This obsession some of you lot have with hanging on to a player that can't stay fit and, even when he can, is really good in bursts is astounding to me. We've been saying 'his injury luck could always improve next year' for years now. At what point do you just have to accept that he's an incredibly injury prone player that's never likely to play a consistent role for us?
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
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- Goals
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- Assists
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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He did well, lack of fitness told in the end.
It's actually quite amazing how much better he is than Wout even not being fully fit.
Really need him to stay fit, even if he does I'd still be inclined to shift him on in the summer.
It's actually quite amazing how much better he is than Wout even not being fully fit.
Really need him to stay fit, even if he does I'd still be inclined to shift him on in the summer.
So tell me what are the perks of getting rid of him because if you're so adamant we ship him off there has to be some beneficial factors that ought to follow upon taking such an action. I can think of benefits of having him around while I cannot think of any by getting rid of him, especially with us already lacking in attacking depth and being unlikely to bring much more reinforcement in this summer given our current financial restrictions.
Martial being around doesn't impede anyone from being brought nor is it like we have American sport systems where they have cap limit and he'd be getting in the way of us paying someone new we could bring. But on the other hand we could see his injury situation improve, this isn't some inconceivable notion. We've seen injury prone players improve their situation with injuries before. The likes of Robben, RVP, Ribbery are just a few of those who had catastrophic fitness issues which improved overtime.
We save a million a month from his wages for starters. Since it's been widely reported we need to sell to buy this summer, even a 10-15 million fee would be useful to add to a transfer kitty for purchasing an actual CF who can stay fit and score goals. Looking at our forwards for next season we have Rashford, Antony, Sancho, Garnacho, Amad/Pellistri and a new CF. 6 people for 3 positions should be enough given how Rashford can play as #9 if needed.
The likes of RVP and Robben never missed so much football though as Martial has. Also, for all his talents he isn't a patch on the players you mention. He's been here almost 8 years and has like 80 goals, not exactly setting the world alight.
While I agree our general play improves tremendously when he plays well, those occasions aren't regular enough to be able to build a pattern of play around it. How long do you want the club to keep holding on to these players hoping they will make the step up? Especially when they just can't stay fit.
Save millions for what?
This isn't American sports where there is a salary cap. You're also naively thinking it's easy to bring in quality options, especially on relatively small money. And what is the point of bringing in a worse player to replace Martial. All these talks of availability means nothing if people are gonna start moaning about the player's poor quality, exibit A being Wout. There is a better chance and likelihood of Martial to remain fit next season than bringing a player of his quality on limited funds.
For buying new players. What are you on about talking about salary caps? You do realize we aren't in a great position FFP wise and even being bought by Qatar will not mean we can spend exorbitantly this summer. I am not talking about bringing a back up CF. We need to buy a proper CF ( a Kane or Oshimen), a proper CM and probably a GK this summer. Any money generated by selling players will go towards that so bit part players on high wages like Martial should be the first to go.Save millions for what?
This isn't American sports where there is a salary cap. You're also naively thinking it's easy to bring in quality options, especially on relatively small money. And what is the point of bringing in a worse player to replace Martial. All these talks of availability means nothing if people are gonna start moaning about the player's poor quality, exibit A being Wout. There is a better chance and likelihood of Martial to remain fit next season than bringing a player of his quality on limited funds.
I like that he doesn't need 10 games to get back his touch. Makes him effective striker even if he's still 70% fit.
True. Now it's just a matter of him gelling with his teammates once again. I felt like after the first 30 minutes the ball stopped going to him in part due to him and his teammates lacking a bit of familiarity.
There is a mental thread that suggests selling Bruno and Rashford. Our recruitment record says we should hang on to any decent players we have.
We did bring in quality last summer in the likes of Martinez, Casemiro and even Anotony (even though he was overpriced), and we have to trust that the new regime will continue to get more right with the help of Ten Hag
Personally, I don't see the point in selling Martial, but he should be replaced defacto anyway because he is clearly unreliable. I'd sign 2 CFs this summer personally and if Martial is fit its a bonus
Would we though? No other club will pay him anywhere close to his current wage due to his injuries, so unless he is happy to take a huge pay cut we would likely have to pay him off significantly just to leave.
