Sergio Aguero | Performances

Donk87 said:
Why from open play only? I never understand why penalties are discounted in discussions like this - you still have to put them in the net. Aguero shared penalty duties last season and Lukaku's had a few himself over the last couple of years. They all count.

More importantly you should add minutes played to the above stats. Lukaku's been on the pitch around 1,700 minutes more than Kun over the last few years, around 19 extra games played. Context matters.

Minutes played since August 2015:
Aguero - 4,937
Kane - 6,066
Lukaku - 6,616

For the record I have no horse in this race. I think Lukaku, Kane and Aguero are all great strikers and definitely the top three in the league over the period being discussed.
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Penalty is a easy goal for a player, player scoring penalties always score more goals as it's a free shot from 12 yards with no defense.

Also player availability is a important attribute, meaning injury prone or not.
 
A thoroughly unpleasant cnut on the pitch but one of the best strikers the EPL has seen. Without him City would not have won a title I believe.

He won't be replaced easily and possibly not at all. City will be much weaker for his continuing decline and eventual departure.
 
roonster09 said:
Penalty is a easy goal for a player, player scoring penalties always score more goals as it's a free shot from 12 yards with no defense.

Also player availability is a important attribute, meaning injury prone or not.
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When handing out the golden boot penalties aren't discounted because they're easy goals. A goal is a goal be it a penalty, a tap in from 3 yards or a screamer from outside the box.

I've always found it odd that fans often debate goals from open play while marginalising penalties. It's another string to the strikers bow to be chosen as your sides penalty taker and it takes real nerve to step up and bear that responsibility for your team. (as an aside, Alan Shearer scored 58 penalties in the premier league - should we discount those when discussing him and view the prem record as 202 goals?)

Fair point on availability, Aguero is certainly more injury prone than the other two, though the poster I responded to was listing goals and assists over a set time frame and when discussing this minutes per goal/assist is important for context (not the be-all and end-all but useful).
 
I still think he's top quality on the pitch. Maybe he's declined slightly but he's still very good.

He's also a total cnut on the pitch too.
 
Donk87 said:
When handing out the golden boot penalties aren't discounted because they're easy goals. A goal is a goal be it a penalty, a tap in from 3 yards or a screamer from outside the box.

I've always found it odd that fans often debate goals from open play while marginalising penalties. It's another string to the strikers bow to be chosen as your sides penalty taker and it takes real nerve to step up and bear that responsibility for your team. (as an aside, Alan Shearer scored 58 penalties in the premier league - should we discount those when discussing him and view the prem record as 202 goals?)

Fair point on availability, Aguero is certainly more injury prone than the other two, though the poster I responded to was listing goals and assists over a set time frame and when discussing this minutes per goal/assist is important for context (not the be-all and end-all but useful).
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Not sure what's so hard to understand, Penalties are easy goals so unfair on strikers who don't take penalties. So at least when comparing you take non penalty goals as it gives better indicator on who is better goal scorer.
 
Donk87 said:
Why from open play only? I never understand why penalties are discounted in discussions like this - you still have to put them in the net. Aguero shared penalty duties last season and Lukaku's had a few himself over the last couple of years. They all count.

More importantly you should add minutes played to the above stats. Lukaku's been on the pitch around 1,700 minutes more than Kun over the last few years, around 19 extra games played. Context matters.

Minutes played since August 2015:
Aguero - 4,937
Kane - 6,066
Lukaku - 6,616

For the record I have no horse in this race. I think Lukaku, Kane and Aguero are all great strikers and definitely the top three in the league over the period being discussed.
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Penalties are considerably easier to score and don't result from players ability. Even the easiest open play goal is harder to score than a penalty becasue you need to find yourself in position to take that chance first, and in order to do that you need to show at least some basic tools.

Even a bad penalty taker will score on 60% or so of all penalties they take. Goals from open play are a much better measure of forward's quality.
 
He had an absolute shocker yesterday. Was constantly taking one touch too many and his antics were disgraceful.
 
Donk87 said:
When handing out the golden boot penalties aren't discounted because they're easy goals. A goal is a goal be it a penalty, a tap in from 3 yards or a screamer from outside the box.

I've always found it odd that fans often debate goals from open play while marginalising penalties. It's another string to the strikers bow to be chosen as your sides penalty taker and it takes real nerve to step up and bear that responsibility for your team. (as an aside, Alan Shearer scored 58 penalties in the premier league - should we discount those when discussing him and view the prem record as 202 goals?)

