Need a tissue to catch your bile?What a load of utter shite. Jesus
Reading things like this make a tiny bit of me hope for the biggest throbbing red white and blue brexit imaginable. Astonishing arrogance and narcissism
Need a tissue to catch your bile?What a load of utter shite. Jesus
Reading things like this make a tiny bit of me hope for the biggest throbbing red white and blue brexit imaginable. Astonishing arrogance and narcissism
Democracy and referendums are 2 very different things. One of a mere tool of the other. By conflating the two, you simply display your wilful ignorance.The issue with scuppering brexit is it is scuppering democracy I’m afraid, and if the shoe were on the other foot and remain won, would you be tolerating the scuppering of your democratic victory? I probably know the answer to that.
And how are you so certain that leave wouldn’t win again? The will of the people was already displayed in 2016.
And on the 2nd referendum, does anyone seriously think that would solve anything? What if remain won? Would that automatically mean it is over? What if leave win again? Would remain accept it? Again, I know the answer to both of those already.
And as for opinions changing, I doubt many, if any, have changed opinions, only got more entrenched in them.
It is now time for leave and remain to work this out. It is fine for an MP to stick to their morals and convictions but what if those morals are at odds with the constituents that voted for them?
It’s called democracy Sammsky and it’s a beautiful thing but you are not always on the winning side and I’ve always been able to accept that. If this changes and our elected officials can ignore the democratic choices they wish to, our country will suffer massively in the future.
Totally agree. It is reckless. The actions of a group of sociopaths.The behaviour in Parliament is often boorish and emotive and string language has always been used. It can often be ridiculous.
However, what is happening currently, with a PM and executive deliberately using a strategy of divisive rhetoric portraying any who is not with them as treacherous, mining the seam of Second World War language, is unprecedented. He is actively choosing to portray the infrastructure of legislature of this country as being against the people. All this whilst they have prorogued Parliament unlawfully to achieve their aim at all costs and been forced back to the house by the courts.
This is new and incredibly dangerous. It is not normal and a level above the usual Parliamentary nonsense.
Exactly. Another referendum would solve nothing, only divide even more.Everyone was very confident of a remain victory 3 years ago. There are far too many unknowns to predict anything with certainty.
3 years of brexiters being branded thick racists and the polls haven’t moved much at all. And who exactly is going to front the remain campaign?
No deal Brexit was not voted for. It was actively dismissed by the leave campaign as near impossible. German cars etc etc.I agree with most of your post matey, I really do but there is the other side of the argument that there are people, and they’re not all racist murderers, that feel Boris is fighting FOR them. Those people that voted for Brexit are seeing a genuine democratic victory being blocked by remain parties / MP’s. That behaviour is also considered divisive.
So as I said earlier, there are two narratives being ardently fought out with increasingly volatile language and behaviour. There has got to be some eventual compromise over this issue somewhere.
I just have to post thisI agree with most of your post matey, I really do but there is the other side of the argument that there are people, and they’re not all racist murderers, that feel Boris is fighting FOR them.
That horse has already bolted. The country is bitterly divided, further fuelled by Johnson/Cummings using the Trump playbook. A second referendum would at least have legitimacy in that it would be based on defined alternatives (EU membership vs some variant of May’s deal) rather than EU membership vs [insert your own wish-list here]. And given I have yet to hear a single, plausible benefit of Brexit after three and half years (now even Leave don’t bother pretending there are advantages - it’s just a simple majoritarian argument that they won by a tiny margin over 3 years ago), you can’t seriously expect half (and now over half) the country to rollover and acquiesce in the economic, diplomatic and moral downsizing of their country.Exactly. Another referendum would solve nothing, only divide even more.
Yes, there are two sides and several shades inbetween. However, the narrative that Parliament (and the hard Brexiteers voted down the deal too, including the current PM) and the judiciary are against the people is being actively peddled and developed. They are prepared to burn the structures of this country's constitution and institutions. That is a deliberate and cynical strategy to inflame to win an election at all costs. No nuance and they know what they're doing. There is no equivalent on the other side. This, to be clear, is mot to suggest that there are not behaviours away from the Govt benches I take issue with but there is not nothing to compare with this government's combative strategy.I agree with most of your post matey, I really do but there is the other side of the argument that there are people, and they’re not all racist murderers, that feel Boris is fighting FOR them. Those people that voted for Brexit are seeing a genuine democratic victory being blocked by remain parties / MP’s. That behaviour is also considered divisive.
So as I said earlier, there are two narratives being ardently fought out with increasingly volatile language and behaviour. There has got to be some eventual compromise over this issue somewhere.
It’s an amazing twist of logic to suggest that asking the public to confirm their vote is somehow divisive and undemocratic. Actually it’s not, it’s just stupid bollocks.Exactly. Another referendum would solve nothing, only divide even more.
And if they do want it?It’s an amazing twist of logic to suggest that asking the public to confirm their vote is somehow divisive and undemocratic. Actually it’s not, it’s just stupid bollocks.
Either Brexit is the will of the people or it isn’t. If you ask the people again and they don’t want it, then it isn’t the will of the people.
It'd divide less than trying to strong arm Parliament and the judiciary whilst calling everyone not on your side a treacherous capitulator.Exactly. Another referendum would solve nothing, only divide even more.
Well a 2nd referendum can be used to confirm what sort of Brexit the people want.And if they do want it?
Then they get it. Though hopefully it will be made clear at that point what Brexit actually means, as opposed to yet more promises of unicorns being used to lure voters into ultimately backing a hard exit. Even still, they're certainly far more informed of the realities of Brexit now than they were previously.And if they do want it?