We can't trust Martial to stay fit enough to be our 1st or 2nd choice striker. The question I have is whether Rashford has improved enough when playing at striker this season to be our 2nd choice, in which case it's a good idea to keep Martial as well to play that role when he's actually fit, which would allow Rashford to stay on the left where he's better. If Rashford isn't that 2nd choice option, then we have to sign two new strikers and it does become increasingly difficult to warrant Martial having a spot in the squad. But we'd still have the problem of actually selling him.
On the off chance that a club comes in and offers us a decent transfer fee and we wouldn't have to pay the balance of Martial's wages, then maybe. But if not then there's no real point. We'd be losing the benefits of Martial without really getting anything in return.
Of course, when it comes time to signing him to a new contract then it's a very different conversation.
Sounds like perfect scenario. Think that's exactly Ten Hag's way of thinking as he's aware of his talent, but in the same knows about too much physical stretch can end with another complication.
Was good to see him look like he was enjoying himself last night.
I think there is this naïve belief from some that if we sell players we'll somehow replace them with quality players. What's funny is that this belief is held despite witnessing our record with recruiting players. One would think the smartest thing to do is hold on to the few quality players we have and look to add more instead of getting rid of them.
It’s okay to just say you don’t know what you’re talking about. Rather that than continued ignorance. Maybe look into why so many of us in the “modern keeper brigade” think that way?
Everyone that defends de Gea does so anecdotally with points like “made a huge save to keep us in the game” but by every conceivable metric De Gea is only average at shot stopping while being genuinely worst in the league at both commanding his box on aerial balls, as well as passing out of the back. Being unable to kick a ball with any sort of accuracy means that we are constantly ceding possession when a team presses us and we are forced to pass back to him. Ceding possession so easily thus means we aren’t “controlling” the game like we could.
It gets especially annoying when routine saves from DeGea are made out to be more than what they actually are. Everytime he makes a good save, you'd have all these posts pretending other keepers wouldn't have been able to make them. The attempt at building this narrative that other keepers wouldn't be able to make good saves therefore we can't do without DeGea and should ignore his glaring flaws when it comes to on ball abilities is infuriating.
The idiotic part isn’t that some people want to move on. It’s that they want to sell him for literally pennies for basically 0 reason other than to get rid. Martial isn’t fetching any sort of “decent fee”. Us selling him might get us 20m tops. That isn’t worth it when the alternative is keeping him as a rotational striker that (for the games he’s fit) has the chance to beat any team in the world with his quality. You aren’t finding that sort of back up option anywhere else.
The first quality you look for in a back up is availability, something Martial has struggled with for the last 3 seasons, to put it mildly.
I’m a big fan, and certainly won’t raise an objection if he’s kept next year, but let’s not pretend that gambling with his fitness isn’t a risk, whether as a starting or rotational striker, over 60+ games season.
You just know if we were to sell him, he'd shine elsewhere and never get injured again.
Like last season at Sevilla?
He’s been a good performer for Ten Hag when fit. Reckon we’d have pretty much secured top 4 already had he been fit. Sadly can’t be relied upon though so maybe should be let go this summer.
Love that he's back in such good form for the run-in. Absolutely the missing piece of the Ten Hag attacking strategy. Antony and Sabitzer looked more dangerous, Sancho was more involved
But we can't be fooled into the same mistake season after season. It is ok to replace a player because of their fitness rather than because of their quality. More than that, it's necessary.
What he does is prove that our attacking unit is actually in great shape if we just put a quality modern #9 in there.
But we can't be fooled into the same mistake season after season. It is ok to replace a player because of their fitness rather than because of their quality. More than that, it's necessary.
What he does is prove that our attacking unit is actually in great shape if we just put a quality modern #9 in there.
It’s not gambling though if he’s essentially a third option. And again, it’s a better choice than just selling him for nothing just to be rid of his injury issues.
But he can still get injured, right, third option or not? So yes, given his injury record it absolutely is gambling.
That's too simple. It's also a question of how happy he is with his role. You don't want a sulker in the dressing room. Also, he's on really high wages - even by United standards.
It may be the right decision to keep him in certain circumstances - for example, if we have a newly acquired striker who's not so good that it's self-evident he starts whenever he can, and you also have a third option to turn to if he's out. And he's happy with that. But historically he hasn't had the mindset to really work as a backup type striker who plays only intermittently, he's said so himself.
Of course, exactly the same things that make him problematic for us also makes him problematic for pretty much every other club. Most of whom can't afford to pay that kind of wages for a player like that.
