners. Hell, the majority of gun owners are probably responsible gun owners. But none of that matters, because there are many who aren't and they cause untold levels of carnage and tragedy. Guns may be used now for shooting non living things, but their very existence stems from humanity's desire to kill more efficiently.
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I live under a much more restrictive system of gun control, so it's almost a pointless comparison. I've always acknowledged the US needs change when it comes to guns. AS noted, they dangerous as hell and not to be fecked with. The consequences of not getting this are severe and terrible. It's frustrating and sad that so many Americans see guns and violence as a way to solve their problems.
 
Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
That's fine. I'm not asome sort of gun missionary :lol: we're free to have our own views and I'll respect most of them.

I understand that, but the motivation is chilling to me. More chilling than a troubled person who wants the world to burn and lashes out as we have seen so often. What we saw last night are people who have been influenced by ideology. People who have that motivating them and justifying their actions are capable of so much terror and opression. It's ominous for what may come in the US.
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I’m off to bed in a minute, it’s late and I’m knackered, been a busy day. Done loads of gardening and been in the gym and also naughtily drunk a bottle of wine but I will say this before I go...

Whether they’re ideologically moronic or a youngster wanting the world to burn ... they all have guns in their hands ... same same.
 
WI_Red said:
Proven to work:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act
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Wow, I had no idea about that, thanks for posting that. Amazing that it's those idiots in Missouri were celebrated by the right wing for "guarding" their house against unarmed peaceful protesters and it's the right wing nut jobs with automatic weapons assembling acting like they are an f'n' army. It's absolutely nuts.
 
What are fringe movements in just about any other western country are celebrated and enabled in this country. As long as we continue to have a two party system and a media and corporate machine that thrives on keeping it so- only a semi capable govt can help keep it on the fringes by shifting the conversation away from the extreme. Until the next lunatic installs his band of merry men. Sometimes it makes you wonder if the only way to get a handle on it is to have the states become more independent than they already are.
 
MarylandMUFan said:
Wow, I had no idea about that, thanks for posting that. Amazing that it's those idiots in Missouri were celebrated by the right wing for "guarding" their house against unarmed peaceful protesters and it's the right wing nut jobs with automatic weapons assembling acting like they are an f'n' army. It's absolutely nuts.
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I posted this in another thread, but there is a fantastic podcast from NPR (from the radiolab folks) called More Perfect. They did an episode on the second amendment and covered this and also the fringe group takeover of the NRA. Apparently it used to be a rather benign org that focused on gun safety and it was taken over by a handful of guys who litterally cheated the election process.

https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/radiolab-presents-more-perfect-gun-show
 
The problems isn't only NRA

The number of pro guns vs anti guns is almost equal? Means there will be no consensus without hurting the other majority. In an ideal world if 5% of population hate guns, they'll shut up and vice versa.
You can't confiscate all guns in US, the US law, freedom of speech etc would make it harder to snatch their guns.
Even if you can somehow make the legal work to confiscate them, the logistic and buy back would cripple their economy.
Then there's guns company vested interest
The senators / lawmakers aren't all anti gun

So guns won't likely to go away in the near future.
 
InLevyITrust said:
If this doesn't even make people flinch, America is royally fecked.
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I don't know about everyone else but this seems especially diabolical to me, both sides will be armed soon and we'll have a street battle if it keeps on like this.
 
I often think back to this Tweet from 4 years ago:

 
Volumiza said:
Maybe it is unusual and new in one sense but not in the ‘young idiot with a gun’ sense that we’ve seen in US over the years.

Sorry dude, I’m just very anti guns.

Very anti racism also but I’d rather racists not be armed or have such easy access to guns.
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I don't understand it either. Just ban (have strict laws about owning and carrying) the guns like Europe did and you have solved lots of problems. How Americans can't understand simple truth; more guns=more shooting.
In USA it is "normal" to have bloody assault rifle. Assault rifle! Those things should be allowed only for army. But no, common citizen can go and buy it. Because it is his right.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
I don't understand it either. Just ban (have strict laws about owning and carrying) the guns like Europe did and you have solved lots of problems. How Americans can't understand simple truth; more guns=more shooting.
In USA it is "normal" to have bloody assault rifle. Assault rifle! Those things should be allowed only for army. But no, common citizen can go and buy it. Because it is his right.
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Ban them and then make unauthorised ownership a criminal offence as it is is in most of the civilised world.

I know there are so many guns already in circulation but you have to start somewhere.

Scrub that nonsensical and outdated part of the constitution and move on.
 
Volumiza said:
....Scrub that nonsensical and outdated part of the constitution and move on.
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That‘s not happening though, in the next 20-30 years... US needs to find a way despite of that...
 
Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
I'm comparing it to Canada (which I always do) and am of the opinion that if those people were here they'd be trying on the same thing under similar circumstances despite our relatively strict gun controls.

Yes, it's realtively easy to legally acquire guns in the US but for the large number of them out there, only a few people have gone this far. While access to firearms plays a role, the majority of people who have them aren't going out to play vigilante in the name of the state and kill people. This is unusual and new, as well as terrifying. These are not people who should have access to guns.
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No one should have access to guns, if you want to play solider man on a range use a nerf gun and shoot foam darts at targets.

The only reason for a gun I’d say is self protection but if your gun is locked away in a cupboard not loaded or whatever other security you mention it’s pointless anyway as would take to long to get in an emergency.

the sale of guns should stop, and open carry should stop. simple as that.
 
Inappropriate Behavior
hobbers said:
Specifically killed someone who tried to brain him with a skateboard. It's not a controversial statement, the second and third shootings look like self defence. Islamic terror attacks dont happen in the middle of protests and riots, and dont end with the guy running away to hide behind a line of police cars, bizarre comparison.

End of the day, this is what violent protests, looting and arson are going to result in in modern America. It's inevitable that you'll get kids, pensioners, right wing gun lovers, KKK, normal small business owners, all arming up. Either to protect their property or just to try and start something.
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You're an absolute disgrace.
 
America is a lost cause. Think the US as well know it won't exist in 50 years. Has more features of a war torn failed state than a developed country.
 
What a disgusting place. I've always had a pretty deep dislike of America but at this stage I hope they just burn the place to the ground and start over.
 
Raven said:
Yeah... he's blaming murder victims. It's disgraceful, there is no argument here.
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Do you know the circumstances surrounding the first shooting? Without knowing that I cant say the shootings captured on video can be called murder.
 
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