[red4ever 79]

He's got Instagram and Twitter but doesn't really do the kind of shit Lingard does. Just posts about football and his life in general, specifically his wife and daughter.

Ah, so that's the reason then that Ed wants rid. Good to know cheers.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Amazed how a lot of people were not-fussed in other threads about him leaving us in the summer. Personally He's way way down on the list of people I'd want to see leaving the club... and yet here we are.

 

[Loublaze]

It's comfortably the least likely of the scenarios considering everything we know about the player. And if so why would Herrera suddenly decide to play now? You're reaching in order to fit your narrative.

I think you're denying the obvious

 

[The Nani]

And you're denying the obvious to fit yours

You rush to defend Pogba at every turn and want context for every stat yet you’re just making this up out of thin air.

 

[Loublaze]

You rush to defend Pogba at every turn and want context for every stat yet you’re just making this up out of thin air.

This is not the Pogba thread and you're conflating two unrelated subjects. Pogba would probably be slaughtered on here for this. Either Solskjaer dropped Herrera or he removed himself from selection. Which one is it in our opinion?

“Maybe the future might have been worrying him and that’s part of the reason he’s injured. Who knows? He doesn’t know.

Im not buying that bullshit

 

[Adnan]

Didn't want him to leave, but someone like Nico Barella will more than replace him and some.

 

[The Nani]

This is not the Pogba thread, and he'd probably be slaughtered on here for this. Either Solskjaer dropped him or he removed himself from selection. Which one is it in our opinion?

“Maybe the future might have been worrying him and that’s part of the reason he’s injured. Who knows? He doesn’t know.

Im not buying that bullshit

I don’t know. How is anyone to know really ? All anyone here can do is speculate.

What I do know is he should’ve been signed up well before Jones or Young.

To think of all the players in the squad he’s the one we decided to take a hard line on.

The club has totally mishandled this situation.

 

[Loublaze]

I don’t know. How is anyone to know really ? All anyone here can do is speculate.

What I do know is he should’ve been signed up well before Jones or Young.

To think of all the players in the squad he’s the one we decided to take a hard line on.

The club has totally mishandled this situation.

You're right, the situation has been mishandled. This club is going nowhere fast.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

He's comfortably better than our other CM options and the essential part of our 'engine'.

 

[mariachi-19]

He's comfortably better than our other CM options and the essential part of our 'engine'.

That engine; however, is not worth 200k a week for another 5 years. I would give him a 2 year extension at best on those wages. The issue Herrera has (and why I think United are letting him go), he's at best a 15-20 million pound player given his age and ability. We turn that into a 5 year Contract on 200k and we're paying him in excess of 50 million and he'd be very difficult to move on, on those wages.

In essence, by letting him go on a free if that were his demands, its neither a net loss or a net gain. He's at best worth 150k a week and thats being kind over the next 5 years. Which equates to roughly 30 million.

50 million (over 5 years) - Claimed worth
30 million (over 5 years) - Arguable actual worth
Difference (over 5 years) - 20 million

20 million - Arguable transfer value in current market (United lose 20 million by letting him go on a free)

So United are in a position of - over pay a player 20 million over the next 5 years or lose 20 million now and get on with life without the head ache of another person that will more than likely end up on the bench for 4 of those years... Lets not also forget the potential resources he would consume during that time period (if you think that shit isnt budgeted, think again).

 

[ti vu]

Didn't want him to leave, but someone like Nico Barella will more than replace him and some.

While I agree re Barella, I doubt this club would do the right thing signing him. I ma afraid we're stuck with persisting with the like of Pereira who hasn't progressed all these years. McTominay has progressed well, but is different kind of players.

 

[kouroux]

Thanks Jose, the signing of Sanchez is a fecking poison to this club. When a ghost earns that much, all the better players will wanna have much higher wages as a result

 

[ivaldo]

I think you're denying the obvious

I think you're so focussed on building your narrative, you can't see the wood for the trees.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

That engine; however, is not worth 200k a week for another 5 years. I would give him a 2 year extension at best on those wages. The issue Herrera has (and why I think United are letting him go), he's at best a 15-20 million pound player given his age and ability. We turn that into a 5 year Contract on 200k and we're paying him in excess of 50 million and he'd be very difficult to move on, on those wages.

In essence, by letting him go on a free if that were his demands, its neither a net loss or a net gain. He's at best worth 150k a week and thats being kind over the next 5 years. Which equates to roughly 30 million.

