[roonster09]

I must've missed Salah scoring a goal a game at Fiorentina or Roma. I must've missed KdB being a midfield general at Werder Bremen. Losing Martial would be far worse than losing Salah, Lukaku and Kdb at Chelsea. Martial is ready for the top level while those 3 players were not when they were frozen out of the team!

It's arguable whether they were mistakes in the first place because Chelsea had ready made players in their positions and have won the league multiple times since their departure.

The only way selling Martial is acceptable is if we replace him with someone like Dybala, who is at a good age profile and a very good player. Selling Martial outright and not adding to the squad would be a sackable offense! We do not have the luxury like Chelsea had of having a title winning team.

They went and performed from the word go at Fiorentina, Bremen and Wolfsburg, which shows how good they were when they were loaned out.

Ofcourse it's arguable, it's long term planning vs no plan, Chelsea had no plan and lost so many superb players.

Their attack would have been KdB, Salah, Lukaku, Hazard with Matic and Kante in midfield and that's near unstoppable attack.

If you don't give young players chances then they will look for transfer, that's the way it is. That's when your man management skills are so important. Will see how this will go under Jose when he is the manager who takes 0 responsibilities.

When you have players like Martial, Rashford who are young with lot of potential, as a coach he should be doing more to come up with different plans to play them.

 

[JK-27]

As a professional footballer, it's your job to put in the effort, selected or not. As a player, it's on you to make the most of the playing time you do get. Martial can be a phenomenal player. However, he is not showing it right now. He's not getting selected to start (which can only mean he's not putting in the effort in training or not doing what the Manager is asking him to do, which as a professional footballer is not good. It's your job to do what the manager asks and put in the effort).

I've been at the games he's featured in as a sub. I have to say, he doesn't look interested. When he loses the ball he either makes a gesture to the player the ball was intended for as if it's there fault for not being where he put the ball, or he makes a half hearted attempt to get the ball back. You've been brought on to change the game, and you stroll around like you don't care?

He has pace to burn, I've not seen a full back who can keep up with him, but instead of taking his man on, getting to the line and crossing, or taking him on and cutting inside to take a shot or lay someone up, he holds the ball up, waits or expects someone to run outside him, or cuts inside where the midfielders are and gets tackled/tries to take on too many players and loses the ball. This is not his game. He's best taking people on one to one or making the run in behind for a through ball from Pogba/Mata/Sanchez/Lingard etc. For whatever reason, he is not playing to his strengths, is not learning from his mistakes, and is not helping out the team. He 100% cand and could do, but he isn't.

It's a bit similar to Ronaldo when he first arrived, all tricks and pace but no end product. Martial is the same. Ronaldo had Keane, Scholes, Ferdinand, Giggs etc to chew him out when he didn't do the right thing, and he improved to become the player he has. I don't see anyone in the Utd team now doing the same to Martial, telling him to stop fekcing around and produce the end product.

If Martial doesn't make it as a Utd player it is down to him, and him alone. He has the talent, but he is not producing. He has to change and do what works for the team. He has not done enough or have enough clout for the team to adapt to him. If he doesn't produce, I don't think we should be so upset about a player leaving because he's not producing.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

The two are completely different. Salah was not good when he was at Chelsea, and it took him multiple years at Roma to get to a top level.

Martial is already good enough to play as a squad player for us, and if he improves then he will play for the best teams in the world (Madrid, Barca, Bayern etc.), not Arsenal or Spurs.

I don't personally understand what Martial has done better than what Salah did at Chelsea. Obviously we can see talent is there, but it's not being consistently shown.

If United put Martial on the transfer list next month, I think Spurs and Arsenal is about the level where he would end up. What's he done so far to warrant a move to a Bayern or PSG? He won't even be in the France team for the WC

 

[Roeindo]

I can't understand why some of us here wanted us to sell Martial while asking the club to buy that Dembele from Fulham. That boy will be wasted here under JM.

 

[Sayros]

As a professional footballer, it's your job to put in the effort, selected or not. As a player, it's on you to make the most of the playing time you do get. Martial can be a phenomenal player. However, he is not showing it right now. He's not getting selected to start (which can only mean he's not putting in the effort in training or not doing what the Manager is asking him to do, which as a professional footballer is not good. It's your job to do what the manager asks and put in the effort).

I've been at the games he's featured in as a sub. I have to say, he doesn't look interested. When he loses the ball he either makes a gesture to the player the ball was intended for as if it's there fault for not being where he put the ball, or he makes a half hearted attempt to get the ball back. You've been brought on to change the game, and you stroll around like you don't care?

