Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[esmufc07]

Wow. Too good to be true, surely?

Probably, it is Theresa May after all.

 

[RORY65]

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After that Netflix documentary I don't believe a word she says. It does inspire some hope though following the briefings yesterday that May was warming to the idea of No Deal.

 

[Pexbo]

Wow. Too good to be true, surely?

With a free vote, every single option will be:

Ayes: ~150
Noes: ~500

0/7 motions passed.

 

[pacifictheme]

After that Netflix documentary I don't believe a word she says. It does inspire some hope though following the briefings yesterday that May was warming to the idea of No Deal.

Warming to no deal. Ugh. Brainless.

 

[711]

With a free vote, every single option will be:

Ayes: ~150
Noes: ~500

0/7 motions passed.

It would only work if it were a transferable vote, narrow it down to two and then there has to be a winner. Same goes for another referendum.

 

[Honest John]

With a free vote, every single option will be:

Ayes: ~150
Noes: ~500

0/7 motions passed.

Take the one that sustains the heaviest defeat off the table, then go again. Rinse and repeat.

Until there are two left, then put it to the people

 

[Brwned]

God help us if that’s the bar we’re setting for worthwhile posting on redcafe. You’d have to delete most of the threads in the football forum. You should start with the Messi vs Ronaldo one.

I think it's worth distinguishing between the same point made by multiple people, and the same point being made by the same person, relentlessly. I'm not sure who found Cal?'s arguments for Ronaldo day after day to be valuable. I'm not sure Cal? even would reflect back on it in that way. He wasn't the cause of the monstrosity though. What made the Ronaldo vs. Messi threads endlessly long were different people echoing Cal?'s views in small bursts. That's an inevitability, whereas an individual making the same point over and over and over again, for a period of years, is a pretty unusual thing.

Personally I don't think it aids the discussion and I can't figure out why someone would do it. Even if you have no-one else to say it to, this is your only outlet, you need to make the same point? I'm not sure that's in anyone's interests. I just don't understand it, and thought Paul might be able to shed some light on what value he gets from it, or thinks others get from it. If the answer to both is zero, then why is it problematic to just not say it?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It would only work if it were a transferable vote, narrow it down to two and then there has to be a winner. Same goes for another referendum.

Take the one that sustains the heaviest defeat off the table, then go again. Rinse and repeat.

Until there are two left, then put it to the people

Either approach works for me. Does anyone know how this indicative vote malarkey is supposed to work?

 

[Devil_forever]

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A lot of those options if parliament votes for them is how you guarantee the establishment of populism and the far right.

 

[Devil_forever]

Either approach works for me. Does anyone know how this indicative vote malarkey is supposed to work?

They indicate the will of the house but aren’t actually legally binding. Though government is meant to honor them, that’s my understanding of it anyway.

 

[Klopper76]

Who would’ve guessed that the BBC would go for this angle.

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[Devil_forever]

Who would’ve guessed that the BBC would go for this angle.

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You’re not seriously suggesting that the BBC are supporting leave are you?

 

[Penna]

Tried to get a doctors appointment today. Can't get one for the next two weeks. Two of the GPs in the local practice were Romanian and both have gone... So Brexit fecking with my health now. And, yep, I live in a Tory area, which is full of older people (partially why GPs are always busy) and was majority leave.

As I've said before, many NHS dentists are from other European countries. People better get used to paying £100 for a check-up.

 

[711]

As I've said before, many NHS dentists are from other European countries. People better get used to paying £100 for a check-up.

It doesn't detract from your point, but just for info an awful lot of dentists make you take out insurance now, £15-20 a month.

 

[Klopper76]

You’re not seriously suggesting that the BBC are supporting leave are you?

I know it's crazy but you never know.

 

[Tarrou]

You’re not seriously suggesting that the BBC are supporting leave are you?

Why not? Their political editor is right wing, isn't she?

But they have 20k employees, I'm sure some support leave.

 

[Klopper76]

As I've said before, many NHS dentists are from other European countries. People better get used to paying £100 for a check-up.

