[haram]

1. Correlation =/= causation.
2. He asked what balance. Elaborate please.
3. Our front 3 should be fluid. The point is that Martial and Rashford should both play.

You keep asking me what balance Mata brings to the team and I have explained it about 3 times now.

Mata covers a lot of ground. He is the link player between transitions. He offers the link with Valencia. He creates space for Valencia. He sits inbetween the man behind our striker and Valencia. He tracks back well, he drops deep and helps the midfield, not only with defending, but with a higher press and with ball retention and ball circulation. He is a more natural attacking midfielder. Mourinho is extracting his best abilities and setting him into a a position which allows him to be effective in transition and build up play. He is also comfortable coming inside and is a good crosser. Mourinho is doing a great job with Mata.

Mata is not being used a 'defensive' option. It's about balance. It's about pressing effectively, it's about keeping the ball in dangerous areas, it's about aiding a two man midfield. He is not playing like a traditional wing man for a reason. Mourinho did not go after a RW in the summer for a reason. Mata has a job in the team which offers balance. It's about the positions he picks up both on and off the ball. The areas he works in, the area he presses in.

People keep saying the front three should be 'fluid'. Please explain this, not just in terms of 'attacking', but in terms of build up, transition and pressing. It makes more sense when Rashford is up front. Not on the right.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Jesus there is like a change of gear from him just before he goes to nudge him off the ball. Was already travelling at some speed then drops a gear and goes up a level.

 

[TRA007]

You keep asking me what balance Mata brings to the team and I have explained it about 3 times now.

Mata covers a lot of ground. He is the link player between transitions. He offers the link with Valencia. He creates space for Valencia. He sits inbetween the man behind our striker and Valencia. He tracks back well, he drops deep and helps the midfield, not only with defending, but with a higher press and with ball retention and ball circulation. He is a more natural attacking midfielder. Mourinho is extracting his best abilities and setting him into a a position which allows him to be effective in transition and build up play. He is also comfortable coming inside and is a good crosser. Mourinho is doing a great job with Mata.

Mata is not being used a 'defensive' option. It's about balance. It's about pressing effectively, it's about keeping the ball in dangerous areas, it's about aiding a two man midfield. He is not playing like a traditional wing man for a reason. Mourinho did not go after a RW in the summer for a reason. Mata has a job in the team which offers balance. It's about the positions he picks up both on and off the ball. The areas he works in, the area he presses in.

People keep saying the front three should be 'fluid'. Please explain this, not just in terms of 'attacking', but in terms of build up, transition and pressing. It makes more sense when Rashford is up front. Not on the right.

You are not Mourinho in disguise are you because every post and logic, no matter how absurd, in the end justifies Mourinho's decisions.

 

[haram]

You are not Mourinho in disguise are you because every post and logic, no matter how absurd, in the end justifies Mourinho's decisions.

What is absurd about playing Mata on the right? Please tell me. After the things I have mentioned and the job Mata does. Please go ahead.

 

[TRA007]

What is absurd about playing Mata on the right? Please tell me. After the things I have mentioned and the job Mata does. Please go ahead.

What is absurd is saying that not buying a RW is justified, I love Mata and do think he can do a decent enough job on the right against lesser teams, but in high paced games he struggles. We needed a RW, Mou should have looked for one or a RB even who could deliver good crosses.

 

[haram]

What is absurd is saying that not buying a RW is justified, I love Mata and do think he can do a decent enough job on the right against lesser teams, but in high paced games he struggles. We needed a RW, Mou should have looked for one or a RB even who could deliver good crosses.

Did you read my post on what Mata offers us on the right? It is not the job of a traditional RW. So yeah, Mourinho would argue that he didn't need one of those for this United team.

 

[Toddler]

I am so happy for Martial right now. Even if he is not getting things done perfectly, he is almost every time doing something right and causing problems for the opposition. Lets see if he can elevate his game a level or two in the future and become a consistent world beater for us! Exiting times with him and Rashford.

Btw my first post,

Cheers to all reds.

 

[Foxbatt]

I think Martial has problems still. Look at the 3rd goal. He was in front of both Pogba and Rashford. In fact Rashford was not even in the frame, yet he sprinted and got the header to Pogba who also sprinted. Martial was just jogging. He is more talented than Rashford I think and has much better ball control and dribbling but he needs to get this side into his game. Yes he did sprint back and defensive work has improved a lot too.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

I think Martial has problems still. Look at the 3rd goal. He was in front of both Pogba and Rashford. In fact Rashford was not even in the frame, yet he sprinted and got the header to Pogba who also sprinted. Martial was just jogging. He is more talented than Rashford I think and has much better ball control and dribbling but he needs to get this side into his game. Yes he did sprint back and defensive work has improved a lot too.

Martial won the ball for that goal in midfield and took a knock that's why he was slower.

 

[Borden]

You keep asking me what balance Mata brings to the team and I have explained it about 3 times now.

