SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[Garethw]

They really should be giving parents a choice. If you feel comfortable then send them in, if not keep them at home.

100% mate. The school year ends the middle of July, so they will be going back for about 6 weeks. They should write the year off and plan for a full re-open in September.

 

[The Purley King]

alright all you whinging cafeites what exactly would you do differently?
Surely we have to dip our toe in the water now?
See how it goes?
Or shall we all do a terry waite for the next year or two?

 

[SalfordRed18]

Herd immunity is back on

Never left the menu.

Achieve herd immunity, save the economy.

That was always the plan.

 

[SilentWitness]

Eh? You do realise with an economic collapse comes a loss of life too?

The problem we are having is weighing up deaths due to covid 19 Vs deaths due to economic collapse.

It's a balancing act at the moment.

Its got nothing to do with that, eventually people wont even be able to afford to eat. Not everybody has savings to dip into do they.

Because of the way we have constructed the economy - you need more of this imaginary 'money' to survive.

Well hope it’s better than the speech today:

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Would it have been too sensible to have published this an hour or so before making the speech?

 

[arnie_ni]

people were furloughed because there was not enough work for them. Rather than make them redundant.

But he literally just said work from home or go back to work?

Ive obviously totally mis understood what he said and would need to watch it again.

Just deleted the post altogether to save any confusion

 

[arnie_ni]

How do you mean? Surely depends on what job you've been furloughed from?

Im in ni so it doesnt matter for me, but our accountants office was closed and we were furloughed.

If I lived in England id assume i am supposed to be at work tomorrow based on what he said because we werent working from home

 

[TheGame]

Would it have been too sensible to have published this an hour or so before making the speech?

For this Government, yes.

 

[TheGame]

I’m not defending the messaging, because it’s terrible, but obviously don’t go into work tomorrow if you’re currently furloughed. The scheme hasn’t suddenly been switched off, it’ll be down to your employer to make that call. Businesses will need time to adjust their offices or decide who comes off furlough etc.

In terms of the lockdown, it’s basically finished. The only thing you can’t do is go to someone else’s house. If I wanted to meet up with a group of 10 people in a park, I could, so long as we stay two meters apart. Same with family.

There’s two uni’s where I live, which means a lot of groups of students living together. It’s already impossible to tell who does or doesn’t live in the same household, can’t see how it’ll be policed, considering people were already having BBQ’s this weekend in my local park.

How can you say the lockdown has finished when Boris used the phrase this is not the week to end the lockdown? There are just so many mixed messages from what we have heard it’s an absolute shambles. There was no detail to his statements we’ve seen so many different interpretations. Let’s see what the detail brings tomorrow.

 

[TheGame]

Im in ni so it doesnt matter for me, but our accountants office was closed and we were furloughed.

If I lived in England id assume i am supposed to be at work tomorrow based on what he said because we werent working from home

Surely it would depend on each employer contacting their employees about coming back to work?

 

[Steven Seagull]

Im in ni so it doesnt matter for me, but our accountants office was closed and we were furloughed.

If I lived in England id assume i am supposed to be at work tomorrow based on what he said because we werent working from home

you would still be furloughed until your employer says you aren’t. Are you an accountant?

 

[arnie_ni]

you would still be furloughed until your employer says you aren’t. Are you an accountant?

Yea i am. Better with numbers than words obviously haha.

 

[arnie_ni]

Surely it would depend on each employer contacting their employees about coming back to work?

We'll i suppose yea, but he said work from home or go back to work so i duno at all. Maybe im taking it to literal

 

[TheGame]

We'll i suppose yea, but he said work from home or go back to work so i duno at all. Maybe im taking it to literal

Yeah that’s the worry. It would be up to the management of each company to tell their employees what to do.

 

[groovyalbert]

We'll i suppose yea, but he said work from home or go back to work so i duno at all. Maybe im taking it to literal

Imagine most office workers won't be able to just turn up tomorrow. Most offices are overseen by a managing company and they will have a policy in regards to open hours/office times during lockdown.

Think Boris should probably have mentioned somewhere that most people who work in front of a screen in an office should not meet the necessary requirements of physically going into work. I do worry how some cnuty bosses will interpret this.

 

[Wibble]

alright all you whinging cafeites what exactly would you do differently?
Surely we have to dip our toe in the water now?
See how it goes?
Or shall we all do a terry waite for the next year or two?

