Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

[NZT-One]

It’s not so much supporting the manager as supporting the notion that the job cannot be done at the drop of a hat.

It may be the case that EtH is not as good as we hoped when we appointed him. He’s almost certainly not going to be as good as SAF (surely nobody thinks he will be). However, the club and the team are more likely to develop and improve if the manager has time to implement his long term plan. That’s the crux of it but I also allow for the likelihood that EtH learns and develops himself (as I would expect any manager to do). He will get better at all the little things whilst the overarching plan moves forward.

It didn’t have to be EtH. It doesn’t have to be him. But it is him. Sure, the holy grail is a manager with a long term plan who, somehow, starts winning immediately. If you know who that guy is, I’ll take him, no questions asked.

EtH was, I’m sure, appointed for his long term vision. He’s said from day one that it is a long term project. Guaranteed he said it in his job interview. You cannot judge the success of a long term process by looking at what happens at the beginning and that applies to finishing third and wining a trophy in his first season as much as it does to starting the season so erratically this year.

Very well said. Exactly my standpoint as well.

The problem is that we're not improving.

We got off a worse start this season despite more investment in the squad. We've got a negative goal difference in the league. We lost our opening 2 games in the CL.

There is no sign of clear progression. There is sign of increasing mediocrity since the league cup final and the results bear that out. If we were slowly improving and showing signs of progression, he'd be getting more support from the people critical of him.

I see your point and I would confirm the observation. The current injury list and the disciplinary issues have to be seen as context though. I'd add the form of some players but granted, ETH is in a position to play them into a bit of form. So while I agree, there has to be some visible form of progression, I think, it would be very harsh to expect it at this very minute. The team he assembled have never really been fit. There is no question that this will effect the overall team performance. Let me tell you, I feel the hope fading away a little bit as well. But turning on him has good chances of setting things in motion that will be even worse. There is just no point in bringing in the next dead guy walking to give him his 5minutes of trying to ride the bull. I think ETH set his hopes too much on two of our players and in my eyes, it is on him to correct that mistake.

 

[Dec9003]

People are aware of the injuries, it shouldn't be the cause of the current shite on a stick football. Also, if he implemented his philosophy, other players can be fitted into it not just his starters. Otherwise we're fecked if his system falls apart because of 1 or 2 players.

Exactly, it isn’t actually true though. United struggling to play consistently attractive football this season hasn’t been due to Maguire and Evans, who both played well today. The system that we’ve shifted to simply hasn’t worked, and the shape is a little wonky when we lose the ball with the holding midfielder generally isolated.

 

[TheReligion]

I remember a certain amount of scoffing about Klopp not transforming their results overnight. I also remember that from what I saw, and the way serious football writers were approaching what he was doing, Liverpool looked pretty fluent early on, and it was just fine margins (and having the likes of Karius in goal) that kept them from winning things earlier..

As people elsewhere have said, it's not even so much about the results, but about how disjointed - even accounting for the injuries, which, yes, we all know about - the patterns of play Consistently appear to be. That's not even getting onto the decisions around signings -from going all in on Antony to the way the club addressed the gaping issues of CM this Summer, with the direction clearly led by Ten Hag. ..

I think at this point if you don’t recognise how key the loss of Shaw and Martinez has been it’s tough to have a conversation.

 

[TheReligion]

Exactly, it isn’t actually true though. United struggling to play consistently attractive football this season hasn’t been due to Maguire and Evans, who both played well today. The system that we’ve shifted to simply hasn’t worked, and the shape is a little wonky when we lose the ball with the holding midfielder generally isolated.

You have said you think United have adequate cover for Shaw, Martinez and Varane.

They have cover, obviously, but it’s not adequate as no one else can do what they do. Especially Shaw and Martinez.

This is why Shaw moved to LCB last season whilst Martinez was out. Lindelof and Maguire sat on the bench.

 

[goalscholes]

Im a bit baffled by his tactic of having a line of about 5 players in attack, with a huge gap between defence and attack.