He has pace to burn, I've not seen a full back who can keep up with him, but instead of taking his man on, getting to the line and crossing, or taking him on and cutting inside to take a shot or lay someone up, he holds the ball up, waits or expects someone to run outside him, or cuts inside where the midfielders are and gets tackled/tries to take on too many players and loses the ball. This is not his game. He's best taking people on one to one or making the run in behind for a through ball from Pogba/Mata/Sanchez/Lingard etc. For whatever reason, he is not playing to his strengths, is not learning from his mistakes, and is not helping out the team. He 100% cand and could do, but he isn't.

It's a bit similar to Ronaldo when he first arrived, all tricks and pace but no end product. Martial is the same. Ronaldo had Keane, Scholes, Ferdinand, Giggs etc to chew him out when he didn't do the right thing, and he improved to become the player he has. I don't see anyone in the Utd team now doing the same to Martial, telling him to stop fekcing around and produce the end product.

If Martial doesn't make it as a Utd player it is down to him, and him alone. He has the talent, but he is not producing. He has to change and do what works for the team. He has not done enough or have enough clout for the team to adapt to him. If he doesn't produce, I don't think we should be so upset about a player leaving because he's not producing.

You have a very short memory if you don't think Martial has been producing this season. He has been one of the most productive players on the team. Perhaps his body language isn't what you like to see, but you can't say the lad hasn't produced. It's simply false.

As far as his lack of movement, I agree he's not making runs all game long like a Lingard, but he is making runs. It's just 9 times out of 10, the ball doesn't come to him. Now I think he has a bit of field rustiness given how Jose has relegated him to the bench for Sanchez, but if he plays significant minutes next game, I can promise you that you will see him making runs and he will most likely not get the ball because the team is poor at rewarding players going on runs.

 

[haram]

As far as his lack of movement, I agree he's not making runs all game long like a Lingard, but he is making runs. It's just 9 times out of 10, the ball doesn't come to him. Now I think he has a bit of field rustiness given how Jose has relegated him to the bench for Sanchez, but if he plays significant minutes next game, I can promise you that you will see him making runs and he will most likely not get the ball because the team is poor at rewarding players going on runs.

Yes, blame Mourinho and the other players. You dont support United so you are more than willing to keep throwing this shit around.

 

[divad]

People keep talking about Martials dribbling. Can anyone actually point to me the last time he had a full back on toast?

Can anyone point to any of our wingers dribbling their full-back? No, since they always face a wall of defender due to how we set up and our slow passing. Martial is our best player in 1v1 situations, but how can he get 1v1 when our wingers act like second full-back?

 

[Milkman007]

I like how people expect him to take on players and get involved in the attack when he was playing left wing-back, he didn't have anyone behind him and no one in front of him, whats he supposed to do, dribble past their whole right side? Maybe some pass and go and leave our whole left side for west-brom to counter?

 

[Bestietom]

There was good competition between Martial and Rashford and both seemed happy enough to alternate each week. Then we bring in Sanchez who hasn't pulled up trees and has broken down most of our good moves. We should have went for Mahrez and left the 2 boys fight it out on the left.

 

[Wade3]

They went and performed from the word go at Fiorentina, Bremen and Wolfsburg, which shows how good they were when they were loaned out.

Ofcourse it's arguable, it's long term planning vs no plan, Chelsea had no plan and lost so many superb players.

Their attack would have been KdB, Salah, Lukaku, Hazard with Matic and Kante in midfield and that's near unstoppable attack.

If you don't give young players chances then they will look for transfer, that's the way it is. That's when your man management skills are so important. Will see how this will go under Jose when he is the manager who takes 0 responsibilities.

When you have players like Martial, Rashford who are young with lot of potential, as a coach he should be doing more to come up with different plans to play them.

This poist is spot on and addresses two key points: Longevity and man management. The former is being portrayed as a weakness of Mourinho while the latter clearly is one. Those who have his trust are players who will die for him, those who don't despise him and it's down to his inability to balance a side properly. As much as he can establish a siege mentality with his team, he's also managed to divide teams in the past. That is clearly part of the problem in the case of Martial.

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

Can anyone point to any of our wingers dribbling their full-back? No, since they always face a wall of defender due to how we set up and our slow passing. Martial is our best player in 1v1 situations, but how can he get 1v1 when our wingers act like second full-back?

He's not very good 1 v 1 in my opinion.

 

[Pexbo]

I do find it weird the protection Martial gets when he’s one of the main offenders for half of the caf’s complaints.