• They should have locked down hard and early. Closed the borders and enforced 14 days of quarantine at all ports and airports. Use the local empty hotels and get the police to enforce it. Massive fines for flouting the law.
• Then go on the science and not snippets of the science that suit you neo-liberal agenda. The herd immunity without a vaccine thought bubble was insanity.
• Have a PM who didn't nearly die from shaking hands with people in a hospital packed with Covid patients. An actual leader rather than this lumbering buffoon who lurches from ill-connected talking point to stupid slogan but does feck all of use. More a confusion generation machine than a PM.
• Lock down until you have infections and deaths WAY down. Then very very slowly release the lockdown because second and third waves of infection followed by further lock-downs will screw the economy far worse. The ridiculous scenes on VE Day only occurred because of the utter lack of leadership from day 1.

I'm sure there are lots more things these incompetents have done wrong but that is a start.

Now that deaths are starting to reduce - DUE TO THE LOCKDOWN - keep going, lock your borders and get is down low enough so you can slowly reduced restriction so that you don't have multiple waves of infection and lockdowns to get you through to a vaccine which will hopefully be earlier rather than later.

 

[Sied]

Herd immunity is back on

Is there any other option, other than wait for a vaccine?

 

[giggs-beckham]

It’s construction and manufacturing provided you can maintain a safe distance at work. No hairdressers, tattooists, prostitutes etc

it’s the same as before. it’s just weird that he put so much emphasis on it. Maybe just trying to reassure tradesmen that it’s now considered a bit safer. I’ve given up guessing what he’s talking about

I'll be taking on jobs if the phone rings but not because of what Boris has said today (plumber)

 

[Steven Seagull]

Businesses and organisations that must close:

• All non-essential retailers (exceptions below)
• Restaurants
• Cafes, including workplace canteens
• Hotels, hostels, BnBs, campsites and boarding houses for commercial use
• Pubs
• Bars and nightclubs, including bars in hotels and members’ clubs
• Caravan parks/sites for commercial uses
• Outdoor and indoor markets
• Car showrooms
• Auction houses
• Libraries
• Community centres, youth centres and similar
• Hair, beauty and nail salons, including piercing and tattoo parlours
• Massage parlours
• Cinemas, theatres and concert halls
• Museums and galleries
• Bingo halls, casinos and betting shops
• Fitness studios, gyms, swimming pools or other indoor leisure centres
• Arcades, bowling alleys, soft play centres and similar
• Hair, beauty and nail salons, including piercing and tattoo parlours
• Massage parlours
• Spas
• Skating rinks
  
  These are all still closed for now so you can’t work there.

 

[madzo2007]

Im in ni so it doesnt matter for me, but our accountants office was closed and we were furloughed.

If I lived in England id assume i am supposed to be at work tomorrow based on what he said because we werent working from home

I’m in NI as well and work in an office in a car dealer, if I was in England I’d know I wouldn’t be back in tomorrow.

It’s all to do with the industry you’re in
the 50/60 page document should make it clearer. I doubt anyone will just turn up at their office tomorrow without any notice from their company.

 

[Irwin99]

Herd immunity keeps creeping into the discussion again (I suppose it never left). Is there really any evidence for this though? If the virus mutates then herd immunity will probably kill a lot of people for nothing, right?

 

[TheGame]

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[Pogue Mahone]

Herd immunity keeps creeping into the discussion again (I suppose it never left). Is there really any evidence for this though? If the virus mutates then herd immunity will probably kill a lot of people for nothing, right?

Herd immunity isn’t just about people getting sick. The idea of a vaccine is to give herd immunity too. If you don’t get immune after recovering (or if we don’t get an effective vaccine) then herd immunity is off the table. Which isn’t to say we’re doomed. There’s a good chance repeat infections get milder each time.

An interesting theory I heard recently is that the coronaviruses that cause the common cold were as deadly as this one when they first jumped from animal to man. But that was before we had any means of tracking a pandemic. They then evolved to be more and more benign to the point they’re at now. Causing a runny nose, at worst. SARS-COV2 could end up the same, one day.

 

[JMack1234]

I’m not defending the messaging, because it’s terrible, but obviously don’t go into work tomorrow if you’re currently furloughed. The scheme hasn’t suddenly been switched off, it’ll be down to your employer to make that call. Businesses will need time to adjust their offices or decide who comes off furlough etc.

In terms of the lockdown, it’s basically finished. The only thing you can’t do is go to someone else’s house. If I wanted to meet up with a group of 10 people in a park, I could, so long as we stay two meters apart. Same with family.

There’s two uni’s where I live, which means a lot of groups of students living together. It’s already impossible to tell who does or doesn’t live in the same household, can’t see how it’ll be policed, considering people were already having BBQ’s this weekend in my local park.

The 'Lockdown' has been finished for a few days. Anybody can see that roads have been getting busier and in my area people have started having their family and friends around. Which isn't cricket but it's understandable. Separating innocent family, friends, lovers etc for 6 weeks is pretty barbaric.

