He was in the UK whilst committing the offenses?Three guesses to the difference between that white male in his twenties, and Begum, who was Groomed as a minor.
He was in the UK whilst committing the offenses?Three guesses to the difference between that white male in his twenties, and Begum, who was Groomed as a minor.
Whilst wanting to commit acts of terror against the UK…He was in the UK whilst committing the offenses?
I really don't even know where you are getting at here. I don't support the decision to revoke her citizenship but you are making some really poor comparisons to justify your view that this has been done because the government is racist.Whilst wanting to commit acts of terror against the UK…
So the difference is he was in the UK while Begum was in Syria.Whilst wanting to commit acts of terror against the UK…
He was also 7yrs older than Begum, legally responsible for his actions and decisions.
I really don't even know where you are getting at here. I don't support the decision to revoke her citizenship but you are making some really poor comparisons to justify your view that this has been done because the government is racist.
Case 1:So the difference is he was in the UK while Begum was in Syria.
Or are you thinking of another difference?
Indeed, and they’re never scapegoated at all by the government. Never! Not once!There are plenty of Muslims in the UK each year charged with terrorism offenses. This might come as a huge surprise to you @Jericholyte2 but they don't get made stateless for being convicted of these crimes.
Dude, youre totally missing the point here. You asking as a teacher is going to garner a certain response. Now I’m not saying every 15 year old wants to secretly join ISIS, but what 15 year olds think and feel in their closed friendship groups can be different to what they relay to a person in authority.I've now asked 4 classes, only 1 of them mine. Of that group, only 1 student has said anything other than "she's an idiot, don't send her back" and that person said "okay, I can see how a 15 year old could do that, even if I wouldn't... but they'd have to be the dumbest person in the school".
Maybe you should rethink your opinion of 15 year olds.
He looks a bit brown though right @Jericholyte2Wasn't Jihadi Jack stripped of his citizenship same as Begum? But he's white.
So it maybe seems like you're more likely to be stripped of your citizenship if you leave the country to join terrorist death cults based abroad.
Groomed by a teacher.You are surely aware that this is the point of grooming gangs!?! Make the minor dependant on you, build an unhealthy relationship with them, so when you ask them to go to X or Y play they do so ‘voluntary’ as you say.
If she’d been groomed by a teacher and they ran off to France, police forces in UK and France would be working to return them, prosecute him and rescue her.
The only difference here is context, the type of context being quite obvious.
And the winner of the DHOTYA 2022 goes to….I've now asked 4 classes, only 1 of them mine. Of that group, only 1 student has said anything other than "she's an idiot, don't send her back" and that person said "okay, I can see how a 15 year old could do that, even if I wouldn't... but they'd have to be the dumbest person in the school".
Maybe you should rethink your opinion of 15 year olds.
Wasn't Jihadi Jack stripped of his citizenship same as Begum? But he's white.
So it maybe seems like you're more likely to be stripped of your citizenship if you leave the country to join terrorist death cults based abroad.
Jack Letts had dual citizenship Shamina Begum doesn't. Not even close to comparable.He looks a bit brown though right @Jericholyte2
And the winner of "I don't like what he said so I'm gonna act like it didn't happen" 2022 goes to...And the winner of the DHOTYA 2022 goes to….
Were the cited lawyers wrong?Jack Letts had dual citizenship Shamina Begum doesn't. Not even close to comparable.
The poster was saying the revoking of British citizenship is racist and justified his belief by comparing it to the non revocation of citizenship for white supremacists in the UK. It's a far better example to the one that he gave when you consider that they both travelled to Syria to join ISIS and now can't leave the country as no one wants to take them back.Jack Letts had dual citizenship Shamina Begum doesn't. Not even close to comparable.
Are you asking your students if a 15 year old knows what their doing or about the idea of stripping a person off their citizenship?And the winner of "I don't like what he said so I'm gonna act like it didn't happen" 2022 goes to...