 

[divad]

He's not very good 1 v 1 in my opinion.

wich we clearly saw when he played for lvg, where he created 1v1 almost everytime, i suggest you go watch even highlights from that season and see where he picked up the ball compared to now, mourinhos wingers are more midfielders then attackers so its no wonder he doesn't produce, and saying martial is not good 1v1 is the dumbest thing ive read on this forum.

 

[Verminator]

You can have valid excuses for many disappointing problems players have. Form, system, chemistry etc.
But not for lack of effort.

 

[MadDogg]

The rest of the teams movement isn't poor at all and it has nothing to do with the lack of coaching.

Our off-the-ball movement is absolutely terrible. Has been for years. It's one of the reasons Lingard regularly makes such a big difference for us, purely because he's often the only player in the team who seems to know what runs to make at the right time.

Martial's movement is the worst of all, but pretty much nobody (barring Lingard) is good at it.

 

[togg]

I don't personally understand what Martial has done better than what Salah did at Chelsea. Obviously we can see talent is there, but it's not being consistently shown.

If United put Martial on the transfer list next month, I think Spurs and Arsenal is about the level where he would end up. What's he done so far to warrant a move to a Bayern or PSG? He won't even be in the France team for the WC

Yes I reckon Arsenal would take him, they tend to buy our rejects! However, I doubt Poch would come in for him. The one thing about Poch's team is that every player works their socks off for him and each other. A very energetic team, full of running from everyone. Marital doesn't have that industry, he's pretty lazy most of the time and his movement is poor.

 

[Catt]

When it comes to our players ( Martial included ), there is a split on opinions in here about players based on their relationships with a manager.

I don't want Mourinho at United beyond this season and I'm still not impressed with Martial

 

[ash_86]

He's defiantly not a winger. I can't remember how many times he tucked in centrally instead of making the pitch wider. Until he or Manger finalizes his position (Full time LW or ST) i don't think he's going to be useful. We have enough wingers and desperately needs someone who can make the pitch wider.

 

[SidRed]

Jose really messed up by playing Sanchez in LW just when this guy was coming into form. Still feel he should start all games as LW with Sanchez RW.

 

[Sterling Archer]

I do find it weird the protection Martial gets when he’s one of the main offenders for half of the caf’s complaints.

It's mostly an anti Mourinho thing. Same with Rashford when he doesn't play or has a few bad games .

I guess they're also more fashionable than Lingard. Never seen him get that kind of protection from the cafe

 

[fallengt]

Tbh, just sell him. Mou isn't getting the best out of Martial and clearly doesn't like his playstyle.

Get some money back, buy players for Mou's bus, Martial goes to club that willing to take risk. Everyone is happy.

 

[Rash Decision]

I find it odd that this guy is so polarising. So overrated by some, and yet so harshly criticised by others. I don't think his performances this season have been good enough to make him an automatic starter (he goes invisible too much), but he's clearly one of the most talented first teamers we have, and is worth persevering with. It would be a massive shame for the club to let him leave.

I'm honestly baffled that there hasn't been noticeable improvement to his game because surely the coaches should be able to work with so much natural ability. The lack of progress suggests either that he has an absolutely rubbish attitude, or the coaches are doing a terrible job. Going by the performances of the other attacking players, I'm tempted to go with the latter.

He was superb under LVG, but he has stagnated hard and something needs to change for his sake, and the sake of the team in general.

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

wich we clearly saw when he played for lvg, where he created 1v1 almost everytime, i suggest you go watch even highlights from that season and see where he picked up the ball compared to now, mourinhos wingers are more midfielders then attackers so its no wonder he doesn't produce, and saying martial is not good 1v1 is the dumbest thing ive read on this forum.

Cool so in order to prove he's good at 1v1, I should reference some highlights from three seasons ago.

 

[breakout67]

I find it odd that this guy is so polarising. So overrated by some, and yet so harshly criticised by others. I don't think his performances this season have been good enough to make him an automatic starter (he goes invisible too much), but he's clearly one of the most talented first teamers we have, and is worth persevering with. It would be a massive shame for the club to let him leave.

I'm honestly baffled that there hasn't been noticeable improvement to his game because surely the coaches should be able to work with so much natural ability. The lack of progress suggests either that he has an absolutely rubbish attitude, or the coaches are doing a terrible job. Going by the performances of the other attacking players, I'm tempted to go with the latter.

He was superb under LVG, but he has stagnated hard and something needs to change for his sake, and the sake of the team in general.

It's just that certain posters overrate him so much that everyone else looks harsh on him in comparison.