The modified lockdown is basically impossible police and will totally dissolve when we have a hot weekend.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

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This.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

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Fascinating thread.

 

[Wibble]

Herd immunity keeps creeping into the discussion again (I suppose it never left). Is there really any evidence for this though? If the virus mutates then herd immunity will probably kill a lot of people for nothing, right?

The virus isn't mutating fast and wouldn't be expected to as the moment. A vaccine might speed up mutation but vaccinate fast enough and with a high enough % of people getting the shot we should control the virus.

Herd immunity without a vaccine is either going to take a long time or result in mass death and economic destruction. The only sensible tactic is slowing down the spread to a pace that doesn't overwhelm medical services until we have a vaccine (which now seems likely)

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Big house party next door to us that's just been shut down by the police. Folk on the street arguing with one of the officers saying "you're getting too close to me, you need to maintain 2 meters".

Yes, the twat who was at the party is lecturing the copper about social distancing. Probably my least favourite person on the street though as they are the type to complain about your kids playing in the back garden at midday but are more than happy to blast music at nights and let their dog out for an hour of early morning barking.

Folk are done and they're looking for the slightest excuse to go back to doing what they used to do. Vague language from the Government gives them what they need to justify to themselves that having 30 folk over for a party is fine. It doesn't matter if the Scottish government haven't changed their message, they'll think the UK one overrides it.

 

[Wibble]

Herd immunity isn’t just about people getting sick. The idea of a vaccine is to give herd immunity too. If you don’t get immune after recovering (or if we don’t get an effective vaccine) then herd immunity is off the table. Which isn’t to say we’re doomed. There’s a good chance repeat infections get milder each time.

An interesting theory I heard recently is that the coronaviruses that cause the common cold were as deadly as this one when they first jumped from animal to man. But that was before we had any means of tracking a pandemic. They then evolved to be more and more benign to the point they’re at now. Causing a runny nose, at worst. SARS-COV2 could end up the same, one day.

This sounds like good news about vaccine development

https://www.afr.com/life-and-luxury...XQf9xnZZZC7krsu6iDsT1DyNso#Echobox=1588897884

 

[Klopper76]

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Fascinating thread.

You’d never get Brits doing this. Far too much individualism rather than doing what’s best for everyone.

 

[ManUArfa]

In 12 hours time millions of people may or may not need to go into work...

Considering today’s update has been talked about for weeks, how fecking vague can this man be?

Didn't he say that employers should be encouraging those who cannot work from home to be going back to work? I interpreted the "from tomorrow" to apply to the encouragement aspect, not an instruction for everybody to set their alarms to report in the morning. He's really talking about the sectors that could have been working already, and specifically stated "construction and manufacturing". If such firms, who weren't already continuing to work, haven't been contemplating how to return back with social distancing measures then what have they been doing these last two months?

In the context of visiting parks for their "exercise" they weren't really no. Borris hasn't opened retail arms, he hasn't opened bars pubs restaurants cinemas or anything of the sort. He won't until July. So people can't move about much outside of going to parks or down to Morrisons. All across the UK there have been substantial groups taking a piss with that.

Countless bbqs, garden parties, street parties, park gatherings all over. I see it on Instagram, i see it on the news, everywhere. Now our PM allowing unlimited exercise in parks just makes something unofficially happening now an official thing. Yes it increases traffic but it's not as material as suggested.

Today's announcement represents safe and measured first steps to take based on the fact that, for a lot of people, the absolute lockdown, as it stood, could not continue. We know from the science that respiratory viruses like common colds, flu and COVID-19 spread more in the winter months when people are indoors and/or in close, confined spaces (more so with close friends and families indoors). Allowing unlimited exercise outdoors while maintaining a 2m distance will make little difference to transmission but gives people some of the freedom and social interaction they need for their physical and mental health. Furthermore, the very youngest children are very low risk and those in years 10, 6 and reception/year 1 are the ones who most need some time back at school before September.

alright all you whinging cafeites what exactly would you do differently?
Surely we have to dip our toe in the water now?
See how it goes?
Or shall we all do a terry waite for the next year or two?

Damned if you do and damned if you don't. What do people want? Are they prepared for the whole country and its people to financially and mentally implode by maintaining the ultra strict "stay at home" lockdown rules? The devolved governments need to step up and move to "stay alert" rather than exercising their devolved powers for political purposes.

 

[edcunited1878]

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Fascinating thread.

Is it really though? SK has approximately 1/6 of the U.S. population (52M to 350M) and culturally are way more disciplined. Also, their belief and value systems do not greatly differ when compared to other Koreans in general. To that, many Asian countries have virus protocols in place for decades due to SARS, MERS, etc as it is a real know threat. These key factors are not or have not been identified in the U.S until 3 months ago (the protocols, preparedness). So it's more factual preparedness from years and years and live experience compared to the U.S.

