LuisNaniencia
Sky Sports called my bluff
Him coming into cm was a big difference in winning the last 4 games before today, is that forgotten already?
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Ozil can't defend but is an intelligent player. The same goes for players like Silva, Okazaki, Coutinho, all of whom are attackers but intelligent nonetheless. You people have no idea or have warped views on intelligence.Haha, 'intelligent player'. He really isn't great. Can't defend, isn't a great passer of the ball, can't tackle, not really great with the ball. Should never play in a two men midfield by the way. He's got energy and is tidy sometimes, but that's about it. Decent squad player but shouldn't start every game for Manchester United.
I should clarify that I didn't want LvG to sub him off. Stupid change.
Agreed. Carrick was much worse, yet Herrera is the one getting subbedBizarre reaction in here. We were horrendous after he came off. Thought he was our best player before being subbed.
I think he was the least of our worries today. A shambles of a defence and a captain who is not a captain and can no longer run at even a snails pace were more of a problem. Oh and Mata getting sent off.Needs to show more composure at times. Some of his passing was really rushed and sloppy and it was pretty basic stuff.
The term intelligent player gets thrown around far too many times on here, Blind for example.Ozil can't defend but is an intelligent player. The same goes for players like Silva, Okazaki, Coutinho, all of whom are attackers but intelligent nonetheless. You people have no idea or have warped views on intelligence.
But Ozil doesen't play in a midfield two, and Ozil have what, 6-7 goals and like 20 assist? Silva and Ozil are top, top players in this league. Herrera just isn't. Can't compare them at all.Ozil can't defend but is an intelligent player. The same goes for players like Silva, Okazaki, Coutinho, all of whom are attackers but intelligent nonetheless. You people have no idea or have warped views on intelligence.
I'm not saying he was a problem or our main problem. I'm just rating his performance which i thought this thread was forI think he was the least of our worries today. A shambles of a defence and a captain who is not a captain and can no longer run at even a snails pace were more of a problem. Oh and Mata getting sent off.
He was not fabulous, but a damn sight better than most and he didn't lose us the game.I'm not saying he was a problem or our main problem. I'm just rating his performance which i thought this thread was for
I don't know about others, but I've never really seen him as the type who'll dictate a game, as in the Xavi-type midfielder who sits back and pulls the string. If he does improve and becomes a key player for us, I feel that he'd be more of a creator: someone who bursts forward, tries to find incisive passes to a striker, and has a good goals/assists contribution. He does manage to do that sometimes, but can often frustrate too.He's probably my favourite player in the squad but its becoming clear that he lacks the ability to dictate a game. I thought he would be able to develop that side of his game but he doesn't have the calmness in passing or the ability to pick the right pass consistently. Its why I'd place him in the Ramsey, Fernandinho, Dembele level of midfielder rather than the Toure, Cazorla, Cesc class in the PL.
Herrera is not the dictator type, he is the type of player that keeps the game ticking and the tempo up. It's no coincidence that when Herrera is on song, we play some of more exciting game in terms of tempo. His game will sometimes clash with a slow possession type football as an increased tempo is not risk averse and the expansive game means mistakes which LVG hates. We need a player.I don't know about others, but I've never really seen him as the type who'll dictate a game, as in the Xavi-type midfielder who sits back and pulls the string. If he does improve and becomes a key player for us, I feel that he'd be more of a creator: someone who bursts forward, tries to find incisive passes to a striker, and has a good goals/assists contribution. He does manage to do that sometimes, but can often frustrate too.
I agree with you that he'll never be a Xavi type but even No 10's like Ozil and Silva bring a calmness and decision making in passing that's crucial to their sides keeping control. I still have hope that he can go to the next level I just doubt it will be under LvG as Herrera's natural game is the antithesis to van Gaal's philosophy.I don't know about others, but I've never really seen him as the type who'll dictate a game, as in the Xavi-type midfielder who sits back and pulls the string. If he does improve and becomes a key player for us, I feel that he'd be more of a creator: someone who bursts forward, tries to find incisive passes to a striker, and has a good goals/assists contribution. He does manage to do that sometimes, but can often frustrate too.
Would he feck. He has nowhere near the tactical discipline to play in a Simeone midfield.Would fit Atletico like a glove with his pressing, even though they play a midfield two. If they chnaged it to a midfield 3, where he would play as another 8 or 10, he would be perfect for them.
