He was in the UK whilst committing the offenses?
Shamima Begum, IS teen wants to come back to the UK
- Thread starter Tommy
- Start date
Whilst wanting to commit acts of terror against the UK…
He was also 7yrs older than Begum, legally responsible for his actions and decisions.
I really don't even know where you are getting at here. I don't support the decision to revoke her citizenship but you are making some really poor comparisons to justify your view that this has been done because the government is racist.
So the difference is he was in the UK while Begum was in Syria.
Or are you thinking of another difference?
There are plenty of Muslims in the UK each year charged with terrorism offenses. This might come as a huge surprise to you @Jericholyte2 but they don't get made stateless for being convicted of these crimes.
Case 1:
- 15 year old, member of an ethnic minority
- Groomed by a gang whilst a minor
- Is groomed to the point where she is convinced to go to Syria and support ISIS
- Is raped by her groomers and loses several children
- Is then punished further for her acts AS A MINOR by having her citizenship revoked
Case 2:
- 22yr old white male
- Joins a far right white nationalist terror group
- Plots acts of terror against UK
- Was originally sentenced to ‘read classic literature’ with a suspended sentence
- Later given a prison sentence
- Never had removal of citizenship considered
This is a poor example to suggest the government is inherently racist in what way?
Indeed, and they’re never scapegoated at all by the government. Never! Not once!
I still find it staggering that people believe that a 15yr old who was groomed and raped also deserves to live the rest of her life stateless.
Wasn't Jihadi Jack stripped of his citizenship same as Begum? But he's white.
So it maybe seems like you're more likely to be stripped of your citizenship if you leave the country to join terrorist death cults based abroad.
So it maybe seems like you're more likely to be stripped of your citizenship if you leave the country to join terrorist death cults based abroad.
Dude, youre totally missing the point here. You asking as a teacher is going to garner a certain response. Now I’m not saying every 15 year old wants to secretly join ISIS, but what 15 year olds think and feel in their closed friendship groups can be different to what they relay to a person in authority.
He looks a bit brown though right @Jericholyte2
And the winner of the DHOTYA 2022 goes to….
Jack Letts had dual citizenship Shamina Begum doesn't. Not even close to comparable.
And the winner of "I don't like what he said so I'm gonna act like it didn't happen" 2022 goes to...
Thursday's a school day in this country, Pexbo. I'm a social studies teacher. Current events is literally something we talk about every day.
Were the cited lawyers wrong?
Is she entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship?
Expert lawyers with experience in Bangladeshi citizenship cases have told the BBC that under Bangladesh law, a UK national like Ms Begum, if born to a Bangladeshi parent, is automatically a Bangladeshi citizen. That means that such a person would have dual nationality.
If the person remains in the UK, their Bangladeshi citizenship remains in existence but dormant.
Under this "blood line" law, Bangladeshi nationality and citizenship lapse when a person reaches the age of 21, unless they make efforts to activate and retain it.
So, it is Ms Begum's age, 19, that is likely - in part - to have given Home Office lawyers and the home secretary reassurance there was a legal basis for stripping her of her UK citizenship.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47310206
The poster was saying the revoking of British citizenship is racist and justified his belief by comparing it to the non revocation of citizenship for white supremacists in the UK. It's a far better example to the one that he gave when you consider that they both travelled to Syria to join ISIS and now can't leave the country as no one wants to take them back.
Are you asking your students if a 15 year old knows what their doing or about the idea of stripping a person off their citizenship?And the winner of "I don't like what he said so I'm gonna act like it didn't happen" 2022 goes to...
Thursday's a school day in this country, Pexbo. I'm a social studies teacher. Current events is literally something we talk about every day.
was she not smuggled into syria by canadian intel agents working with the knowledge of british intel either immediately or immediately after the fact? our intel services are apparently in the child trafficking business now.
Sure JanAnd the winner of "I don't like what he said so I'm gonna act like it didn't happen" 2022 goes to...
Thursday's a school day in this country, Pexbo. I'm a social studies teacher. Current events is literally something we talk about every day.
i can see why it might be difficult to let her back in. how do you try her? you were party to smuggling her into syria in the first instance and witholding that fact from other law enforcement agencies. could easily become a trial of the british state's role in other such activities. though it would likely be a closed trial with national security cited.
Both.
They, by overwhelming majority, think she should have known better than to join ISIS and think that the UK should not let her back in.
what do they think about canadian and british intel smuggling her into syria, or did you ask that? gets more complicated from there on in. when you consider that we foster this kind of fundamentalist madness for instrumental purposes to use against states we don't like, doing all kinds of illegal things in the name of national security and covering them up, and then we apply a different set of rules when it blows back upon us.