You think that taking the only meaningful vote in 40 years and tossing it in the bin will result in LESS division than just executing the verdict as promised? What are you man smoking?It'd divide less than trying to strong arm Parliament and the judiciary whilst calling everyone not on your side a treacherous capitulator.
Then on their own head be it, but let them decide.And if they do want it?
So it could be a referendum on a variety of exits?Well a 2nd referendum can be used to confirm what sort of Brexit the people want.
But they promise to go through with it this time? Really really pinky promise?Then on their own head be it, but let them decide.
Do not believe a single word they say...Not read up so don't know if this has been covered but the Brexit party broadcast has just been aired in my region
Got a feeling that is going to win quite a few votes. Annoying that Farage has made 'clean break Brexit' a thing.
Yes.But they promise to go through with it this time? Really really pinky promise?
There are definitely a few yeah but not many. Most are just trying to employ common sense and ensure we don’t crash out with no deal.I think there are dude yeah. Some, the Lib Dem’s now are open about this although I think remain are almost as split on the issue as the leave camp.
This needs some maturity now from both sides, it is clearly at boiling point and needs to be resolved but both sides seem more hell bent on digging their heels in than ever.
Yes I assume the purpose of any 2nd referendum would be to break the current deadlock and once and for all get a definitive answer on how and when we should leave the EU.So it could be a referendum on a variety of exits?
Common mkt 2.0
Mays deal
Boris’ made up deal
No deal
Etc
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I would accept that. I would like parliament to somehow narrow it down as I’m concerned all the votes will be split and no deal would walk it. A couple of the soft brexit proposals weren’t too many votes away last time outYes I assume the purpose of any 2nd referendum would be to break the current deadlock and once and for all get a definitive answer on how and when we should leave the EU.
Nah I’m fine with not defending populist wankers who are contributing to inciting violence thanks.I disapprove of what Boris said, but we should all defend to the death his right to say it.
Got a link? Can’t find it anywhere.Nina Warhurst interview with Boris Johnson , everyone should watch.
He's utterly fecking odious.
Then God help us all.Nah I’m fine with not defending populist wankers who are contributing to inciting violence thanks.
I think it depends on the question you ask. If all options are on the table and it's asked in a non-cynically fashion I think most would be comfortable.It’s an amazing twist of logic to suggest that asking the public to confirm their vote is somehow divisive and undemocratic. Actually it’s not, it’s just stupid bollocks.
Either Brexit is the will of the people or it isn’t. If you ask the people again and they don’t want it, then it isn’t the will of the people.
Where would an interested person see it?The reporter on North West tonight absolutely ripped Johnson go pieces in a way I haven't seen anyone else to.
At one point he was speechless as she brought up countless examples of him being caught lying.
Was brilliant to watch
Do you think the Westboro Baptist Church should be protected by free speech? Genuinely curious, because free speech has never been an absolute right anywhere, it’s purely about where you draw the line. Personally I’m fine with drawing that line comfortably ahead of a place where you can put other people’s livea at risk for political gain.Then God help us all.
Why 10? Leave without a deal, leave with whatever deal has been negotiated or remain seems to cover all options that are actually possible at this point. Obviously with the leave options as a second question so you don’t split the leave vote.I think it depends on the question you ask. If all options are on the table and it's asked in a non-cynically fashion I think most would be comfortable.
The problem with that is it would need around 10 options on a preference vote system that simply wouldn't happen.
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Eurgh. Cummings just looks like a smarmy cnut.
Someone will take a swing at him one day
And these comments are all much better than Boris’s languageNah I’m fine with not defending populist wankers who are contributing to inciting violence thanks.
So what's your line then? A lot of us find our line crossed by what we see as him recklessly whipping up the far right 'traitor' narrative that has already killed one MP.I disapprove of what Boris said, but we should all defend to the death his right to say it.
This is the dumb thing about Brexit. There being multiple mutually exclusive ways of doing it, that can't be decided upon between them, is seen as a factor in its favour. (Not aimed at you, just at this general point that's raised about any referendum.)Then God help us all.
Or some higher power that probably doesn't exist.
I think it depends on the question you ask. If all options are on the table and it's asked in a non-cynically fashion I think most would be comfortable.
The problem with that is it would need around 10 options on a preference vote system that simply wouldn't happen.
I'm not the Prime Minister.And these comments are all much better than Boris’s language
There are a number of reasons why I now support a second referendum.Yes I assume the purpose of any 2nd referendum would be to break the current deadlock and once and for all get a definitive answer on how and when we should leave the EU.
So, Brexit, soft or hard vs Remain ... hasn’t that been done somewhere before?Why 10? Leave without a deal, leave with whatever deal has been negotiated or remain seems to cover all options that are actually possible at this point. Obviously with the leave options as a second question so you don’t split the leave vote.
This is not the House of Commons and the posters on here are not MP’s. Boris can say what he wants in private, but when he’s in the House of Commons, or in any other public situation, he should act responsibly.And these comments are all much better than Boris’s language
And Kentonio, there are populist wankers on both sides of the Brexit debate, it’s just that both sides are so blinkered they don’t see it.
Assuming the various possibilities are actually realistic and would be acceptable to the EU - only one of which thus far being the actual Withdrawal Agreement currently on the table.Yes I assume the purpose of any 2nd referendum would be to break the current deadlock and once and for all get a definitive answer on how and when we should leave the EU.
The atmosphere is similar!This is not the House of Commons