The alternative is a possible return to the troubles. Okay your not Irish so you don't give a shit but for people who do, a return to violence in Ireland(Not to forget there will be a increased chance of bombing happening in England)is a lot worse that EU diplomats have to engage with British politicians.I don't think it's a good idea to keep dragging this problem any longer.
Again Ireland is a member stateIt's unfair on the entire continent.
This is just stupid.There again I respect Irelands decision to leave the EU if it feels that the GFA is more important then EU membership
Let me think about that.... probably not!If they have any sense, they will coalesce around a customs union (possibly with a confirmatory referendum).
Do they actually have any sense, though?
Personally I blame the lying scum that duped people into believing a fairy tale Brexit.On another point of note, if we vote to Remain, how can we be sure that we will have the exact same relationship as before and the EU won't try to fleece us in the coming years?
It would be absolutely ridiculous if they asked more money/territory from us and we 'pretended to leave' yet again.
We are really in an awful political situation thanks to the no-hopers in Parliament.
Because the EU have already stated that a revocation of Article 50 will allow for a unilateral return to the UK’s relationship with the EU pre-Article 50 invocation.On another point of note, if we vote to Remain, how can we be sure that we will have the exact same relationship as before and the EU won't try to fleece us in the coming years?
It would be absolutely ridiculous if they asked more money/territory from us and we 'pretended to leave' yet again.
We are really in an awful political situation thanks to the no-hopers in Parliament.
Because that was legally confirmed over a year ago, revoking A50 will put us back on the same terms.On another point of note, if we vote to Remain, how can we be sure that we will have the exact same relationship as before and the EU won't try to fleece us in the coming years?
It would be absolutely ridiculous if they asked more money/territory from us and we 'pretended to leave' yet again.
We are really in an awful political situation thanks to the no-hopers in Parliament.
It's been determined that revoking Article 50 comes with no strings attached - that the UK is guaranteed by law to maintain the exact legal, economic and political relationship it had before. Since any future changes would have to be agreed to and ratified by the UK it's fair to presume that fleecing would be off the table.On another point of note, if we vote to Remain, how can we be sure that we will have the exact same relationship as before and the EU won't try to fleece us in the coming years?
It would be absolutely ridiculous if they asked more money/territory from us and we 'pretended to leave' yet again.
We are really in an awful political situation thanks to the no-hopers in Parliament.
Is that a forever thing, or is it just for a few months? Do these legal assurances have a long timeframe to them?Because that was legally confirmed over a year ago, revoking A50 will put us back on the same terms.
‘Hold on... we’re a fecking island!’Raab's latest statement is claiming now is the time for realism and pragmatism so we should go back to the EU and ask them to change the backstop.
Man is a grade A idiot
It’s for as long as we remain in the EU and have a right to our veto.Is that a forever thing, or is it just for a few months? Do these legal assurances have a long timeframe to them?
Can we be sure the EU won't try anything funny in the next set of negotiations for continuing membership?
Because we sure as hell can't play the 'leave' card again in a few years. That would be internationally embarrassing, as if the whole thing wasn't already bad enough
Well apart from the fact there's a legal framework that covers these things, I have to ask; Where does the suspicion come from? When did the EU feck us over or treat us like enemies that makes you think they'll do it now? Where does this deep rooted suspsicion come from?Is that a forever thing, or is it just for a few months? Do these legal assurances have a long timeframe to them?
Can we be sure the EU won't try anything funny in the next set of negotiations for continuing membership?
Because we sure as hell can't play the 'leave' card again in a few years. That would be internationally embarrassing, as if the whole thing wasn't already bad enough
20-30 years of the British press making things up about the EU.Well apart from the fact there's a legal framework that covers these things, I have to ask; Where does the suspicion come from? When did the EU feck us over or treat us like enemies that makes you think they'll do it now? Where does this deep rooted suspsicion come from?
It is. Could not have put it better myself. Keep hoping eh.Dont give up, maybe by Monday some consensus will form. Listening to the Brexitcast it sounds like the Indicative votes were always expected to be a process not a one shot kill (so to speak).
Its the hope that hurts the most!
Even before the list of amendments were listed I couldn't see parliament agreeing on anything.Well I was obviously wrong to have hoped that the indicative vote process might get to a solution. To say that I am angry as well as disappointed is an understatement.
To be fair you have always said that there is no solution save for either revocation of A50 or leaving with no deal which isn't a solution.
I have also been against a second referendum and still am.
Our only real option is for MP'S to vote for the WA and then attempt to mitigate the Backstop issue during the future relationship negotiations.
If this carries on I think I will become a monk.