How do people not know the difference between an intelligence asset and a spy?
It depends how you define “intel agents.” She was smuggled in by an ISIS operative who was, at the same time, passing on information to Canadian intelligence in the expectation that he’d be granted Canadian citizenship in exchange.
a double agent working freelance with plausible deniability. and the british state knew of it when the met police were actively ignorant. this meets my definition, anyway. they were all in the know. he's working for isis and western intelligence, passing information back and forth, and smuggling children. that's enough for me.
Why should Bangladesh take her?
No, I did not ask that, because I believe it is a non-factor in the entire string of decisions she made in order to go and marry into ISIS. If the double agent wasn't there to smuggle her in, someone else would have.
I'm not sure they should. But that's not pertinent to what I posted. I'm simply showing that "expert lawyers" said she's eligible for Bangladeshi citizenship, so stripping her of UK citizenship wasn't illegal.
Again, not comparable. One, again, was a MINOR!
Which element of extremism did he join…exactly.
In what way does that prove your point? There are no modern day examples of far-right white people from the UK travelling abroad to join a terrorist group at war with the UK. The only apt comparison is people involved in domestic terrorism and those right-wing white people were tried and convicted of their crimes just like the Muslims in the UK involved in domestic terrorism.
Sorry but how many such examples do you know as compared to pretty much all cases of any known terrorists not getting any second chances (and rightly so of course). Depends on country to country but anyone who actively and willingly involved in acts of mass murder against the people of my country shouldn't be setting a single foot around anyone, period. Good thing that's how things go in most cases anyway.
@Jericholyte2 I've just remembered that you were the guy who spammed the David Amess thread saying it was understandable that the terrorist murder did what he did because of austerity. I forgot I was replying to someone who is insane so apologies for having bothered to reply to your nonsense here.
White nationalists join extreme groups, get prison time. A minor is groomed by Islamic extremists, is trafficked to Syria, is raped, loses children and is then not only allowed a return to face trial, but is rendered a non-citizen! If you can’t see the bigotry in that then I guess it shows a few things.
What other comparison do you have that’s even CLOSE to a minor (you’re either deliberately ignoring this fact or just ignorant!) being trafficked out of a country to ‘join’ a grooming gang?
Far from insane but again not comparable. Comments (not spam) we’re based on understanding of the situation at the time, and I stand by an understanding of how people pushed to extremes could reply with extreme actions.
I’m not however in the business of judging MINORS by their decisions after having been groomed. I wonder, are you also of the type who suggest that women who are victims of rape or sexual assault shouldn’t where short skirts or get quite so drunk?
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As I said, the guy's insane. I liked his idea about the government introducing a scheme so every parent could be assessed by social workers twice a week to see if they're allowed to keep their child. At least that one was funny.
I assume you’re aware of the notion of attacking the person over the argument once you’ve realised you’re argument is dead in the water.
So I’ll ask one more time, slowly to help.
Are you in favour of a situation where a 15yr old CHILD was groomed, trafficked, raped, and then left in Syria, not even being granted a right to return to face trial in juvenile courts?
If so then I think you should have a long hard look at yourself and your bigotry.
I mean, you've called me a racist, a bigot and some kind of rape apologist. Why would I continue to bother engaging with someone coming up with these baseless insults? Thinking that you've "won" after the other person makes the decision to stop engaging you because of these moronic statements is a really weird take, but okay. Welcome to my ignore list: population 1.
I'm not sure what you mean about second chances. Out of probably hundreds of examples I'm aware of of either surviving terrorists, members of terrorist groups or terrorist examples, I don't know of anyone getting this treatment.
I know of people being trialed and sentenced to either jail or death. I know of getting no punishment. I know of people stuck abroad. I know of people losing their dual citizenship. I don't know of a single person being made stateless. Not one, except this.
As per previously you’re not actually answering the questions asked, so assumptions will inevitably be made.
What Bangladesh citizenship says is relatively meaningless given she’s a British citizen, and has been one for her whole life. Again though, it’s the UK absolving themselves of any accountability and responsibility. I’m from a BAME background (but British), and it’d scare me shitless if the UK could strip my citizenship because my ethnicity is non-English. This speaks to the whole Windrush scandal we had a few years ago.
Not when UK law says you can strip someone of UK citizenship if they have / are eligible for another. Then it is very relevant to her case, hence the lawyers saying what they said.
Something tells me you don’t have to worry about it unless you run off and marry a member of an enemy combatant terrorist group that’s mid-genocide.