Mata covers a lot of ground. He is the link player between transitions. He offers the link with Valencia. He creates space for Valencia. He sits inbetween the man behind our striker and Valencia. He tracks back well, he drops deep and helps the midfield, not only with defending, but with a higher press and with ball retention and ball circulation. He is a more natural attacking midfielder. Mourinho is extracting his best abilities and setting him into a a position which allows him to be effective in transition and build up play. He is also comfortable coming inside and is a good crosser. Mourinho is doing a great job with Mata.

Mata is not being used a 'defensive' option. It's about balance. It's about pressing effectively, it's about keeping the ball in dangerous areas, it's about aiding a two man midfield. He is not playing like a traditional wing man for a reason. Mourinho did not go after a RW in the summer for a reason. Mata has a job in the team which offers balance. It's about the positions he picks up both on and off the ball. The areas he works in, the area he presses in.

People keep saying the front three should be 'fluid'. Please explain this, not just in terms of 'attacking', but in terms of build up, transition and pressing. It makes more sense when Rashford is up front. Not on the right.

Of course he is. Despite Mata being mostly a complete passenger for us so far, and having only accumulated one goal and one assist in almost 800-900 minutes of football, and in general being a shadow of the player he was 4-5 years ago for Chelsea. But yeah, Mourinho is doing a "great job" with him because it's about "balance".

Jesus.

 

[Santoryo]

I think Martial has problems still. Look at the 3rd goal. He was in front of both Pogba and Rashford. In fact Rashford was not even in the frame, yet he sprinted and got the header to Pogba who also sprinted. Martial was just jogging. He is more talented than Rashford I think and has much better ball control and dribbling but he needs to get this side into his game. Yes he did sprint back and defensive work has improved a lot too.

He took a knock and was limping a bit during that run.

 

[haram]

Of course he is. Despite Mata being mostly a complete passenger for us so far, and having only accumulated one goal and one assist in almost 800-900 minutes of football, and in general being a shadow of the player he was 4-5 years ago for Chelsea. But yeah, Mourinho is doing a "great job" with him because it's about "balance".

Jesus.

The things Mata offers do not directly amount to goals and assists. Did you even read the post?

Yeah guys, Mourinho is playing Mata for banter and because Mata is totally a defensive player. Lets ignore his contribution in playmaking, link play, transitions, pressing and positional play. Lets fling Rashford out there he is quick and can cross it with his right foot.

 

[Borden]

The things Mata offers do not directly amount to goals and assists. Did you even read the post?

Did you? I said "in general being a shadow of the player he was 4-5 years ago".

Also:

a) Mata does not cover particularly much ground.
b) His link play with Valencia is nothing special, nor is his link play with our other forwards.
c) His defensive work isn't very impressive.
d) He's is not a very effective presser.

You're just making shit up mate.

I'm well aware of what an in-form Mata brings to the team (or could bring to the team if he performed like he did for Chelsea, which he has yet to do for us), but trying to pretend that the way he's playing so far this season is somehow indispensible to the team or that Mourinho is doing a "great job" with him is laughable considering the player he once was for Chelsea.

 

[haram]

Yeah ok, I'm making shit up. This is the Martial thread anyway, Im done debating in here about Mata.

 

[RedPed]

Becoming one of my favourite United players along with Poggers and Rojo. He's only going to get better as well. That £56m will seem like a snip at this rate.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

I think Martial has problems still. Look at the 3rd goal. He was in front of both Pogba and Rashford. In fact Rashford was not even in the frame, yet he sprinted and got the header to Pogba who also sprinted. Martial was just jogging. He is more talented than Rashford I think and has much better ball control and dribbling but he needs to get this side into his game. Yes he did sprint back and defensive work has improved a lot too.

To be fair to him he had just taken a knock in the tackle in the build up to that and was limping/skipping in that moment, then he realises there is a chance and tries to run a bit.

 

[Sayros]

I am so happy for Martial right now. Even if he is not getting things done perfectly, he is almost every time doing something right and causing problems for the opposition. Lets see if he can elevate his game a level or two in the future and become a consistent world beater for us! Exiting times with him and Rashford.

Btw my first post,

Cheers to all reds.

Welcome to the Caf! Tony is definitely turning the corner on his difficult sophomore season at the club. He's really impressed me so far this season along with Rashford. They're definitely on pace for their best season at the club if they keep this up!

 

[Sayros]

Becoming one of my favourite United players along with Poggers and Rojo. He's only going to get better as well. That £56m will seem like a snip at this rate.

It seemed like such a high price at the time, most expensive teenager before Mbappe who ended up costing 120m more. As brilliant as I think Mbappe is, he is not worth that much more. This will end up being a great deal done before Neymar changed the whole game. For his age, talent, and current ability, he is a steal in this day and age in my eyes.

 

[meninred]

I think there is a clip of andy cole being interviewed about rashford and martial and where their best position is.

 

[Damien]

I think there is a clip of andy cole being interviewed about rashford and martial and where their best position is.