I used to use a private one and pay 13 pounds a month for two free check ups a year and some other perks.

NHS dentist's are free I guess?

 

[GloryHunter07]

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7 different votes? Or just one where there is no consensus?

 

[Penna]

I used to use a private one and pay 13 pounds a month for two free check ups a year and some other perks.

NHS dentist's are free I guess?

No, there are 3 bands of charges - but treatment is assigned to one band and won't go above the cost of that band. You can have a whole course of very complex treatment done and you won't pay more than about £250. Some people don't have to pay anything, such as kids, folk on benefits, pregnant women.

NHS dentistry is much cheaper than private, but the range of treatment isn't available - much of the cosmetic stuff isn't done on the NHS.

 

[Adebesi]

I think it's worth distinguishing between the same point made by multiple people, and the same point being made by the same person, relentlessly. I'm not sure who found Cal?'s arguments for Ronaldo day after day to be valuable. I'm not sure Cal? even would reflect back on it in that way. He wasn't the cause of the monstrosity though. What made the Ronaldo vs. Messi threads endlessly long were different people echoing Cal?'s views in small bursts. That's an inevitability, whereas an individual making the same point over and over and over again, for a period of years, is a pretty unusual thing.

Personally I don't think it aids the discussion and I can't figure out why someone would do it. Even if you have no-one else to say it to, this is your only outlet, you need to make the same point? I'm not sure that's in anyone's interests. I just don't understand it, and thought Paul might be able to shed some light on what value he gets from it, or thinks others get from it. If the answer to both is zero, then why is it problematic to just not say it?

Do people say things like this in AA meetings?

"Jesus Christ mate, we know you have been sober for 6 months, you told us that 2 weeks ago. Unless youve fallen off the wagon and beaten your wife, or something else interesting has happened to you, sit the fck down and let someone else speak."

I think this thread should be seen as a safe space for Remainers to let off steam. It may be a bit repetitive at times but given the amount of action we get in here every day I dont think most people really mind. In fact, maybe having something predictable and constant, like Paul's posts, is exactly what we need in these turbulent and unpredictable times.

 

[sun_tzu]

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With a free vote, every single option will be:

Ayes: ~150
Noes: ~500

0/7 motions passed.

I think so... even whipped votes I think non get a majority...

The Pm then probably goes for an election i suspect saying parliment cant agree on options... we couldnt agree what to put on a ballot - we need a strong government - election

 

[Adebesi]

Odds of a decisive result to a GE held now?

Slim, Id say.

 

[711]

I think so... even whipped votes I think non get a majority...

The Pm then probably goes for an election i suspect saying parliment cant agree on options... we couldnt agree what to put on a ballot - we need a strong government - election

Probably. But then they have to agree what to put in their manifestos. And agree a new leader for the Tories.

 

[sun_tzu]

Probably. But then they have to agree what to put in their manifestos. And agree a new leader for the Tories.

my gut feel is she calls for an election straight after her vote goes down... it does not give the time for the conservatives to get a new leader in place - does not really give time for TIG or Brexit party to effectively get people and campaign... turns it into pretty much a defacto referendum leave (conservatives) vs remain (SNP, libs, Greens, Labour (probably?))... and if the remain vote is split they can win that fight - even with May in charge (shes as much a liability as corbyn is for labour)... no idea how labour would hold up through the manifesto process but I suspect it would be at least as difficult for them as it is for the conservatives if not more so

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Who would’ve guessed that the BBC would go for this angle.

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The “angle” they go for is a resounding ‘no’ to the question in the article title.

You (and a load of other people on Twitter) seem to be making the classic mistake of forming an opinion on a shared article after reading the title, then not bothering to read the main text.

 

[Adebesi]

The problem with a GE is it will be fought on a single issue and both the parties are split on that issue. So it is not at all clear who people are supposed to vote for to express their opinion on this issue that the GE has been called to settle.

A GE is unlikely to resolve the problem. Even if it delivers a clear majority one way or the other it will be far from clear that the majority equates to a mandate for a particular course of action.