50 million (over 5 years) - Claimed worth
30 million (over 5 years) - Arguable actual worth
Difference (over 5 years) - 20 million

20 million - Arguable transfer value in current market (United lose 20 million by letting him go on a free)

So United are in a position of - over pay a player 20 million over the next 5 years or lose 20 million now and get on with life without the head ache of another person that will more than likely end up on the bench for 4 of those years... Lets not also forget the potential resources he would consume during that time period (if you think that shit isnt budgeted, think again).

I don't disagree.

Ideally we'd have somebody better than Herrera. He is not absolutely top class. But if we compare him to Fred, McTominay, Matic and Periera, he is better and more important than all of them. While he isn't top class and could be improved upon, and maybe holds the risk of declining in a couple of years, I'd still rather replace Matic or Fred before him. An ideal 5 CM options for next season would have Herrera in it and not Fred and Matic, IMO.

So if we want to revamp our midfield next season shouldn't we start with the ones who aren't performing well rather than the ones who are?

 

[Ace of Spades]

Thanks Jose, the signing of Sanchez is a fecking poison to this club. When a ghost earns that much, all the better players will wanna have much higher wages as a result

Spot on, players look at Sanchez and see that he earns the highest in the squad while doing feck all, of course all the others want to get a little bit more. For me, the first player we have to get rid of above all else is Sanchez.

 

[kouroux]

Spot on, players look at Sanchez and see that he earns the highest in the squad while doing feck all, of course all the others want to get a little bit more. For me, the first player we have to get rid of above all else is Sanchez.

We have to. No other player in the world earns as much while performing the same and that is without even taking into account what we mentioned

 

[Ekeke]

This is not the Pogba thread and you're conflating two unrelated subjects. Pogba would probably be slaughtered on here for this. Either Solskjaer dropped Herrera or he removed himself from selection. Which one is it in our opinion?

“Maybe the future might have been worrying him and that’s part of the reason he’s injured. Who knows? He doesn’t know.

Im not buying that bullshit

You ignored the rest of the quotes where he said he was injured and but wants to play and isnt happy when he isnt playing and would show total commitment if he did.

He was injured

 

[Ekeke]

That engine; however, is not worth 200k a week for another 5 years. I would give him a 2 year extension at best on those wages. The issue Herrera has (and why I think United are letting him go), he's at best a 15-20 million pound player given his age and ability. We turn that into a 5 year Contract on 200k and we're paying him in excess of 50 million and he'd be very difficult to move on, on those wages.

In essence, by letting him go on a free if that were his demands, its neither a net loss or a net gain. He's at best worth 150k a week and thats being kind over the next 5 years. Which equates to roughly 30 million.

50 million (over 5 years) - Claimed worth
30 million (over 5 years) - Arguable actual worth
Difference (over 5 years) - 20 million

20 million - Arguable transfer value in current market (United lose 20 million by letting him go on a free)

So United are in a position of - over pay a player 20 million over the next 5 years or lose 20 million now and get on with life without the head ache of another person that will more than likely end up on the bench for 4 of those years... Lets not also forget the potential resources he would consume during that time period (if you think that shit isnt budgeted, think again).

Any player we buy to replace him is going to cost more than that. We have to pay a large fee for them and then pay wages on top of that. When Pogba and De Gea already earn 200k or more, we're looking at at least £160k wage for an Ander replacement. And thats if we somehow get rid of Sanchez...

That would be over £41.6 million for 5 years + a transfer fee of £50 million or so from the outset.

So we're looking at near £100 million to replace him over that same period where it would cost £50 million to keep him. And thats even if we are taking the highest figure for his requested wages, which is unlikely. PSG may be offering £200k a week, I dont know, but even if they are that doesnt mean its what we have to pay to keep him.

 

[SapperBRed75]

Herrera is far more likely to have been part of the solution than a problem for Solksjaer, but the opportunity to retain him is probably gone and we cannot reasonably blame the player for that. I don’t see given recent recruitment how we could be better off as a result of running down his contract - who do we know we can bring in which tangibly improves us in his position/role? Although not perfect, Ander was one of the reasons to be cheerful over the last few years from my perspective, and we’re proactively retaining lower quality players. In critical games, I’d trust him to do a job in midfield over Perreira, Fred and possibly Matic based on this season.

 

[Bratt]

The difference with or without Herrera under OGS is insane really. Not saying it’s all because of him, but he seems to be a pretty important player for us.

With Herrera:
Games - 15 (11 in PL)

Won 11
Draw 2
Lost 2

Goals for 30
Goals against 11

Goals pr game: 2
Conceded pr game: 0,75
Points pr game: 2,64


Without Herrera:
Games - 12 (8 in PL)

Won 5
Draw 1
Lost 6

Goals for 16
Goals against 21

Goals pr game: 1,33
Conceded pr game: 1,75
Points pr game: 0,83

 

[GDaly95]

I think the games with and without thing is misleading for me. He was in the team during the honeymoon period where every single one of our players was killing it, then he was out of the team when it all went to shit. It wasn't about him.