Fair point on availability, Aguero is certainly more injury prone than the other two, though the poster I responded to was listing goals and assists over a set time frame and when discussing this minutes per goal/assist is important for context (not the be-all and end-all but useful).
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Well, if you had one forward who scored 15 goals but 11 were penalties, and another who scored 12 but none of them were penalties, which of them is likely to have had a better season as a forward?
 
He is a great player, but it annoys me, when he tries to get a player sent off..

He was not touched by Schneiderlin last night, and if he was, it was sneaky by him leaving in his leg...

The ball was there to be won and Schneiderlin won it fairly...Aguero should be punished by TV for getting a player sent off wrongly....
 
roonster09 said:
Not sure what's so hard to understand, Penalties are easy goals so unfair on strikers who don't take penalties. So at least when comparing you take non penalty goals as it gives better indicator on who is better goal scorer.
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Using your logic why then do you not factor in minutes per goal? Surely that's the fairest way to gain a true comparison? If we're removing the advantage Kun and Kane have with penalties then should we not remove the advantage Lukaku has with minutes (and consequently opportunities)?

Sarni said:
Well, if you had one forward who scored 15 goals but 11 were penalties, and another who scored 12 but none of them were penalties, which of them is likely to have had a better season as a forward?
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Well yeah if the goals were skewed that much by penalties then fair enough but they're not. If you're directly comparing two players and one has an absurd number of penalties (like in your example) then sure give us the stats minus PKs to help inform the discussion. But if you're removing a variable like penalties to give an apparently more accurate comparison then other variables (like minutes played) should also be taken into account.

You made a good point in your other post that even tap ins require the player to get in the right position but I'm still on the side of including all goals when discussing players outputs. If you're the main goal threat for your team and you're not designated penalty taker then you need to practice your penalties some more.

Who takes them for your lot this season anyway? With Rooney and Zlatan gone I'm guessing it's going to be one of Pogba or Lukaku? (hoping the latter so the next time this conversation arises we can compare all 3 with PKs!)
 
Donk87 said:
Using your logic why then do you not factor in minutes per goal? Surely that's the fairest way to gain a true comparison? If we're removing the advantage Kun and Kane have with penalties then should we not remove the advantage Lukaku has with minutes (and consequently opportunities)?
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I'm not saying who is better, saying penalties are easy to score and skew the stats as it's easy to score from spot than open play.

Also if you are first choice and playing lesser mins then it's something to be proud of.
 
Donk87 said:
Well yeah if the goals were skewed that much by penalties then fair enough but they're not. If you're directly comparing two players and one has an absurd number of penalties (like in your example) then sure give us the stats minus PKs to help inform the discussion. But if you're removing a variable like penalties to give an apparently more accurate comparison then other variables (like minutes played) should also be taken into account.

You made a good point in your other post that even tap ins require the player to get in the right position but I'm still on the side of including all goals when discussing players outputs. If you're the main goal threat for your team and you're not designated penalty taker then you need to practice your penalties some more.

Who takes them for your lot this season anyway? With Rooney and Zlatan gone I'm guessing it's going to be one of Pogba or Lukaku? (hoping the latter so the next time this conversation arises we can compare all 3 with PKs!)
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Goals are goals indeed and in the end in the books of history you will end up with them included obviously, but I sort of see the point of excluding them when looking at how players are performing on week to week basis.

I think Lukaku will be taking penalties for us although I like the idea of Pogba, he's got a sweet shot and I think he'll convert a lot of them.
 
Believe me, pinalty is not that easy. Especially in Win or Loose situation in competitive game.

Posters who said it is easy, perhaps never been in that situation.

Pinalty has equal value with an open play goal.
 
Aza Boy said:
Believe me, pinalty is not that easy. Especially in Win or Loose situation in competitive game.

Posters who said it is easy, perhaps never been in that situation.

Pinalty has equal value with an open play goal.
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Penalty, tap in, goal from 80 yads are all worth 1 goal, we all know that, we are not in NBA forum.
 
roonster09 said:
Also if you are first choice and playing lesser mins then it's something to be proud of.
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I'm guessing there's a not missing from that sentence? Regardless it's irrelevant. If you're removing a variable to create a more accurate comparison then you need to remove other obvious variables.

I think a better way to look at Kane, Lukaku and Aguero would be to give minutes per goal/assist with a caveat that the first two are regular penalty takers.

Aza Boy said:
Believe me, pinalty is not that easy. Especially in Win or Loose situation in competitive game.
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Spelling of penalty aside I agree with this completely. I used to take spot kicks for my teams and my record for pressure penalties was 50/50 at best. It's a skill in its own right and definitely influences my opinion on the matter.
 