When asked about Martial, the vast majority will want him to stay and consider him a top player in the making. But there are some that actually want to hand the keys of the whole club to him because they are convinced he'll have a Ronaldo like impact on us.

His stats are usually brought up. And there is this idea that you give him more minutes and he'll maintain that level. So they actually think that Martial would be approaching 30 goals and 30 assists at the end of the season if he played non stop. Thats bordering on Ronaldo and Messi numbers at 22 years old. It's a ludicrous belief.

 

[divad]

Cool so in order to prove he's good at 1v1, I should reference some highlights from three seasons ago.

well yes, since we played completely different, none of our winger are getting in 1v1 situations anymore because they play way too deep, and that is taking away Martial strenght. Hes good at holding the ball up, quick layoffs,good burst of pace, deadly in 1v1 situations and a good finisher, when he almost plays behind the midfield line how are we getting use of hes abilities? he will probably be replced by a workhorse winger and when mourinho is gone and we realise we have to play pro active football Martial would be missed.

 

[Sayros]

But there are some that actually want to hand the keys of the whole club to him because they are convinced he'll have a Ronaldo like impact on us.

I’m really curious if you could find even one post of someone saying anything remotely close to that. If we’re talking about his stats then yeah, unfortunately for your argument they are better than Cristiano’s first three years. I don’t think think anyone has made the assumption he is or will be anything close to him or that he should hold the keys of the club. Now, I'm not checking on this thread each and every day, but I think that's highly exaggerated on your part.

 

[Rash Decision]

It's just that certain posters overrate him so much that everyone else looks harsh on him in comparison.

When asked about Martial, the vast majority will want him to stay and consider him a top player in the making. But there are some that actually want to hand the keys of the whole club to him because they are convinced he'll have a Ronaldo like impact on us.

His stats are usually brought up. And there is this idea that you give him more minutes and he'll maintain that level. So they actually think that Martial would be approaching 30 goals and 30 assists at the end of the season if he played non stop. Thats bordering on Ronaldo and Messi numbers at 22 years old. It's a ludicrous belief.

I don't think it's just a relative thing, some criticisms of him are objectively over the top. Seems more like there's an element of Newton's law, action leading to an equal opposite reaction thing when it comes to Martial. It's very pronounced because Martial is a huge fan favourite - you can see a number of "Martial hater" taglines being handed out whereas you don't see any "Rashford hater" or "Lingard hater" ones despite there being clear candidates.

 

[Ashley R1+O]

Martial's movement is the worst of all, but pretty much nobody (barring Lingard) is good at it.

Sorry to single this post out as I pretty much don't agree at all that our attacking movement is poor. Our play in the final third might be sloppy at times, lack the extra man and cohesion to deliver adequate final passes. But the movement of the team is not poor. Martial's movement, however is poor.

I am not buying that Mata, Lingard, Sanchez, Rashford Pogba and Lukaku's movement is poor, at all. There is a lack of synergy and a lack of the extra man creating an overload, but I completely disagree that the teams movement is poor.

We need real fullbacks, a proper right sided player and the extra midfield player to bring Pogba's level up a notch. (Whoever that is, I don't know)

Martial's problem is that if he doesn't want to play on the left flank then ride the pine until Lukaku's injured. If he doesn't want to sack up and earn it then he can leave.

 

[Acole9]

I was really hoping he'd prove Mourinho wrong on Sunday but he was rubbish, West Brom players nicked the ball off him so easily. Didn't even chase them down for it.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

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[Damien]

Not a big fan of the M.E.N but from their live blog:

Anthony Martial leading way in stats
Anthony Martial has the fifth best minutes per goal or assist rate in the Premier League this season - and the best out of United’s squad overall.

The Frenchman has been directly involved in a goal every 98.2 minutes this season and only finds himself behind Mo Salah, Sergio Aguero, Raheem Sterling and Harry Kane in the overall list.

Martial will be desperate to end his recent drought against Bournemouth tonight and put himself in the picture for United’s huge FA Cup semi-final on Saturday.

I did look at the first name that came to mind (Sané) as that stat sounded a bit dodgy to me and his mins per goal/assist are exactly the same as Martial.

 

[NikSab]

Jose really messed up by playing Sanchez in LW just when this guy was coming into form. Still feel he should start all games as LW with Sanchez RW.

Why didn't he show that form afterwards? So one guy coming in can spoil your form? If he was doing something everytime he came on after we signed Sanchez, Jose would have definitely tried to play Sanchez elsewhere. But 3 months later he is still lazy and wants to leave because he doesn't have enough balls to fight for his position.