He'll be missed. He can be replaced but it really isn't a problem we can afford to take on right now. The fact that he's one of the only lads who tries when he's playing and even he wants to leave is a damning indictment of where we are. Wish him all the best,

 

[mariachi-19]

Any player we buy to replace him is going to cost more than that. We have to pay a large fee for them and then pay wages on top of that. When Pogba and De Gea already earn 200k or more, we're looking at at least £160k wage for an Ander replacement. And thats if we somehow get rid of Sanchez...

That would be over £41.6 million for 5 years + a transfer fee of £50 million or so from the outset.

So we're looking at near £100 million to replace him over that same period where it would cost £50 million to keep him. And thats even if we are taking the highest figure for his requested wages, which is unlikely. PSG may be offering £200k a week, I dont know, but even if they are that doesnt mean its what we have to pay to keep him.

Yes, but that player isnt going to be 30 years old and have a style of playing that is pretty much based on high energy outputs. Herrera type players are fine until 32 and then have a tendency to nose dive dramatically (see Park, Essien etc). Whether we replace him or not, we will have to do it shortly irrespective and we'll get feck all for him, so why take the risk of putting him on large wages for extended period of time and end up with another Sanchez or Rooney. The club are making a decision that make sense from a financial and longevity point of view. Short term planning is exactly the reason we're in our current position.

 

[Ekeke]

Yes, but that player isnt going to be 30 years old and have a style of playing that is pretty much based on high energy outputs. Herrera type players are fine until 32 and then have a tendency to nose dive dramatically (see Park, Essien etc). Whether we replace him or not, we will have to do it shortly irrespective and we'll get feck all for him, so why take the risk of putting him on large wages for extended period of time and end up with another Sanchez or Rooney. The club are making a decision that make sense from a financial and longevity point of view. Short term planning is exactly the reason we're in our current position.

If its Gueye who is the same age, or Allan who is 28 which are the two ready made replacements, then yes they would be in a similar situation.

The only alternative is getting someone who cant currently do most of what Ander does. So we'd be paying almost double for a lesser player who hopefully might become just as good in time.

 

[red4ever 79]

We have to. No other player in the world earns as much while performing the same and that is without even taking into account what we mentioned

Imagine you are a player who plays every week and contributes to the team, and you see a guy who rarely plays and doesnt contribute and he is earning probably 300k p/w more than you. As a player you would say, I want to be paid the same as him. No more, no less.

What a farce. This Sanchez deal has killed us.

 

[kouroux]

Imagine you are a player who plays every week and contributes to the team, and you see a guy who rarely plays and doesnt contribute and he is earning probably 300k p/w more than you. As a player you would say, I want to be paid the same as him. No more, no less.

What a farce. This Sanchez deal has killed us.

Spot on

 

[Loublaze]

You ignored the rest of the quotes where he said he was injured and but wants to play and isnt happy when he isnt playing and would show total commitment if he did.

He was injured

I think you're so focussed on building your narrative, you can't see the wood for the trees.

So what do you guys make of Solskjaer's bizarre claim linking his injury to Herrera's uncertainty over his future at the club? What was the nature of his injury?

 

[Ekeke]

So what do you guys make of Solskjaer's bizarre claim linking his injury to Herrera's uncertainty over his future at the club? What was the nature of his injury?

If you read the entire thing he completely contradicted those few words in the way you want to take them.

Ole says he's injured and that he wants to play for us, is not happy when he isnt playing and if he did play, he'd be extremely committed. And we saw against Chelsea exactly that.

He said the injury might have come about because of the uncertainty of his future. If you read the full quotes where he specifically says he is injured, wants to play for us and would be completely committed then its actually saying the complete opposite of what you want to suggest.

The way I read the full story is that its a stressful/emotional time when he doesnt know whats going to happen and clearly isnt 100% happy with how the club have dealt with him and that may have had an effect on him picking up an injury. Thats just my interpretation but I'm sure its much closer to the truth than suggesting Ole is lying when he says hes injured, wants to play and would be committed if he did. So obviously its not reasonable to think that way.

 

[Loublaze]

If you read the entire thing he completely contradicted those few words in the way you want to take them.

Ole says he's injured and that he wants to play for us, is not happy when he isnt playing and if he did play, he'd be extremely committed. And we saw against Chelsea exactly that.