The notion that Ireland would have to choose between being in the EU and the GFA is nonsense of such a high order that even most Brexiters don't try to put it forward as an argument. There is zero chance that happens, as well as zero reason why it should.I don't think it's a good idea to keep dragging this problem forever. It's unfair on an entire continent that deserves to move on rather then keep being linked to the hip with an unreliable partner who secretly wants the EU to collapse
I also believe that once reality start biting the spirit of Dunkirk will kick in and the UK will be rowing back to safety (in the EU) Which means a no deal Brexit will be short lived
There again I respect Irelands decision to leave the EU if it feels that the GFA is more important then EU membership
If the legal framework has a long timeframe, then revocation might not be so bad.Well apart from the fact there's a legal framework that covers these things, I have to ask; Where does the suspicion come from? When did the EU feck us over or treat us like enemies that makes you think they'll do it now? Where does this deep rooted suspsicion come from?
Hungary will soon put in a claim for East Anglia, on the basis that in Hungarian, England is called 'Anglia'.Edit: what territory have we given up for the EU?
Well Gibraltar for one. It's still British for now but you can very clearly see that the Spain are really gritting their teeth there.Edit: what territory have we given up for the EU?
The EU has nothing to back down from. The UK isn't being pushed out: it wants out. The EU has made it clear that the UK can revoke A50 at any time and stay. There would be no negotiations, nothing.If the legal framework has a long timeframe, then revocation might not be so bad.
Let's face it, politics is all about concessions. The EU wants more from us, we want more back from them. It's normal. Our issue is that we do not fully align with the EU rules as France, Germany do. We have a 'special agreement' with them and AFAIK it was getting difficult to maintain the same terms during negotiations, hence it lead to Cameron playing the referendum card in 2016
The EU might back down for now, but we need legal assurances they won't push us for more long into the future because we really can't do this again. This fiasco is just embarrassing.
No. The only country that is not not in the EEA and is in a Custom's Union with the EU is Turkey. Here is the border between Turkey and the EU (Bulgaria)Stupid question but would Ken Clarke's CU have solved the border issue in Ireland?
So the UK hasn't had to give up any territoty to the EU then.Well Gibraltar for one. It's still British for now but you can very clearly see that the Spain are really gritting their teeth there.
It's a Saxon word anyway, isn't it?Hungary will soon put in a claim for East Anglia, on the basis that in Hungarian, England is called 'Anglia'.
As far as I'm aware we haven't given Gibraltar to Spain and were we to remain in the EU, the EU would keep itself out of that dispute as it would be a neutral party. Were the UK to leave the EU, the EU would of course take the EU member's side, as you would expect if it were Spain the one threatening to leave the EU instead.Well Gibraltar for one. It's still British for now but you can very clearly see that the Spain are really gritting their teeth there.
Who the EU is supposed to be in your scenario? Because for the rest of us, if you are a member states of the EU, you are the EU.Is that a forever thing, or is it just for a few months? Do these legal assurances have a long timeframe to them?
Can we be sure the EU won't try anything funny in the next set of negotiations for continuing membership?
Because we sure as hell can't play the 'leave' card again in a few years. That would be internationally embarrassing, as if the whole thing wasn't already bad enough
As far as I know, the Anglia form is Latin. The original Saxon is Angeln.It's a Saxon word anyway, isn't it?
You seem to be making the same mistake a lot of folk do - that the EU is some monolithic structure with which we negotiate but to which we do not belong. It's simply not the case - rather the EU is the result of negotiations between equal (and unequal) partners and the mechanism through which further negotiations between these partners take place. We are a powerful member of the EU.If the legal framework has a long timeframe, then revocation might not be so bad.
Let's face it, politics is all about concessions. The EU wants more from us, we want more back from them. It's normal. Our issue is that we do not fully align with the EU rules as France, Germany do. We have a 'special agreement' with them and AFAIK it was getting difficult to maintain the same terms during negotiations, hence it lead to Cameron playing the referendum card in 2016
The EU might back down for now, but we need legal assurances they won't push us for more long into the future because we really can't do this again. This fiasco is just embarrassing.
Yep, poor old Britain being asked for territory...that'd be a fucking travesty, wouldn't it.On another point of note, if we vote to Remain, how can we be sure that we will have the exact same relationship as before and the EU won't try to fleece us in the coming years?
It would be absolutely ridiculous if they asked more money/territory from us and we 'pretended to leave' yet again.
We are really in an awful political situation thanks to the no-hopers in Parliament.
OK, no prophecy then none. But as long as they keep that up and respect that, I'm good. If I can be assured it wouldn't get any worse, I have no complaints.It's a Saxon word anyway, isn't it?
As far as I'm aware we haven't given Gibraltar to Spain and were we to remain in the EU, the EU would keep itself out of that dispute as it would be a neutral party. Were the UK to leave the EU, the EU would of course take the EU member's side, as you would expect if it were Spain the one threatening to leave the EU instead.
Instead of prophecy, shall we talk about facts? What British territories does the EU expect the UK give up?
In theory yes, but I always feel this 'special agreement' keeps things a bit frosty during negotiations.Who the EU is supposed to be in your scenario? Because for the rest of us, if you are a member states of the EU, you are the EU.
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