Thanks!

http://www.espn.co.uk/video/latest-videos/600/video/3277035

On Martial: "I'm hoping he'll be at United for a long time because if you look at the talent that kid's got, he's frightening. He's got great feet. He scores goals, he creates goals and I look at him sometimes and I think he's misunderstood. People say he doesn't look interested, he doesn't smile or whatever but we've seen this season what he can do. I think he mentioned the other day that he's had his ups and downs with the manager but I think he just wants the arm around the shoulder and you'll definitely get the best out of him."

All of it is here: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/and...inho-plus-a-lukaku-zlatan-partnership.433928/

 

[amolbhatia50k]

You keep asking me what balance Mata brings to the team and I have explained it about 3 times now.

Mata covers a lot of ground. He is the link player between transitions. He offers the link with Valencia. He creates space for Valencia. He sits inbetween the man behind our striker and Valencia. He tracks back well, he drops deep and helps the midfield, not only with defending, but with a higher press and with ball retention and ball circulation. He is a more natural attacking midfielder. Mourinho is extracting his best abilities and setting him into a a position which allows him to be effective in transition and build up play. He is also comfortable coming inside and is a good crosser. Mourinho is doing a great job with Mata.

Mata is not being used a 'defensive' option. It's about balance. It's about pressing effectively, it's about keeping the ball in dangerous areas, it's about aiding a two man midfield. He is not playing like a traditional wing man for a reason. Mourinho did not go after a RW in the summer for a reason. Mata has a job in the team which offers balance. It's about the positions he picks up both on and off the ball. The areas he works in, the area he presses in.

People keep saying the front three should be 'fluid'. Please explain this, not just in terms of 'attacking', but in terms of build up, transition and pressing. It makes more sense when Rashford is up front. Not on the right.

Except he doesn't do much of that at a high level. Mata is no longer good enough to be a starter at a high quality team. His work rate is fine but he's light as a feather. I'd back Martial to try back and win the ball anyday, same with defending corners. Link between defence and attack? That's true I suppose but both Mata and Mkhitarian should be doing this well on paper but usually end up either passing it sideways most of the time or losing the ball.

Anyway this talk about balance is a lot of fuss about nothing. Play three in the middle and you don't have to sacrifice anything. It's Jose's choice to play Mata, Mkhitarian or (now) Zlatan as a 10/second striker which makes it hard to fit in both young stars.

 

[Toddler]

Welcome to the Caf! Tony is definitely turning the corner on his difficult sophomore season at the club. He's really impressed me so far this season along with Rashford. They're definitely on pace for their best season at the club if they keep this up!

Thank you very much!

Yeah, he seems also very happy despite his non emotional facial expressions. The lad is like an ice man most of the time, haha. I wish that he will start against Fc Basel, as much game time as possible for him!

 

[Munkehboi]

The lad seems to actually be enjoying himself and I think that's the most important bit of it all for me. He has so much talent and potential, without question but you could be a genius and if your not happy turning up for work, its going to effect you negativly.

Hope he continues to smile

 

[Sammyjunn]

That’s the one! Nice, thanks.

Didnt really really outpace him, Yedlin's touch slowed him down.

 

[sglowrider]

Pogba-Lingard-Lukaku doing the Martial chant:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ny-Martial-s-chant.html#v-9000864525487683941

 

[Rossa]

Didnt really really outpace him, Yedlin's touch slowed him down.

It kinda did, when looking at it again, but Yedling also had quite a head start and Yedlin also accelerated. I think it was quite impressive from Martial, and he also accelerated past him a couple of times in attack. I'm doubting he's faster than Yedlin, but he's thereabouts. What was promising was that last season, Martial seemed timid when faced with fast fullbacks; he didn't try to go on the outside and always went to cut inside. Now he jogs towards a player like Yedlin, puts on the afterburners and is able to get a yard. He seems more confident.

 

[AshRK]

Very disappointing game so far. The amount of time he just stand stills rather than run forward is astonishing.

 

[AshRK]

Two good moves now.

 

[Damien]

Very disappointing game so far. The amount of time he just stand stills rather than run forward is astonishing.

And just as you say that he puts in a brilliant cross. Had a chance shortly after too so seems to have perked up a bit.

 

[December_16]

Could've scored twice in the last two minutes.

 

[Sammyjunn]

Turns it up and brilliant moves by him.

 

[Rado_N]

His close control at speed is phenomenal.

 

[Z2United]

The kid is fast! When he is on he looks so dangerous, wish he could be more of a consistent threat.

 

[AshRK]

And just as you say that he puts in a brilliant cross. Had a chance shortly after too so seems to have perked up a bit.

He needs to do that more. I feel he doesn't utilise his pace that much . He is really quick but because he always is on a backfoot kills his momentum.

 

[redom]

Need to get him in the game more, how he kept ahead of the defenders then was mind boggling.

 

[walkinhop]

He is one of those players who if they played for another team we would be drooling over. Our tactics don't flatter him but you can just see he's got it in him. One of only few players i wouldn't sell.

 

[Scorpy]

Much better end of the first half for him (brilliant cross). The first 40 minutes were rather poor.

 

[Adisa]

Been very deep for most of the half.

 

[haram]

Has he got quicker?

 

[Adisa]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date