Giggs shouldn't be this condition we impose on every Manchester United manager. The next manager shouldn't be forced to work with him. And Giggs really should go and do some real managerial work. It's about time to put your reputation at risk, rather than stand on the shoulders of others to gain experience and credit.
Whenever van Gaal goes, Giggs should go too...
- Thread starter Hitchcocker
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
It wouldn't be the first time in our history. When Wilf had the reins, players went behind his back and complained to Matt Busby and he listened. Same when O'Farrell was here. It started happening with the Doc too after he made some unpopular decisions. It happened with Moyes too and it could be happening to Van Gaal. As I say, it's nothing new.
Giggs needs to prove himself by winning the Dutch league with a team like AZ Alkmaar.
Yeah what he did wasn't right. Only added more pressure on LVG
My, oh my. What a lot of short memories on here!! The guy has devoted his entire career to United, refused to go elsewhere for bigger money and you lot of shits berate him for being a number 2 to what has turned out to be a pretty poor manager. If he did break rank, which I very much doubt, well good on him. He finally got up and put a rocket under the arses of the team, which should have been done a long time ago.
This.
I don't get the 2what he did wasn't right" brigade
Right now what LVG is doing isn't working, Gigg's has been kept off the touchline all season, maybe it has eaten away at him all this time and he just thought feck this I have had enough of sitting here like a lemon next to butthead whilst the team flounder around without direction
I think Giggs has done enough for us that he deserves to be given the benefit of the doubt, also maybe he already knows that LVG is out and thinks what the hey I don't have to sit next to that tosser anymore!
As for being the next or interim manager, he hasn't done anything to prove himself but then he hasn't done anything to prove his failure would be assured either! if I am not mistaken (and I could be I am tired) Pep had no experience prior to Barca, Moanrinhio had no experience prior to Porto, both Moyes and LVG have extensive experience and success to point to... where has that gotten us?
Right now what LVG is doing isn't working, Gigg's has been kept off the touchline all season, maybe it has eaten away at him all this time and he just thought feck this I have had enough of sitting here like a lemon next to butthead whilst the team flounder around without direction
I think Giggs has done enough for us that he deserves to be given the benefit of the doubt, also maybe he already knows that LVG is out and thinks what the hey I don't have to sit next to that tosser anymore!
As for being the next or interim manager, he hasn't done anything to prove himself but then he hasn't done anything to prove his failure would be assured either! if I am not mistaken (and I could be I am tired) Pep had no experience prior to Barca, Moanrinhio had no experience prior to Porto, both Moyes and LVG have extensive experience and success to point to... where has that gotten us?
I agree. Giggs should go cut his teeth elsewhere first. We need total unity at #1 and #2.
There's two parts to this really.
1) Good on him for doing what he should have done.
2) In no way should be be forced upon United managers or become our manager.
Why?
He has done nothing wrong.
He has done nothing wrong.
He's been assistant manager to the last two unsuccessful managers. At what point does that start to count against him? Do we force him as an assistant on the next guy as well?
Lots of Sir Alex's players have gone into management and how many of them are at the top of the game winning trophies? I don't see anything in Giggs that makes him so unique we just hand him the keys to OT without proving himself.
I didn't see the game, but I find it very unsettling seeing Ryan Giggs referred to as a 'rat' and a 'snake.' It's Ryan Giggs FFS!
Welcome to the new era of "fans"
Pathetic really. We're talking about one of United's most decorated, loyal (on the football pitch at least,) servants, and people have the gall to call him a rat. Beggars belief really.
Aye, it's a bit unpleasant. Especially when he hasn't done anything particularly wrong as far as we know.
Basically he was on the touchline giving orders. He also did this, along with Albert, last week at Bournemouth. For some reason last week it didn't matter. This week it does. Two weeks on the spin he's been on the touchline and people here think LVG didn't ask Giggs to give orders. Thus this means, to some, Giggs is a rat and got up, on his own, to make a point. Great conclusion!
Rightly or wrongly the name calling of Giggs is likely down to what happened in his personal life rather than what he did as a United player/assistant manager.
Frankly, having any of the coaching staff off their asses and doing something is preferable to the inaction we've seen on the touchline this season.
It's not about kicking him out because he's been a shit assistant, it's the fact that he will inevitably be kicked out when Van Gaal is replaced, assuming he isn't the replacement. And obviously he shouldn't be the replacement.