We have no penetration, no control and end up being completely out of position when we inevitably lose the ball.

 

[Dec9003]

You have said you think United have adequate cover for Shaw, Martinez and Varane.

They have cover, obviously, but it’s not adequate as no one else can do what they do. Especially Shaw and Martinez.

United do have adequate cover for Shaw Martinez and Varane. Losing them isn’t the key factor in our season for me, it’s the tactical plan and shape mixed with a loss of form for Rashford. Again, losing two players is a weak defence for the way we’ve played this season.

 

[Baxquux]

I think at this point if you don’t recognise how key the loss of Shaw and Martinez has been it’s tough to have a conversation.

We're not a mid-table side (in finances and stature at least). There's little excuse for being so undone by missing a couple of first-choice players. You can still execute those patterns if you're a grade-A coach - with your 2nd choice or with fill-in players; it's just not going to be quite as smooth. And, as I've said, missing both of those players shouldn't affect our forward play to a huge extent (even Shaw and his potential overlapping runs or ball carrying), forward play which has also looked shoddy.

 

[TheReligion]

United do have adequate cover for Shaw Martinez and Varane. Losing them isn’t the key factor in our season for me, it’s the tactical plan and shape mixed with a loss of form for Rashford. Again, losing two players is a weak defence for the way we’ve played this season.

..and the fact you don’t link Rashford and Shaw is incredible

 

[Superden]

For someone so keen on systems and control, he seems to have a blind spot with Bruno. With the form the rest of teams in, he's a liability in midfield 3, as much as I love him. Only way he fits on would be to have 3 mids behind him, but that would mean 4312 and he doesn't seem to like that formation at all..with his reliance on rash as lw and Anthony as rw. Which makes it even odder that he went after mount.

 

[Dec9003]

..and the fact you don’t link Rashford and Shaw is incredible

Shaw played centre back quite a bit last season and Rashford continued to score goals, your argument doesn’t really add up.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

At this point I can think of putting a bet on us playing the exact same turdy football when we have a fully fit XI.

Its always easier to loop in players who aren't playing at the current moment and deem them as our mighty saviors.

 

[TheReligion]

We're not a mid-table side (in finances and stature at least). There's little excuse for being so undone by missing a couple of first-choice players. You can still execute those patterns if you're a grade-A coach - with your 2nd choice or with fill-in players; it's just not going to be quite as smooth. And, as I've said, missing both of those players shouldn't affect our forward play to a huge extent (even Shaw and his potential overlapping runs or ball carrying), forward play which has also looked shoddy.

A couple of players?

3 of the back 4 are out (could argue the whole back 4 depending on where you sit on AWB v Dalot)

 

[TheReligion]

Shaw played centre back quite a bit last season and Rashford continued to score goals, your argument doesn’t really add up.

Another huge reach.

I’ll put this one with Amrabat being a defender.

 

[Dec9003]

Another huge reach.

I’ll put this one with Amrabat being a defender.

You might want to tell Ten Hag he’s not seeing as he’s played left back half the time he’s been here.

 

[TheReligion]

You might want to tell Ten Hag he’s not seeing as he’s played left back half the time he’s been here.

Because we haven’t got a left back?

Jesus wept

 

[Dec9003]

Because we haven’t got a left back?

Jesus wept

Yeah because Ten Hag loaned out our only fit backup at the time, if Shaw had got injured a couple of weeks later than he did we wouldn’t even have Reguilon.

 

[the_cliff]

Yeah because Ten Hag loaned out our only fit backup at the time, if Shaw had got injured a couple of weeks later than he did we wouldn’t even have Reguilon.

Alvaro Fernandez ?

If he kept Alvaro Fernandez and played him left back you'd be saying why is he playing a kid that last season was playing for Preston.

Also btw, he's been absolutely shocking for Granada....

 

[Dec9003]

Alvaro Fernandez ?

If he kept Alvaro Fernandez and played him left back you'd be saying why is he playing a kid that last season was playing for Preston.

