We need a manager who can do both, develop our young players and deliver trophies, like SAF or Guardiola.
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Remind me again how Guardiola's first season in the Premier League went?
And SAF's for that matter.
Because Guardiola is similar to LVG, their philosophy are almost the same and Martial was magical under LVG; and because Guardiola has the history of handling and developing young talented players (Messi, Pedro, Pique) and even Man City younger players are developing well under his guidance (see Sane, Sterling, Jesus).
Martial will be fine if the manager just places some faith in the lad and stop playing bloody stupid mind games. Get some other coaches in to help with his (and Rash ford's) development and decision making, since it doesn't seem as if Jose is interested.
It's madness people not wanting to give this guy a chance. Opposition fans would love to get their hands on him. We'd be really stupid to do anything other than help him to get to the level he needs.
It's madness people not wanting to give this guy a chance. Opposition fans would love to get their hands on him. We'd be really stupid to do anything other than help him to get to the level he needs.
I'm afraid he won't get a fair chance. It will be like last season - play a blinder every game, and as soon as you don't you're getting benched for 3 games. If we sign Perisic even more so.
Can you imagine that? Sacrificing Martial for Perisic. That would be a seriously stupid decision by the club. Jose will just have to adapt. This is so frustrating. Give him to SAF and you'd see what he'd become. Hell Guardiola, Wenger et al would all take him and get the best out of him. Bloody depressing this.
His team came 3rd in a hard league and with an aging squad and having to accommodate too many young players; let me remind you that we were 6th after breaking the world record fee and spending almost 150M. But don't take me wrong, I am not saying Pep is better than Jose, I don't even want to debate about it, just saying the former knows how to handle and develop young players and some of our young players would have benefited from playing for him.
He looked jaded but I still remember him putting in good performances especially in the FA cup.
Someone asked me how would Poch have handled him, in the right hands this kid is a star, no doubt. Not all players are robots, he isn't one too. Just little bit of faith and patience with go a long way. If SAF could work such wonders with Nani, I see no reason why this should not be given every opportunity.
He is very crucial if we are going to win the title next year. At his age, volatility in performances can happen especially when the expectations are as big as we had for him. Ronaldo had an okey debut season for example. At Euro 2004, he looked better and consistently good. But up until the second half of 2005-2006 he could not reach that level again. Martial had some personal problems and I am sure that led to his decline last year. Now this year, with a relaxed summer and also knowing what manager expects from him, I expect him to clinch his spot on the wing.
If he makes the leap, we can win it this year. And I hope he will. He has enormous potential.
If he makes the leap, we can win it this year. And I hope he will. He has enormous potential.
Did he? Bar an 18 month spell Nani's form was hot and cold for us, most of that being accustomed to the fact that SAF would opt for the safer Valencia in Nani's favoured position.
Was MOM in a few matches towards the end of that season though.
Still looking at the make up of the squad. I still think he's our most important player from an attacking perspective. If he was in form, we would have nailed top four last year.
I'm encouraged with how many times Mourinho praised towards the end of the season. Even in matches he didn't have much joy like the CIty and Spurs game.
I'm encouraged with how many times Mourinho praised towards the end of the season. Even in matches he didn't have much joy like the CIty and Spurs game.
This is so true. Remember when Ronnie first came on the scene? He could be quite frustrating at first. However, SAF recognised the huge talent he had and adjusted his management of him accordingly. When players are that talented, you have to give a little. Jose doesn't seem to want do do that, everyone must be tough and defensive. He just isn't subtle or creative in his approach with regards to players like this.
The worst thing about it is how some fans just eat up the propaganda fed to them by Jose. Suddenly, they forget everything he showed in his debut season, and just accept that because Jose doesn't rate him he's no good. Lukaku wasn't even given a chance with Jose, yet Jose himself has now spent £75M of our club's money correcting that bad decision he made. It shows that our manager does, and can make mistakes. Therefore to follow him blindly is just bewildering to me.
Anyway, I hope the lad works hard and keeps his head down. I just hope for the best.
I'm certainly hoping for more from Martial this year.
Last season he was probably the most disappointing aspect, given how well he lit the place up in his 1st season.
From Jose's comments and selection choices, Martial must know its time to up his game or face another year on the bench. Time for him to work hard and put some performances in
Last season he was probably the most disappointing aspect, given how well he lit the place up in his 1st season.
From Jose's comments and selection choices, Martial must know its time to up his game or face another year on the bench. Time for him to work hard and put some performances in
Ah so you're basing it on your opinion.
LVG & Pep are a million miles apart from each other, United under LVG was tedious, City play much more attacking possession based. