Theon
Lord of the Iron Islands
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2011
- Messages
- 13,292
Helping NMYou playing?
Helping NMYou playing?
The official FIFA site has everything. It's a bit bothersome to navigate, but it's all there. The 1930 World Cup, for instance:Anyone know where you get booking stats for the older tournaments?
Yeah, which raises the question if sending offs/cautions before that one smart UEFA official got bored in front of a traffic light and came up with the idea of cards count as well.There were no cards in the earlier tournaments!
There were truckloads of options, just realised looking up sheep, absolute trainloads actually.Just realized I could and should have picked Heynckes.
Wikipedia is better, as you get a whole group/all of the knockout stages on one page - very quick to skim the yellow cards.The official FIFA site has everything. It's a bit bothersome to navigate, but it's all there. The 1930 World Cup, for instance:
http://www.fifa.com/tournaments/archive/worldcup/uruguay1930/index.html
Select "matches" and then click on the final score to get the stats/data from the match, including full line-ups, bookings, etc.
Either there wasn't a single booking in 1930 or the stats regarding cautions (which are bookings as far as I know) are incomplete/completely missing. I definitely know that to be true for some of the games in the 50's and 60's. The expulsions are listed correctly from what I know though.The official FIFA site has everything. It's a bit bothersome to navigate, but it's all there. The 1930 World Cup, for instance:
http://www.fifa.com/tournaments/archive/worldcup/uruguay1930/index.html
Select "matches" and then click on the final score to get the stats/data from the match, including full line-ups, bookings, etc.
Wiki has the same problem with the tournaments before 1970, at least from what I've seen in the German and English wikipedia pages.Wikipedia is better, as you get a whole group/all of the knockout stages on one page - very quick to skim the yellow cards.
There were red cards. Right?There were no cards in the earlier tournaments!
Players were sent off, but no one got shown a red card before 1970 as far as I know.There were red cards. Right?
So if it was a final match, then other years are permissible.On the second part. If you pick players from one semi final, and one player is blocked, you can only choose from that same semi final, or the other semi final of the same year.
Yeah, some of the dismissals are missing from older tournaments, but it's not really that relevant for this round (with the one exception).Either there wasn't a single booking in 1930 or the stats regarding cautions (which are bookings as far as I know) are incomplete/completely missing. I definitely know that to be true for some of the games in the 50's and 60's. The expulsions are listed correctly from what I know though.
Wiki has the same problem with the tournaments before 1970, at least from what I've seen in the German and English wikipedia pages.
That's true in the sense of being shown an actual red card - but players were sent off before that, as early as 1930, in fact.Players were sent off, but no one got shown a red card before 1970 as far as I know.
AFAIK they only started keeping record in 1970. If managers are able to show proof of cautions in world cup matches before then...I'll accept it.Yeah, which raises the question if sending offs/cautions before that one smart UEFA official got bored in front of a traffic light and came up with the idea of cards count as well.
@Skizzo needs to make a call here.
Is wiki proof enough for red cards before 1970? It lists some.AFAIK they only started keeping record in 1970. If managers are able to show proof of cautions in world cup matches before then...I'll accept it.
I think there are records of dismissals (players sent off) but not of cautions (which were given, just like latter day yellow cards but not recorded). So, you'd have to dig up a match where two players were sent off in the same match - or two players who were sent off at the same stage. The latter could be possible, I suppose.AFAIK they only started keeping record in 1970. If managers are able to show proof of cautions in world cup matches before then...I'll accept it.
Wiki would be fine.Is wiki proof enough for red cards before 1970? It lists some.
Unless you are actually planning to play him, why?shouldn't people know their sheep before they plan for the next round @Skizzo
If you choose a player from a final, and one Player is blocked, you'll need to pick two players from another match. No jumping between years for matches.So if it was a final match, then other years are permissible.
If it was a semi/quarter, then within the same tournament only?
This is confusing. Can we align both?
Correct. The absence of cards and any sort of disciplinary follow-up also makes the stats complete dogshite. All you can really go on as fact is expulsions pre-1970 as there was no tallying up of cautions and suspensions for accumulating them. They were in-game affairs so once the game was over no one gave two fecks about recording them.Players were sent off, but no one got shown a red card before 1970 as far as I know.
Even during the game they were more or less meaningless, right? The 2nd yellow = red rule wasn't introduced until the early 90's, so a caution pre 1970 meant feck all. From 1970 onwards it at least meant you could miss a game later in the tournaments if you collected a 2nd one in another game.Correct. The absence of cards and any sort of disciplinary follow-up also makes the stats complete dogshite. All you can really go on as fact is expulsions pre-1970 as there was no tallying up of cautions and suspensions for accumulating them. They were in-game affairs so once the game was over no one gave two fecks about recording them.
Exactly, it was akin to a ref cautioning a player these days, just a warning. It's pretty obvious they did it a lot more often than has been recorded and, AFAIC, they don't have the same status as a yellow card. Not at all.Even during the game they were more or less meaningless, right? The 2nd yellow = red rule wasn't introduced until the early 90's, so a caution pre 1970 meant feck all. From 1970 onwards it at least meant you could miss a game later in the tournaments if you collected a 2nd one in another game.
Yeah, any blocked player from any round goes to the blocked list. Those players are now unavailable for the rest of the draft.@Skizzo just to make sure, because it isn't mentioned in the rules in the op. Blocked players are blocked for good, right? Not just for the criterion; e.g. Beckenbauer is still blocked now and can't be picked.
True. Though you can come across old match reports in which it is mentioned that such and such player was cautioned by the ref - and it certainly was common to report it when someone was sent off. But it wasn't officially recorded (i.e. the ref didn't actually write anyone's name in his little book) prior to 1970, when the present system with yellow and red cards was introduced.Correct. The absence of cards and any sort of disciplinary follow-up also makes the stats complete dogshite. All you can really go on as fact is expulsions pre-1970 as there was no tallying up of cautions and suspensions for accumulating them. They were in-game affairs so once the game was over no one gave two fecks about recording them.
Where did you pop up from?Meh, give him Rafa