 

[Milkman007]

Why didn't he show that form afterwards? So one guy coming in can spoil your form? If he was doing something everytime he came on after we signed Sanchez, Jose would have definitely tried to play Sanchez elsewhere. But 3 months later he is still lazy and wants to leave because he doesn't have enough balls to fight for his position.

Well since Sanchez came in he has played a total of 110 mins as a lw (if you count last game vs WBA as playing lw) he has managed 1 assist in that period, not much time to show what he is capable of is it? You mention he doesn't have enough balls to fight for his position, he obviously is going to need minutes to show anything wouldn't you agree? Since Sanchez came he has played a total of 290 minutes of football, 180 mins from the Rw where he obviously is not as impressive, and when he gets minutes its often a few minutes at the end of games. No one can expect consistency from a player who don't get consistent playing time.

 

[whatwha]

We need to get Martial in shooting positions more often. He's pretty clinical.

 

[MUFC OK]

Still has the potential to be the best outfield player at the club with more game time and confidence. We should not entertain him leaving under any circumstance.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Not a big fan of the M.E.N but from their live blog:



I did look at the first name that came to mind (Sané) as that stat sounded a bit dodgy to me and his mins per goal/assist are exactly the same as Martial.

Goals/minutes always look good for players that score goals coming off the bench. Morata had similarly great stats at Madrid, for the same reason. Giroud would be right up there too, in any other season. His goal/minute stats were better than Harry Kane’s at some point last season. Martial’s biggest problem this season has been an inability to look as threatening in games he starts as he does in games when he comes on as a sub. If we compared productivity in 90 minute performances he’d probably be miles away from all those players (and Sané)

 

[Adisa]

Not a big fan of the M.E.N but from their live blog:



I did look at the first name that came to mind (Sané) as that stat sounded a bit dodgy to me and his mins per goal/assist are exactly the same as Martial.

He's our most productive player by some distance.
We are already a team that doesn't produce much.

 

[breakout67]

Goals/minutes always look good for players that score goals coming off the bench. Morata had similarly great stats at Madrid, for the same reason. Giroud would be right up there too, in any other season. His goal/minute stats were better than Harry Kane’s at some point last season. Martial’s biggest problem this season has been an inability to look as threatening in games he starts as he does in games when he comes on as a sub. If we compared productivity in 90 minute performances he’d probably be miles away from all those players (and Sané)

When it comes to impacting games when starting, Lukaku is by far our best player.

These were the calculations before the West Brom game, for goals + assists

Martial - 0.58 per start
Lingard - 0.50 per start
Lukaku - 0.73 per start
Sanchez - 0.58 per start

 

[Pogue Mahone]

When it comes to impacting games when starting, Lukaku is by far our best player.

These were the calculations before the West Brom game, for goals + assists

Martial - 0.58 per start
Lingard - 0.50 per start
Lukaku - 0.73 per start
Sanchez - 0.58 per start

That’s decent from Lukaku but even he is probably a good bit below the best players in the league. If you combine goals and assists you’d expect a top attacking player to get close to 1.0, surely? The rest of them are miles off the pace.

 

[Jibbs]

Martial is a fantastic talent, but not suited to how Mourinho wants his team to set up. Martial's fate was sealed the day utd signed Ibrahimovic, not lukaku or Sanchez. It is clear that Mourinho wants a strong tall striker who gets crosses from the wings. It worked for Mourinho at Chelsea in 2014/15 because Costa had amazing ability to hold the ball and link up play with Hazad. Lukaku does not have that, For Lukaku to thrive you need good crosser of the ball like Di Maria. Whereas, Martial is like Hazard, he'd thrive with an striker like peak Costa or Lewandowski or Firmino. Just imagine a front three of Martial, Firmino and Salah or Matrial on the left with Lewandowski up front.
I think we signed Mourinho for immediate success, but somehow we have messed up in our transfers, as a result utd as a team is a hodgepodge of confused players.
Recall the period 03-06, Utd didn't win anything substantial, but Fergie stuck with young and talented Rooney and Ronaldo and built the team around them. I genuinely believe Martial and Marcus could have been our Rooney and Rolando. Any forward thinking manager would have gone to sign somebody like Sane or Mane to complete the trio. Yeah, we may not have won the UEFA Cup last year but for years to come we'd have a fearsome trio up front.
Going forward, I think if Utd has to thrive under Mourinho, we need to bite the bullet and sell Martial and funny as it may sound, try our best getting in Bale, and pray he doesn't get injured for at least a season or two and do an RVP for us.