Donk87 said:
I'm guessing there's a not missing from that sentence? Regardless it's irrelevant. If you're removing a variable to create a more accurate comparison then you need to remove other obvious variables.

I think a better way to look at Kane, Lukaku and Aguero would be to give minutes per goal/assist with a caveat that the first two are regular penalty takers.
.
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Why stop there? Add how many chances were put in plate for the strikers considering Kane and Aguero played for much better teams and full of attacking talent.

Yeah, I missed not by mistake.
 
padr81 said:
You do realise how silly that comment is one the back of his most prolific season of his career... His cuntiness makes him better.
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Fair enough. At least we're in agreement he's a massive cnut.
 
Donk87 said:
I'm guessing there's a not missing from that sentence? Regardless it's irrelevant. If you're removing a variable to create a more accurate comparison then you need to remove other obvious variables.

I think a better way to look at Kane, Lukaku and Aguero would be to give minutes per goal/assist with a caveat that the first two are regular penalty takers.


Spelling of penalty aside I agree with this completely. I used to take spot kicks for my teams and my record for pressure penalties was 50/50 at best. It's a skill in its own right and definitely influences my opinion on the matter.
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Agreed. I can't take a pen for shit, despite being a decent finisher in open play .. so yep, big respect for guys who can take them under pressure consistently.
 
Tarrou said:
Fair enough. At least we're in agreement he's a massive cnut.
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Yup but all good players tend to be unfortunately. Nice guys finish last (Juan Mata aside) at least thats what I tell myself everytime I get hammered at anything)
 
Is it possible he could be facing a ban under new rules? He got Schneiderlin sent off by diving.
 
anurag said:
Is it possible he could be facing a ban under new rules? He got Schneiderlin sent off by diving.
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It was clearly shown on the video and discussed by Neville and Carragher last night. Schneiderlin caught him with his trailing leg and under modern rules when coming in at the angle Morgan did its a foul. I thought it wasn't worthy of a yellow but both pundits said its a yellow and the correct decision. Far too many red tinted glasses or that decision.

Both also said Calvert Lewin was a dive with Walker but of course there will be nothing about him getting a ban....
 
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Raees said:
Agreed. I can't take a pen for shit, despite being a decent finisher in open play .. so yep, big respect for guys who can take them under pressure consistently.
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Reminds me of the days of youth football. We had a keeper who took them, one step run up and never missed. As in genuinely had a 100% record over 4-5 years.

Same situation in open play and he couldn't hit a barn door with a banjo. Thrived under pressure.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Reminds me of the days of youth football. We had a keeper who took them, one step run up and never missed. As in genuinely had a 100% record over 4-5 years.

Same situation in open play and he couldn't hit a barn door with a banjo. Thrived under pressure.
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Its weird. Both are pressure situations, but the mindset involved with both is very different. I would say most attacking players who are good finishers are also pretty reliable from the spot, but there are exceptions to the rule.. hence why it should be seen as its own specific discipline and not be tied in with finishing.
 
roonster09 said:
I'm not saying who is better, saying penalties are easy to score and skew the stats as it's easy to score from spot than open play.

Also if you are first choice and playing lesser mins then it's something to be proud of.
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Well if penalties don't count because they are so easy to score, should we count every pen they've won because thats a guaranteed goal!
 
thegregster said:
Since Aug 2015 goals from open play:

Lukaku 23+ 17+3=43
Kane 25 + 20+0 =45
Aguero 21+16+1+38

Assists
Lukaku 12
Kane 8
Aguero 5

Goals and Assists combined.

Lukaku 55
Kane 53
Aguero 43
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Lets be fair about this instead of bending the rules and excluding penalties etc.. Penalties are perfectly legitimate goals and excluding them is downright unfair as they count in every meaningful competition.
We have no way to count pens won that I know of. Leaving them out is desperation to big up United's shiny new hero. Lets go the last 3 seasons instead of 2 as well.

All competitions since August 2015 which will but them on similar minutes and games played.
Aguero - 32 + 29 + 33 + 1 = 95 in 133 games.
Kane - 31 + 28 + 35 + 0 = 94 in 131 games.
Lukaku - 20 + 25 + 26 + 4 = 85 in 136 games

I wonder why you left out penalties etc... The reason for leaving out penalties is kinda clear there. Even leaving out the first season on my list.
Aguero 29 + 33 + 1 = 63 goals in 91 games
Lukaku 25 + 26 + 4 = 55 goals in 88 games
Kane 28 + 35 + 0 = 63 goals in 90 games.