He said the injury might have come about because of the uncertainty of his future. If you read the full quotes where he specifically says he is injured, wants to play for us and would be completely committed then its actually saying the complete opposite of what you want to suggest.

The way I read the full story is that its a stressful/emotional time when he doesnt know whats going to happen and clearly isnt 100% happy with how the club have dealt with him and that may have had an effect on him picking up an injury. Thats just my interpretation but I'm sure its much closer to the truth than suggesting Ole is lying when he says hes injured, wants to play and would be committed if he did. So obviously its not reasonable to think that way.

Im sorry but that's not sufficient enough for me, its not uncommon for clubs, players and managers to lie about injuries when other things are happening behind closed doors. Fergie did it several times, and I remember in 2010 Rooney actually contradicted Fergie's claim that he suffered an ankle injury (Rooney missed two games as a result). This was a week before Rooney made his first transfer request in late October, 2010. What was Herrera's supposed injury?

 

[ivaldo]

Im sorry but that's not sufficient enough for me, its not uncommon for clubs, players and managers to lie about injuries when other things are happening behind closed doors. Fergie did it several times, and I remember in 2010 Rooney actually contradicted Fergie's claim that he suffered an ankle injury (Rooney missed two games as a result). This was a week before Rooney made his first transfer request in late October, 2010. What was Herrera's supposed injury?

So let me get this straight. The first, ambiguous part of his statement is good enough for you, but the second, unambiguous part isn't good enough, despite it being substantiated by everything we know about Herrera, what everyone says about him, and what we've witnessed over the last 4 and a half years? Rightttttt.

 

[Loublaze]

So let me get this straight. The first, ambiguous part of his statement is good enough for you, but the second, unambiguous part isn't good enough, despite it being substantiated by everything we know about Herrera, what everyone says about him, and what we've witnessed over the last 4 and a half years? Rightttttt.

What was the nature of his injury?

 

[ivaldo]

What was the nature of his injury?

A muscle injury.

You haven't responded to my post.

 

[Ekeke]

Im sorry but that's not sufficient enough for me, its not uncommon for clubs, players and managers to lie about injuries when other things are happening behind closed doors. Fergie did it several times, and I remember in 2010 Rooney actually contradicted Fergie's claim that he suffered an ankle injury (Rooney missed two games as a result). This was a week before Rooney made his first transfer request in late October, 2010. What was Herrera's supposed injury?

Ask Ole. Or Ander.

I'd rather believe someone is honest rather than a liar by default. If I have good reason to doubt someone because of another incident then sure, but I dont wear a tin hat so everyone has a clean slate for me. Ole and Ander included

 

[Loublaze]

A muscle injury.

You haven't responded to my post.

Ask Ole. Or Ander.

I'd rather believe someone is honest rather than a liar by default. If I have good reason to doubt someone because of another incident then sure, but I dont wear a tin hat so everyone has a clean slate for me. Ole and Ander included

Herrera has been a consummate professional during his time here. Im however coming to my own conclusion based on the information I have about this specific situation. You've clearly come to your own conclusion and that's fine. Neither of us know for certain.

Im just not buying Ole's explanation, someone is not being fully forthcoming, and the timing of the injury and his contractual situation seems pretty convenient especially when neither the player or the club/Ole have officially given the nature of the injury. Do you know what specific muscle it was? I've read reports anywhere from a recurring ankle injury, hamstring, general hip problems and quadriceps.

 

[Ekeke]

Herrera has been a consummate professional during his time here. Im however coming to my own conclusion based on the information I have about this specific situation. You've clearly come to your own conclusion and that's fine. Neither of us know for certain.

Im just not buying Ole's explanation, someone is not being fully forthcoming, and the timing of the injury and his contractual situation seems pretty convenient especially when neither the player or the club/Ole have officially given the nature of the injury. Do you know what specific muscle it was? I've read reports anywhere from a recurring ankle injury, hamstring, general hip problems and quadriceps.

No, I havent come to a conclusion.

Its all rumours other than what our manager has said and Ander himself. Those are the only quotes. They arent conclusive because he hasnt signed and hasnt said hes staying and nobody else has.

So when some quotes say he's off to PSG and that we didnt play him because he was pretending to be injured because hes moving on, then I'll maybe I'll believe those too. I'll have to choose whos telling the truth

But for now its uncontested. So you can either think Ander and Ole are liars, presumably having no examples of them lying in the past or you can just go with what you're being told by the people who would know

 

[Loublaze]

No, I havent come to a conclusion.