Thursday's a school day in this country, Pexbo. I'm a social studies teacher. Current events is literally something we talk about every day.
was she not smuggled into syria by canadian intel agents working with the knowledge of british intel either immediately or immediately after the fact? our intel services are apparently in the child trafficking business now.She was not kidnapped. She went voluntary. Your comparisons of grooming for sex holds no value here
Sure JanAnd the winner of "I don't like what he said so I'm gonna act like it didn't happen" 2022 goes to...
Thursday's a school day in this country, Pexbo. I'm a social studies teacher. Current events is literally something we talk about every day.
Both.Are you asking your students if a 15 year old knows what their doing or about the idea of stripping a person off their citizenship?
what do they think about canadian and british intel smuggling her into syria, or did you ask that? gets more complicated from there on in. when you consider that we foster this kind of fundamentalist madness for instrumental purposes to use against states we don't like, doing all kinds of illegal things in the name of national security and covering them up, and then we apply a different set of rules when it blows back upon us.They, by overwhelming majority, think she should have known better than to join ISIS and think that the UK should not let her back in.
It depends how you define “intel agents.” She was smuggled in by an ISIS operative who was, at the same time, passing on information to Canadian intelligence in the expectation that he’d be granted Canadian citizenship in exchange.was she not smuggled into syria by canadian intel agents
a double agent working freelance with plausible deniability. and the british state knew of it when the met police were actively ignorant. this meets my definition, anyway. they were all in the know. he's working for isis and western intelligence, passing information back and forth, and smuggling children. that's enough for me.It depends how you define “intel agents.” She was smuggled in by an ISIS operative who was, at the same time, passing on information to Canadian intelligence in the expectation that he’d be granted Canadian citizenship in exchange.
Why should Bangladesh take her?Were the cited lawyers wrong?
Is she entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship?
Expert lawyers with experience in Bangladeshi citizenship cases have told the BBC that under Bangladesh law, a UK national like Ms Begum, if born to a Bangladeshi parent, is automatically a Bangladeshi citizen. That means that such a person would have dual nationality.
If the person remains in the UK, their Bangladeshi citizenship remains in existence but dormant.
Under this "blood line" law, Bangladeshi nationality and citizenship lapse when a person reaches the age of 21, unless they make efforts to activate and retain it.
So, it is Ms Begum's age, 19, that is likely - in part - to have given Home Office lawyers and the home secretary reassurance there was a legal basis for stripping her of her UK citizenship.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47310206
No, I did not ask that, because I believe it is a non-factor in the entire string of decisions she made in order to go and marry into ISIS. If the double agent wasn't there to smuggle her in, someone else would have.what do they think about canadian and british intel smuggling her into syria, or did you ask that? gets more complicated from there on in. when you consider that we foster this kind of fundamentalist madness for instrumental purposes to use against states we don't like, doing all kinds of illegal things in the name of national security and covering them up, and then we apply a different set of rules when it blows back upon us.
I'm not sure they should. But that's not pertinent to what I posted. I'm simply showing that "expert lawyers" said she's eligible for Bangladeshi citizenship, so stripping her of UK citizenship wasn't illegal.Why should Bangladesh take her?
Again, not comparable. One, again, was a MINOR!Groomed by a teacher.
Not Groomed by freaking abu bakr al baghdadi!
Which element of extremism did he join…exactly.He looks a bit brown though right @Jericholyte2
In what way does that prove your point? There are no modern day examples of far-right white people from the UK travelling abroad to join a terrorist group at war with the UK. The only apt comparison is people involved in domestic terrorism and those right-wing white people were tried and convicted of their crimes just like the Muslims in the UK involved in domestic terrorism.Which element of extremism did he join…exactly.
Sorry but how many such examples do you know as compared to pretty much all cases of any known terrorists not getting any second chances (and rightly so of course). Depends on country to country but anyone who actively and willingly involved in acts of mass murder against the people of my country shouldn't be setting a single foot around anyone, period. Good thing that's how things go in most cases anyway.Is it? Almost every time a young terrorist or terrorist sympathizer is in the media spotlight there's a lot of focus on what lead up to it and how it happened: social circles, trips abroad, Internet activity, etc. After Philip Manshaug murdered his adoptive sister and attacked a mosque in an attempt to start a race war there were endless talk and written articles about his life. His changing personality, reaction from his friends, both during and after the fact, his social isolation, his Internet activity.