Griezmann couldn't too but Simeone made him work a lot, that's why he wasn't a starter at the beginning. Someone like Vietto is eased in too.Would he feck. He has nowhere near the tactical discipline to play in a Simeone midfield.
Griezmann was an intelligent player who didn't (have to) work hard at Sociedad. Ander Herrera is a hard worker with a better engine than Griezmann had but he's thick as champ. It's harder to get someone to improve their positioning than to get them to work hard.Griezmann couldn't too but Simeone made him work a lot, that's why he wasn't a starter at the beginning. Someone like Vietto is eased in too.
And Ferreira Carrasco wasn't an intelligent player and Simeone is working well with him. My point is that Simeone builds players for his team, he doesn't buy finished products or perfect fits.Griezmann was an intelligent player who didn't (have to) work hard at Sociedad. Ander Herrera is a hard worker with a better engine than Griezmann had but he's thick as champ. It's harder to get someone to improve their positioning than to get them to work hard.
Like Griezmann, Carrasco is an attacker. That's entirely different to being a midfielder in a Simeone team.And Ferreira Carrasco wasn't an intelligent player and Simeone is working well with him. My point is that Simeone builds players for his team, he doesn't buy finished products or perfect fits.
My point is that Simeone isn't after players who fits him like a glove, he isn't an idiot he knows it doesn't exist and will have to make them fit.Like Griezmann, Carrasco is an attacker. That's entirely different to being a midfielder in a Simeone team.
Even Koke took ages to gain Simeone's trust to play centrally and he's someone who's a lot better and more disciplined than Ander.
Anyway, the final sentence of your post doesn't contradict my point, which is that he doesn't fit Atlético like a glove.
I know now.My point is that Simeone isn't after players who fits him like a glove, he isn't an idiot he knows it doesn't exist and will have to make them fit.
I hope I didn't rubbed you in the wrong way?I know now.
Nah, just thought originally you disagreed with me saying he doesn't fit Atlético like a glove (rather than agreeing he doesn't but saying that Simeone can 'fix' him).I hope I didn't rubbed you in the wrong way?
The stuff that wins things at the moment. Ander plays a pressing game, the sort we needed against Liverpool, but LvG didn't grasp how they were going to play. I would love to see us do that more, but to me unless we play the kids, the others in the midfield don't have the energy for it. The old United didn't let anyone have time on the ball. That might be why SAF was looking at the lad.So we've gone from "would fit Atletico like a glove" to "he wouldn't suit at all but Simeone would make him fit"!! By that token, I am as suitable for Simeone's midfield as Ander!!
For what it's worth, I don't think Ander is United quality or the type of playing style I like..... Would prefer somebody more mobile in either the No8 or No10 roles. He suits tiki taka much more than United's style
Agree entirely, playing Fellaini instead of Herrera against Liverpool was criminal and weak.Can't believe this lad didn't play against Liverpool.
He's had some mediocre games this season (amongst some crackers) but in a game where passion, determination and will to win is needed, it doesn't get any bigger than Liverpool away, and as far as I'm concerned Ander is one of the handful who consistently seem to have what it takes in this respect.
It made me sad seeing him in the tunnel before the game watching the other players line up and wishing them luck, as I know he would have been desperate to have been starting.
I would be gutted if he left if only because he deserves a chance under a different type of manager. He could be a club legend.
Sadly I think the experience of the last two years will see him out of the door, even though he clearly gets and loves the club.
He wouldn't get in the tiki taka of Barca or Bayern now. Maybe a smaller team.The stuff that wins things at the moment.
I'm not sure. Our current style doesn't suit him, but I'm not sure it particularly suits anyone because of how dire it is. I don't think he's consistent enough in his passing/ball retention though to play a tiki-taka sort of style.So we've gone from "would fit Atletico like a glove" to "he wouldn't suit at all but Simeone would make him fit"!! By that token, I am as suitable for Simeone's midfield as Ander!!
For what it's worth, I don't think Ander is United quality or the type of playing style I like..... Would prefer somebody more mobile in either the No8 or No10 roles. He suits tiki taka much more than United's style
I edited my post. So read it all please.He wouldn't get in the tiki taka of Barca or Bayern now. Maybe a smaller team.