So you are proposing buying 2 new strikers and have a third on 250k a week, or Rashford is your 2nd choice?
If it’s the first, no club operate like that, not even City, if it’s the latter, we are already overplaying Rashford as it is, going into another season when he’s expected to play 2 games a week non stop is hardly sensible squad building.
If Martial is here next season, it means that he’s at worst 2nd choice, and with his injury record, if the new striker and him are out at the same time, we could potentially be looking at someone like Elanga playing again.
I’ve always liked him, but it was like seeing him play first time for us. So joyful.
Player that just lifts you from the seat with his explosive technique. And his calmness and decision making on the ball. Awesome player! Stay fit, Tony!
Player that just lifts you from the seat with his explosive technique. And his calmness and decision making on the ball. Awesome player! Stay fit, Tony!
I can't blame @Arka_BleedingRed . It's hard not to because, in my opinion, that trio would've had our attack sorted for years. At the time, people were talking about upgrading Martial with Sancho but I always thought Martial was as important as the other two as what he was doing as a false 9 was so important in terms of complimenting the other two as wide forwards.
I don't think there can be much doubt about that. We'd be much closer to the top two rather than the chasing pack, perhaps even still in the title hunt. We've basically played the entire season without any kind of decent striker, so in that sense it's amazing we've done as well as we have.
We are going to need him 100% fit and sharp and finish the entire game if we want to get the win we need at Sevilla. Do we wrap him up in cotton wool for the trip to Forest and then start him at Sevilla?
He made the other two click, without a doubt.
It’s not when the alternative is selling him for essentially nothing and then either not replacing him at all or bringing in close to a Weghorst level player that would be happy being a third option.
How do you not understand the risk/reward at play here? In this scenario we aren’t “relying on him” the same way we were this year as a #1 option
yeah considering i doubt we get much for him, if anything at all, the lesser gamble is him as a squad striker option. A top CF, martial, then rash as our 3 main CF options would be about as best as we could realistically hope for this next season. Midfield is where i want to see us be just completely ruthless.
You realize if Greenwood never gets arrested that we would have had 3 strikers this year with Martial being on 250k anyways right? In the scenario I’m describing we’d just be replenishing our numbers that we should already have. One first choice striker (Kane/Osimhen or whoever), one “prospect” that would be happy as an understudy, and Martial. Point being you simply aren’t going to find the quality he provides on the market anywhere for a reasonable price, and his injury issues that undoubtedly will come are less of an issue when there are two (or three counting Rashford) other viable selections to play up top.
I genuinely dont believe anyone is better with their back directly back fully towards goal, its like he has eyes on the back of his head, i love watching it.
People forget the value of it easily since he's been out. It takes a player or two out so well and changes our attacking dynamic.
He was brilliant for about 30 minutes then for whatever reason we just couldn’t get the ball to him and stopped playing. That pass for Sab was something else plus that no look back heel in to the path of Bruno.
Just stay fit because you can see we are so so much better with him as the 9.
Just stay fit because you can see we are so so much better with him as the 9.
It’s never going to happen though so let’s not go there
It still might happen. Nobody really knows yet.
Martial was here this year as the clear first choice since pre season though, it’s not as if we kept him on that wage intending on using him as a spare 3rd option. The season before as soon as it was evident that he wasn’t getting games ahead of Cavani, Ronaldo and Greenwood (which is a clusterfeck of a situation), he left on loan to Sevilla, and Greenwood was never officially part of the CF rotation, he was more of a wide forward in selection, so effectively Martial left when there were two players ahead of him in the pecking order.
And we don’t know what sort of budget we are playing around with in the summer. We need (urgently) a striker, a playmaking CM, another CB (assuming one of Maguire/Lindelof leaves) and (possibly) a new keeper, RB. That’s a lot of positions needing investment in that getting in a young prospect good enough to be a PL back up might just be out of our reach, without selling/vacating the wage bill.
Realistically, I think he will be here next season as 2nd choice because his wage/injury record will prove a stumbling block to most teams. But in the event we do get in 2 strikers, then that’s probably it for Martial, whether it’s via a straight sale or another loan. And while a few are clearly irrational with their desire to sell him or their armchair psychoanalysis of his mood/behavior, the point that it’s risky having a player with his injury record as part of rotation in a position so vital is fundamentally sound.
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