Guess the reason for leaving them out is clearer still. Uniteds shiny new toy doesn't measure up when all goals are counted.
 
padr81 said:
Well if penalties don't count because they are so easy to score, should we count every pen they've won because thats a guaranteed goal!
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I didnt say they dont count.
 
roonster09 said:
I didnt say they dont count.
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Thats true my mistake, but in terms of that post I see no reason why open play only counts except for the op to try and convince everyone Lukaku is better.
 
padr81 said:
Thats true my mistake, but in terms of that post I see no reason why open play only counts except for the op to try and convince everyone Lukaku is better.
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roonster09 said:
I'm not saying who is better, saying penalties are easy to score and skew the stats as it's easy to score from spot than open play.

Also if you are first choice and playing lesser mins then it's something to be proud of.
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Please...
 
ti vu said:
Because he got other players banned by diving, maybe? However shite the opposition is, no team want to get with less player.
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Morgan went through the back of Sergio and took his leg out with his own trailing leg. Not the wisest move on a yellow card.
 
Aguero made a meal of it but Morgan did take him out. I think it was a deserved yellow for over zealous aggression.
 
BobbyManc said:
Aguero was good tonight, he missed a sitter but his general play was strong. Some great movement, hold-up play, dribbling and passing. De Bruyne gave probably the worst performance I've seen him give in a City shirt. No denying Aguero has lost his edge in front of goal though. He'll still score more than enough, but he's no longer as clinical as he used to be.
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I agree. That was probably the best I've seen Aguero play for a while. That outside of the boot chip to Silva who then hit the post was incredible.
 
Kag said:
Irrespective of the fact he's a diving little wankbag, from a performance point he looks like he's lost... something.

I can't really put my finger on it either. He's still a quality player, but that fear factor just isn't there anymore in the way it used to be. Or maybe it's just me.
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He's having to drop into midfield often, which is not his natural game. At his best, Aguero is always going forward with midfielders playing him into channels. With Guardiola, the reverse seems to be true, Aguero's pass for Silva's shot being a good example.

I'm guessing Guardiola's plan is that Jesus will usually drop deep while Aguero will make runs off him. Let's see if that is true and if it can actually materialize.
 
BlueMoonOutcast said:
Morgan went through the back of Sergio and took his leg out with his own trailing leg. Not the wisest move on a yellow card.
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But that's 50/50. Here clearly Morgan was quicker and won the ball cleanly. Aguero was late and never in control of the ball.

Not in control of the ball, and fall into another player, the former should be the one who make the foul (diving).
 
ti vu said:
But that's 50/50. Here clearly Morgan was quicker and won the ball cleanly. Aguero was late and never in control of the ball.

Not in control of the ball, and fall into another player, the former should be the one who make the foul (diving).
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Are you seriously suggesting that it was Aguero, and not Schneiderlin, who committed a foul for the latter's second yellow card?
 
He did not dive, he perhaps made a meal of it but clearly Morgan's trailing leg caught him at the back and cleaned him out.
 
BlueMoonOutcast said:
Morgan went through the back of Sergio and took his leg out with his own trailing leg. Not the wisest move on a yellow card.
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Look at the incident again. Watch how Aguero turns and sees Morgan coming, slightly adjusts his body and leg so and goes into the dive before Morgan's trailing leg reaches him, all the while when Morgan was clean on the tackle and ball. Aguero is an intelligent player but he is no less of a cnut than the likes of Suarez or Costa.
 
Counting penalties as equal is madness. If the striker doesn't take them, one of the other 9 outfield players is definitely going to be good enough to score at a high rate. At most you're talking about a difference of a goal or two.

http://www.myfootballfacts.com/Premier_League_Penalty_Statistics.html

So Prem penalties go in about 80% of the time. I doubt the range between a great taker and a bad one who is still 2nd best in his team of 11 is higher than 10-15% or so. Seems like the best teams average about 6-8 penalties a year, so you're talking about 1 goal per season between a guy hitting 6/7 (85%) or 5/7 (71%).

So, yeah, one goal a year difference for a top team in the league, maybe 1.5-2 for all competitions, and that's assuming your best penalty taker is good and your replacement (again, the #2 option out of 9 other outfield players, so we're not talking about Smalling hitting them, but a technically good player like Matic or Pogba or Mata or Rashford or Shaw/Blind if Lukaku couldn't take them).
 
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