Doesn't matter if it's Mourinho, Pep or Guardiola, none of them will accept having Giggs forced on them as assistant manager. LVG only accepted it because he's retiring in 2017 regardless, so wouldn't have to worry so much about looking over his shoulder at his replacement should the knives come out. Younger managers wouldn't be so accommodating - "I'm only 44/52/56 why the feck should I have to train my potential replacement"
Doesn't matter if it's Mourinho, Pep or Guardiola, none of them will accept having Giggs forced on them as assistant manager. LVG only accepted it because he's retiring in 2017 regardless, so wouldn't have to worry so much about looking over his shoulder at his replacement should the knives come out. Younger managers wouldn't be so accommodating - "I'm only 44/52/56 why the feck should I have to train my potential replacement"
My thoughts exactly. If anything Van Gaal should be the one criticised for it. Last season he stated he didn't stand on the touchline to give orders as players couldn't hear him yet for the last two weeks they've suddenly been able to hear.
I wouldnt have a clue whether Giggs has done anything behind the scenes bheind the coaches back, and nobody else on here does either. Seeing him referred to as a rat etc is ridiculous, as are calls for him to be blamed for the current mess.
He is part of the coaching staff, they have collectively done poorly and so collectively take the blame. Van Gaal is ultimately the manager and so he is the figurehead of the coaching staff, and for me takes the most blame as he is steering the ship.
Giggs should take the opportunity to go find himself a manager gig and continue his development. If he thinks he is ready to manage Manchester United then he is delusional, he does not have the experience necessary to take over and be successful. He needs to gain experience first and prove himself elsewhere, if he is good enough he will then have the track record that allow the club and fans to welcome him as manager. Until then, though, it's just a pipe dream for him, and I don't Ed is willing to gamble on Giggs given the precarious state the club finds itself in right now (let's not forget, Ed's job will also be in question if we appoint yet another manager who fails).
He is part of the coaching staff, they have collectively done poorly and so collectively take the blame. Van Gaal is ultimately the manager and so he is the figurehead of the coaching staff, and for me takes the most blame as he is steering the ship.
Giggs should take the opportunity to go find himself a manager gig and continue his development. If he thinks he is ready to manage Manchester United then he is delusional, he does not have the experience necessary to take over and be successful. He needs to gain experience first and prove himself elsewhere, if he is good enough he will then have the track record that allow the club and fans to welcome him as manager. Until then, though, it's just a pipe dream for him, and I don't Ed is willing to gamble on Giggs given the precarious state the club finds itself in right now (let's not forget, Ed's job will also be in question if we appoint yet another manager who fails).
When it becomes reality. He wasn't Moyes assistant.
Frankly speaking, I don't have any idea on what Giggs job has been there, and I refuse to blame him for anything in this spell. LVG seems like the kind of guy who the first thing he does in the morning is go near a mirror and tell himself how awesome he is. I doubt he listens to anyone.
Saying that, I don't think that we should automatically continue with Giggs as assistant manager when we sack LVG (now is when, not if). If the new manager wants him, great; otherwise, welcome to the world Ryan.
Unless, we decide him to become our new manager. Which is kind of crazy, but a debate done to death.
Saying that, I don't think that we should automatically continue with Giggs as assistant manager when we sack LVG (now is when, not if). If the new manager wants him, great; otherwise, welcome to the world Ryan.
Unless, we decide him to become our new manager. Which is kind of crazy, but a debate done to death.
I agree. I'm not sure if it's right or wrong either, but it's not surprising that people draw inferences from choices he made in his personal life to make assumptions as to his trustworthiness in his professional capacity. Anyway, if and when Van Gaal gets kicked out, Giggs should follow. Great player but that doesn't mean he gets a sinecure in the United dugout.
Can we put to bed the myth that Giggs was somehow forced on LVG. The truth of the matter was that LVG wanted (or at least was happy to have) Giggs, due to his extensive knowledge of the club and players, and his connections to the players, as well as preventing any sort of language barrier from occurring.
Nor by the way was he forced on Moyes - he was given a player-coach role like plenty of senior players are.
I am in two minds on this one, on the one hand I would like to see Giggs given a chance until the end of the season. We have seen a lot of young managers doing well in the PL this season with limited experience. Anyone who doubts the importance of player-manager relations need only watch the Chelsea game today - same tactics, completely different performance. If there is a chance that our players have similarly downed tools with LVG (though not to extent that Chelseas did), then we would arguably be better off with no manager at all than LVG continuing (again, Chelsea today are the case in point).