Also btw, he's been absolutely shocking for Granada....

Why are you putting words in my mouth? I’ve really enjoyed Hannibal this season and he was at Birmingham last season. He would have been fine as an emergency backup, though I get him wanting to go and get consistent minutes in his own country.

 

[TheReligion]

Yeah because Ten Hag loaned out our only fit backup at the time, if Shaw had got injured a couple of weeks later than he did we wouldn’t even have Reguilon.

and what? Where are you going with this?

 

[Bondi77]

Its strange as the poster is trying to be critical but Evans was signed as back up on the cheap (as we have no money thanks to the Glazers) and he’s actually been good. Also very much needed given the injuries.

We have no money because we pay horrendous amounts on average players or for players that have made their names at their previous clubs and are on the downside of their careers....it is as simple as that.

 

[TheReligion]

There’s some really disingenuous posters in here sadly.

I mean you’re entitled to your opinions and all but it all gets a little tiresome and silly when you can’t even acknowledge simple facts or play dumb to fit your agendas.

 

[Dec9003]

We have no money because we pay horrendous amounts on average players or for players that have made their names at their previous clubs and are on the downside of their careers....it is as simple as that.

Yep, we have a set budget and the team decided that Mount would be better use of funds than a new centre back, pretty simple.

 

[TheReligion]

We have no money because we pay horrendous amounts on average players or for players that have made their names at their previous clubs and are on the downside of their careers....it is as simple as that.

So you’re agreeing with me then.

 

[FreakyJim]

You can't have a normal discussion with the "ETH out" crowd. They've already decided he's crap and will say any number of silly things to support their agenda. There's no point in talking to these people.

 

[Fortitude]

I can understand all of the whining about our style of play, if it wasn’t for the fact that we’re missing our entire back four!

The defence is the bedrock, the foundation of any team, especially one that, as ETH wants, plays out from the back. The foundation they build gives the midfield more licence and the attackers more freedom to do what they’re best at.

ANY OTHER TEAM missing their entire first choice back four (and especially only having one fit FB) would struggle to play the style of football that ETH wants.

Now I’m not expecting the proverbial switch to flick ‘on’ when Shaw, Martinez, Varane and AWB are back, but that’s a back four that gives you a lot more of a chance to build up play with a solid foundation.

These posts are just insane when considering the literal fodder we were up against. Sheffield United are currently on course to be the worst team the PL has ever seen, after 9 games, not 1, 3 or 5.

An outright second string of ours has the quality to give them a beating and put on a display like we saw vs Palace in the league cup. There is no excuse for a performance like that with the players at our disposal. It is clear Sheffield are Championship team - it will take a miracle for them to stay up.

These complaints about squad depletion hold no weight when the team you can field obliterates the opposition in so many ways.

Our lack of our 1st team defence is not what is causing Bruno to blindly punt the ball, or have Rashford run into blind alleys, or have our midfield lose the midfield battle until Sheffield ran out of steam, nor have Antony play as badly as he did - our problems abound further up the pitch, clearly, not having our first choice backline compounds them, but it isn't the root cause.

There is nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade. We are in contention for playing the worst football in the league and we are heavily reliant on moments winning us games. That's fine and dandy until we face teams who ours are not categorically better than, at which point we get "exposed" more often than not because hero ball has an increasing likelihood of failing, or worse, making us look miles off the teams with their shit together.

There is nothing worse than watching us after watching our rivals for CL qualification this season. Each team serving up slick, coherent, team-centric football played at pace. Then we come along with our unforced errors and hurried, chaotic play that makes you wonder what we do each week in training - us going last today really exemplified this as it shines a light on our football.

I have been ten Hag in from the outset, but it is abundantly clear that he is not getting any kind of tune out of this team. He needs to make changes and swallow some pride or he'll not have a job before long, regardless. You do not need to be full strength to comfortably handle the teams we've been shocking against, and squad depletion as an excuse for what we're seeing actually shines the spotlight back on the manager rather than exonerating him - as bad as anyone might say any individual we had in our back is, they, to a man, are far and away better than Sheffield's personnel.