Manshaug got a trial and is in prison now. He is still a Norwegian citizen. We've also had several so-called "IS brides", as far as I know they're still Norwegian citizens.
White nationalists join extreme groups, get prison time. A minor is groomed by Islamic extremists, is trafficked to Syria, is raped, loses children and is then not only allowed a return to face trial, but is rendered a non-citizen! If you can’t see the bigotry in that then I guess it shows a few things.In what way does that prove your point? There are no modern day examples of far-right white people from the UK travelling abroad to join a terrorist group at war with the UK. The only apt comparison is people involved in domestic terrorism and those right-wing white people were tried and convicted of their crimes just like the Muslims in the UK involved in domestic terrorism.
Far from insane but again not comparable. Comments (not spam) we’re based on understanding of the situation at the time, and I stand by an understanding of how people pushed to extremes could reply with extreme actions.@Jericholyte2 I've just remembered that you were the guy who spammed the David Amess thread saying it was understandable that the terrorist murder did what he did because of austerity. I forgot I was replying to someone who is insane so apologies for having bothered to reply to your nonsense here.
I assume you’re aware of the notion of attacking the person over the argument once you’ve realised you’re argument is dead in the water.As I said, the guy's insane. I liked his idea about the government introducing a scheme so every parent could be assessed by social workers twice a week to see if they're allowed to keep their child. At least that one was funny.
I mean, you've called me a racist, a bigot and some kind of rape apologist. Why would I continue to bother engaging with someone coming up with these baseless insults? Thinking that you've "won" after the other person makes the decision to stop engaging you because of these moronic statements is a really weird take, but okay. Welcome to my ignore list: population 1.I assume you’re aware of the notion of attacking the person over the argument once you’ve realised you’re argument is dead in the water.
So I’ll ask one more time, slowly to help.
Are you in favour of a situation where a 15yr old CHILD was groomed, trafficked, raped, and then left in Syria, not even being granted a right to return to face trial in juvenile courts?
If so then I think you should have a long hard look at yourself and your bigotry.
I'm not sure what you mean about second chances. Out of probably hundreds of examples I'm aware of of either surviving terrorists, members of terrorist groups or terrorist examples, I don't know of anyone getting this treatment.Sorry but how many such examples do you know as compared to pretty much all cases of any known terrorists not getting any second chances (and rightly so of course). Depends on country to country but anyone who actively and willingly involved in acts of mass murder against the people of my country shouldn't be setting a single foot around anyone, period. Good thing that's how things go in most cases anyway.
As per previously you’re not actually answering the questions asked, so assumptions will inevitably be made.I mean - you've called me a racist, a bigot and some kind of rape apologist. Why would I continue to bother engaging with someone coming up with these baseless insults? Thinking that you've "won" after the other person makes the decision to stop engaging you because of these moronic statements is a really weird take, but okay. Welcome to my ignore list: population 1.
What Bangladesh citizenship says is relatively meaningless given she’s a British citizen, and has been one for her whole life. Again though, it’s the UK absolving themselves of any accountability and responsibility. I’m from a BAME background (but British), and it’d scare me shitless if the UK could strip my citizenship because my ethnicity is non-English. This speaks to the whole Windrush scandal we had a few years ago.I'm not sure they should. But that's not pertinent to what I posted. I'm simply showing that "expert lawyers" said she's eligible for Bangladeshi citizenship, so stripping her of UK citizenship wasn't illegal.
Not when UK law says you can strip someone of UK citizenship if they have / are eligible for another. Then it is very relevant to her case, hence the lawyers saying what they said.What Bangladesh citizenship says is relatively meaningless given she’s a British citizen, and has been one for her whole life
Something tells me you don’t have to worry about it unless you run off and marry a member of an enemy combatant terrorist group that’s mid-genocide.I’m from a BAME background (but British), and it’d scare me shitless if the UK could strip my citizenship because my ethnicity is non-English.