On the other hand, it seems madness to be appojting Giggs when Mourinho and Ancelotti are out of work, and Pep's future is undecided (though he admittedly looks City-bound at this point, sadly).
Nor by the way was he forced on Moyes - he was given a player-coach role like plenty of senior players are.
I am in two minds on this one, on the one hand I would like to see Giggs given a chance until the end of the season. We have seen a lot of young managers doing well in the PL this season with limited experience. Anyone who doubts the importance of player-manager relations need only watch the Chelsea game today - same tactics, completely different performance. If there is a chance that our players have similarly downed tools with LVG (though not to extent that Chelseas did), then we would arguably be better off with no manager at all than LVG continuing (again, Chelsea today are the case in point).
On the other hand, it seems madness to be appojting Giggs when Mourinho and Ancelotti are out of work, and Pep's future is undecided (though he admittedly looks City-bound at this point, sadly).
Irish Republicans or American Republicans?I'm really not serious. Republicans are cool.
good on him for being aware of that at least
Agree. Think Giggs is probably seething with what he has been seeing from the team and has definite ideas. Looks like he is going to get that chance to sink or swim as it doesn't look like we will get Pep or Carlo.
I suspect you will be buying a razor blade sooner than you think mate...
The first few pages of this thread is shocking.As if Giggs can be in the touchline barking orders for 2 weeks if Van Gaal didn't allow it.
For Giggs as a manager,I definitely won't accept Jose Mourinho anywhere near this football club and I'm sure many at the club think the same so if we can get the manager role sorted out for 2016-2017 like Bayern did then I wouldn't be against Giggs as an interim manager again under the end of the season.As some other posters said sometimes having a manager who has good relationship with the team can temporarily lift the atmosphere up and that's what we need at the moment and we finally can see how good (or bad) he is as a manager or does he has "it" to become official Manchester United manager one day.There's not many good manager available to take over the team right now and even if we go for Jose some of the squad won't be happy with it especially Mata.
For Giggs as a manager,I definitely won't accept Jose Mourinho anywhere near this football club and I'm sure many at the club think the same so if we can get the manager role sorted out for 2016-2017 like Bayern did then I wouldn't be against Giggs as an interim manager again under the end of the season.As some other posters said sometimes having a manager who has good relationship with the team can temporarily lift the atmosphere up and that's what we need at the moment and we finally can see how good (or bad) he is as a manager or does he has "it" to become official Manchester United manager one day.There's not many good manager available to take over the team right now and even if we go for Jose some of the squad won't be happy with it especially Mata.
People are entitled to their opinion, no matter how ignorant and biased. Do see the argument that he may need to risk himself a bit more and get some experience as a head coach elsewhere, but to call him a rat... sheesh.
He's been part of two failed regimes so he should definitely go. The while thing on the touchline was strange. If LvG sanctioned it then fair enough but it did look like Giggs had broken rank IMO. And as much as people want to dismiss the whole 'personal life' incidents as not relevant to football, the fact is that Giggs' character is extremely questionable. That doesn't take away what he did for us on the pitch, he will always be a legend, doesn't make him a good person though.
I'm not sure why it had to be Giggs in the technical area anyway. If van Gaal wanted to influence the game he should have done it himself.
I'm not sure why it had to be Giggs in the technical area anyway. If van Gaal wanted to influence the game he should have done it himself.
Scholes is next.
That's a slippery slope though. I imagine a good number of the players we've loved have had dodgy personal lives. The fact is, he comported himself impeccably as a United player and deserves better than being labelled a 'rat' by so-called fans on here.
On the pitch he certainly did. Away from the pitch though he has done some questionable things, and unfortunately his attachment to United means it is not a good look. No high profile business would be happy with an employee doing that sort of stuff.
Would be some achievement.
Well I don't really remember it being a big problem at the time (certainly didn't seem to effect his performance on the pitch.) I'm sure his family was messed up by it, but his contributions to the team remained stellar.
I'd call him a lowlife scumbag myself.
He'll probably be part of two managerial regimes that have failed. The time will have come for him to go out of his comfort zone and prove he's an excellent manager in the making. Don't want him at Swansea, but that would have been a good job for him to cut his teeth in management.
Yeah, as much as I don't want him anywhere near the manager's job, seeing him called such things is quite shocking. The man's a fecking legend of the club.