I'm not saying the reaction and preparedness of the U.S. was good as a whole, but you're comparing apples to oranges here.

 

[BluesJr]

The 'Lockdown' has been finished for a few days. Anybody can see that roads have been getting busier and in my area people have started having their family and friends around. Which isn't cricket but it's understandable. Separating innocent family, friends, lovers etc for 6 weeks is pretty barbaric.

The modified lockdown is basically impossible police and will totally dissolve when we have a hot weekend.

Wtf are you talking about.

 

[Greck]

The virus isn't mutating fast and wouldn't be expected to as the moment. A vaccine might speed up mutation but vaccinate fast enough and with a high enough % of people getting the shot we should control the virus.

Herd immunity without a vaccine is either going to take a long time or result in mass death and economic destruction. The only sensible tactic is slowing down the spread to a pace that doesn't overwhelm medical services until we have a vaccine (which now seems likely)

If we're talking strictly about the economy I think their rationale is 5% of the work force dying is still preferable to 100% of the workforce staying home. It's brutal but for them the economic impact of one or two people per department dying is preferable to the entire company closing down

Herd immunity was always more about saving the economy than saving lives

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

I think we’ll have a second lock down before the end of the year.

A first one might have prevented a first one....

 

[JMack1234]

Wtf are you talking about.

Because it is. Separating Human beings from their lovers, friends and family is barbaric.

It's a punishment we reserve for people whose transgression is so serious they need to be sent to prison.

I'm not saying it hasn't be necessary, but I won't clamber onto my high horse and judge anyone who fails at social distancing.

 

[Brwned]

I’m not defending the messaging, because it’s terrible, but obviously don’t go into work tomorrow if you’re currently furloughed. The scheme hasn’t suddenly been switched off, it’ll be down to your employer to make that call. Businesses will need time to adjust their offices or decide who comes off furlough etc.

In terms of the lockdown, it’s basically finished. The only thing you can’t do is go to someone else’s house. If I wanted to meet up with a group of 10 people in a park, I could, so long as we stay two meters apart. Same with family.

There’s two uni’s where I live, which means a lot of groups of students living together. It’s already impossible to tell who does or doesn’t live in the same household, can’t see how it’ll be policed, considering people were already having BBQ’s this weekend in my local park.

It's physically possible but it's not something the government are saying you can do. What we've been told so far is you can go outside with people from your household. Some "government source" said you can meet one other person from outside your household, and tomorrow we might find out that's from multiple households at different times, but the idea of having a small social distancing party anywhere isn't on the cards at all. It won't be until mid-July that more than 4 people can meet up in Ireland for example.

Because it is. Separating Human beings from their lovers, friends and family is barbaric.

It's a punishment we reserve for people whose transgression is so serious they need to be sent to prison.

I'm not saying it hasn't be necessary, but I won't clamber onto my high horse and judge anyone who fails at social distancing.

I thought you said the public were ready to have an adult conversation about it? If that conversation doesn't go the way you want it to, choosing to just ignore the bits you don't like is a bit childish, surely?

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

alright all you whinging cafeites what exactly would you do differently?
Surely we have to dip our toe in the water now?
See how it goes?
Or shall we all do a terry waite for the next year or two?

- Regional management
- 2 weeks notice of potential changes
- 1 week notice of actual change
- Scaled dial back of furlough
- 3 day working week initially, 2 weeks max, scaling up to 5 days
- Directives to ensure non-furloughed staff working from home stay home for another 3-6 months
- Specific orders for at risk groups
- Communicated plans for care homes
- Transparent PPE figures for front line workers
- Top down messaging to ensure flexible working practices
- Industries and businesses identified and put into defined ‘buckets’ of risk
- Time commitments

Just as a quick and easy starter.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

To be frank, I’m not willing to engage in this discussion with you a great deal further. I think you have a habit of rampaging around this thread with an inherently argumentative agenda, with views that aren’t particularly well thought out.

Fair go. I’d argue I have a habit of calling out nonsense. But you do you bud. You’re as entitled to your opinion as I am.

 

[berbatrick]

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Fascinating thread.

There was a thread here posted by @2cents i think about visiting Beijing which sounded similar

 

[Wibble]

The 'Lockdown' has been finished for a few days. Anybody can see that roads have been getting busier and in my area people have started having their family and friends around. Which isn't cricket but it's understandable. Separating innocent family, friends, lovers etc for 6 weeks is pretty barbaric.

The modified lockdown is basically impossible police and will totally dissolve when we have a hot weekend.

I don't think you know what barbaric is.

It is hard to police because of the woeful leadership and confused messaging form the government.