 

[CassiusClaymore]

A general election will solve nothing and probably just make things worse.

 

[Buster15]

Yeah, I would have gone for Deal Passed, but the extension possibilities might have scuppered that. I'd go for a Long Extension but could be either for a GE or a Referendum.

Bad news for Corbyn, how long can he continue to disguise his position before even his own supporters cotton on?

They have to have a leader they can manipulate to disguise the fact that they are nothing to do with Labour and he is just a front.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Exactly. A GE gets us nowhere re Brexit.

 

[Adebesi]

And by the way, I predict Corbyn will do everything in his power to avoid even discussing Brexit in any campaign. He'll talk about "the things that the British public really care about, schools and the NHS," and avoid committing himself to anything.

 

[Buster15]

Don't think Russia wants the UK still in the EU..

Exactly. They absolutely want to divide Europe and Brexit is working brilliantly for them.

 

[Brwned]

Do people say things like this in AA meetings?

"Jesus Christ mate, we know you have been sober for 6 months, you told us that 2 weeks ago. Unless youve fallen off the wagon and beaten your wife, or something else interesting has happened to you, sit the fck down and let someone else speak."

I think this thread should be seen as a safe space for Remainers to let off steam. It may be a bit repetitive at times but given the amount of action we get in here every day I dont think most people really mind. In fact, maybe having something predictable and constant, like Paul's posts, is exactly what we need in these turbulent and unpredictable times.

I think the fact that the first metaphor that springs to mind is one of addiction raises more questions than it answers, personally. It probably is apt too. In any case we can all agree there's more important things to be discussing on this particular topic so I'll drop it!

 

[saivet]

I used to use a private one and pay 13 pounds a month for two free check ups a year and some other perks.

NHS dentist's are free I guess?

Costs £22 for a check up

 

[Adebesi]

I think the fact that the first metaphor that springs to mind is one of addiction raises more questions than it answers, personally. It probably is apt too. In any case we can all agree there's more important things to be discussing on this particular topic so I'll drop it!

It felt like the appropriate - no, the only appropriate analogy to use.

 

[Dave89]

The “angle” they go for is a resounding ‘no’ to the question in the article title.

You (and a load of other people on Twitter) seem to be making the classic mistake of forming an opinion on a shared article after reading the title, then not bothering to read the main text.

Which is exactly their desired affect. Spread the lie via the headline (which will have a lot more exposure than the article) then point to the article as a defence.

 

[esmufc07]

A lot of those options if parliament votes for them is how you guarantee the establishment of populism and the far right.

my gut feel is she calls for an election straight after her vote goes down... it does not give the time for the conservatives to get a new leader in place - does not really give time for TIG or Brexit party to effectively get people and campaign... turns it into pretty much a defacto referendum leave (conservatives) vs remain (SNP, libs, Greens, Labour (probably?))... and if the remain vote is split they can win that fight - even with May in charge (shes as much a liability as corbyn is for labour)... no idea how labour would hold up through the manifesto process but I suspect it would be at least as difficult for them as it is for the conservatives if not more so

The house has to vote for a General Election doesn't it? She can call it but it has to be passed by the HoC?

 

[Klopper76]

The “angle” they go for is a resounding ‘no’ to the question in the article title.

You (and a load of other people on Twitter) seem to be making the classic mistake of forming an opinion on a shared article after reading the title, then not bothering to read the main text.

That's what they're going for though with a headline like that. Even asking the question plants the idea in people's heads.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Which is exactly their desired affect. Spread the lie via the headline (which will have a lot more exposure than the article) then point to the article as a defence.

Maybe. Personally I find it depressing how often people seem to analyse the media by just reading headlines.

 

[caid]

Who would’ve guessed that the BBC would go for this angle.

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Thats a ridiculous headline.

...

I understand your point pogue but its quite a misleading 'introduction' to the story. Even the byline suggest theres something to it

 

[Dave89]

Maybe. Personally I find it depressing how often people seem to analyse the media by just reading headlines.

I agree, but if you know they do, and I know they do, do you not think the BBC know?