 

[Dec9003]

You can't have a normal discussion with the "ETH out" crowd. They've already decided he's crap and will say any number of silly things to support their agenda. There's no point in talking to these people.

We’re just people that have a different opinion to you, that’s all. We don’t think the manager is the right fit and don’t rate the direction the team is going in.

 

[FreakyJim]

I'm sure as soon as we sack him the first choice back four will heal instantly, Rashford will start helping the team and Bruno will stop giving the ball away. Oh, and Casemiro will start jogging.

 

[TheReligion]

I’m not convinced by him yet, and wasn’t desperate for us to get him like lots on here were, but we’re obviously going to have to have a lot of patience for the next season or two. He’s taken on a big job.

Seems like your patience didn’t last very long

 

[El Jefe]

"Let's keep an awful manager in job because once in our entire life time do a manager succeeded after 5 years and went on to become the best manager in history"

Unbelievable argument yet keeps getting repeated whenever any of our manager is doing an awful job.

Just give Ten Hag or Ole 5 years and they will turn into the best manager in football history.

The manager is doomed once people start bringing out the Fergie defence. It shows they’re on their last legs when in comes to excuses.

 

[Bondi77]

So you’re agreeing with me then.

So long as you are agreeing with me.
My point is that money has been made available but it has not been spent on the right players.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

The manager is doomed once people start bringing out the Fergie defence. It shows they’re on their last legs when in comes to excuses.

It's a stupid argument that's actually very disrespectful to SAF, as it implies any manager can achieve what he did as long as you give them enough time.

 

[SER19]

63% win percentage so far despite an appalling run of injuries and crazy amount of off field issues. Would be mad to even consider replacing him until at very least beyond the half way point.

 

[El Jefe]

He's losing me. We're in for a real pasting with the way we play.

I said last season that the pastings we received weren’t a coincidence. The way he sets the team up will guarantee us conceding four or more a few times a season.

 

[MackRobinson]

December will be his make-or-break: Newcastle, Chelsea, Liverpool, Bayern, West Ham, Villa in 6/8 matches.

 

[Superunknown]

December will be his make-or-break: Newcastle, Chelsea, Liverpool, Bayern, West Ham, Villa in 6/8 matches.

Christ, that's a brutal December. Can see us losing the away games and drawing the home ones.

 

[mu4c_20le]

We might see mince pies and wine again this year.

 

[wolvored]

We seem to be going backwards in passing the ball. Even some 10-20 yard passes go astray, and I am not only on about today. TH needs to sort these basics out first.

 

[DRJosh]

For me ETH has to go at some point even if not imminently. There is no organisation in our play or concerted approach. It’s all hit and hope. This has nothing to do with injuries as any player who participated in training should get the basics.

I want to see the team set up in an organised way with a definable style/approach. We’ve not had that for a while and only a glimmer of it last season.

 

[JB7]

You can't have a normal discussion with the "ETH out" crowd. They've already decided he's crap and will say any number of silly things to support their agenda. There's no point in talking to these people.

Yep. It's like that tweet that went viral after Rashford scored for England that basically said "yes he scored but shooting was completely the wrong decision". We win a game, admittedly without playing well, but still hitting the bar two or three times, not putting the ball in an open net and missing two clean through on goal chances, ie; we realistically could have racked up a 4/5-1 win. They're cultists, ETH eventually no doubt will be sacked, whether it's this season, or next, or even in five years time, they'll have their "I told you so" party and then the same people will be out with their knives for the next manager, because he will also be the problem, just like the last manager was the problem, and the one before him.

 

[justboy68]

It was definitely not a good performance, but anyway there's a lot going on right now around the club and at least we've scraped together the wins against Brentford and Sheffield. While all the ownership stuff and restructuring is getting sorted ETH has time to sort out the performances. He can hopefully sort out our attacking patterns and get us creating chances better. That's where we are really struggling.