Its all rumours other than what our manager has said and Ander himself. Those are the only quotes. They arent conclusive because he hasnt signed and hasnt said hes staying and nobody else has.

So when some quotes say he's off to PSG and that we didnt play him because he was pretending to be injured because hes moving on, then I'll maybe I'll believe those too. I'll have to choose whos telling the truth

But for now its uncontested. So you can either think Ander and Ole are liars, presumably having no examples of them lying in the past or you can just go with what you're being told by the people who would know

I wouldn't call them liars, just not forthcoming. As far as I know Herrera hasn't addressed the situation so I can't deem a man with sealed lips a liar.

 

[Sandikan]

Was surprised to see him back in, as I thought him missing had been a bit niggle, and a bit left out as his head's not in it.

Maybe he might still stay?

If Pogba goes, and he does, we've suddenly got a humongous hole in there.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Would rather us just pay Sanchez out and let him leave than see more players use his salary as a negotiating tactic.

 

[ivaldo]

Herrera has been a consummate professional during his time here. Im however coming to my own conclusion based on the information I have about this specific situation. You've clearly come to your own conclusion and that's fine. Neither of us know for certain.

Im just not buying Ole's explanation, someone is not being fully forthcoming, and the timing of the injury and his contractual situation seems pretty convenient especially when neither the player or the club/Ole have officially given the nature of the injury. Do you know what specific muscle it was? I've read reports anywhere from a recurring ankle injury, hamstring, general hip problems and quadriceps.

Right, but the information we have available is heavily weighted against what you are proposing. You seem stuck on this ambiguous statement that Ole directly contradicts far more comprehensively moments later.

No you aren't buying his explanation, you're choosing to ignore that and then stretch to make a vague statement fit your narrative. Even you must admit the balance of probability is definitely not in your favour.


Ole had said Herrera would hopefully be back for the City or Chelsea game and that's happened. For someone you believe to be faking an injury in order avoid playing because of a breakdown in negotiations, it makes no sense for him to then be back playing against Chelsea and showing more commitment than any other player on the pitch.

Ole on Herrera:

“Hopefully he can be available for Chelsea or City, but I’m not sure. He got another muscle injury.”

What reports have you been going by?

The more I type the more incredible your improbable theory and the run of events you choose to believe become. Ole is going seriously out of his way to supposedly support a player who refuses to play for him a will leave at the end of the season. Yet is happy to dig into Martial who signed a contract just 6 months ago.

 

[Loublaze]

Right, but the information we have available is heavily weighted against what you are proposing. You seem stuck on this ambiguous statement that Ole directly contradicts far more comprehensively moments later.

No you aren't buying his explanation, you're choosing to ignore that and then stretch to make a vague statement fit your narrative. Even you must admit the balance of probability is definitely not in your favour.


Ole had said Herrera would hopefully be back for the City or Chelsea game and that's happened. For someone you believe to be faking an injury in order avoid playing because of a breakdown in negotiations, it makes no sense for him to then be back playing against Chelsea and showing more commitment than any other player on the pitch.

Ole on Herrera:


What reports have you been going by?

The more I type the more incredible your improbable theory and the run of events you choose to believe become. Ole is going seriously out of his way to supposedly support a player who refuses to play for him a will leave at the end of the season. Yet is happy to dig into Martial who signed a contract just 6 months ago.

Why say it in the first place? He probably realized he said too much and attempted to clean it up. Sorry, im not convinced. Ive come to my conclusion, we'll just have to agree to disagree. By reports I mean things i've read in general when ive looked up his injury, things said here, in papers and on sites like transfermarkt and physio room. Only one source mentioned quads specifically. The rest are vague as your general muscle injury answer if they're not just repeating injuries he's already suffered recently or making things up

 

[ivaldo]

Why say it in the first place? He probably realized he said too much and attempted to clean it up. Sorry, im not convinced. Ive come to my conclusion, we'll just have to agree to disagree. By reports I mean things i've read in general when ive looked up his injury, things said here, in papers and on sites like transfermarkt and physio room. Only one source mentioned quads specifically. The rest are vague as your general muscle injury answer if they're not just repeating injuries he's already suffered recently or making things up

That's fine. I mean, you're refusing to believe significantly more reliable and substantial pieces of information in order to cling to this throw away comment. It's not my answer, it's the managers answer. A sort of response we hear quite often. The fact he has returned to play for us around the predicted return date, and outwork anyone else on our side, should be the end of it, because it makes your theory completely null and void. It completely contradicts what you're saying.

Before we end it though, you need to explain to me why Ole would flat out lie to defend a player who is leaving us and refuses to play, particularly when he's been tough on other players.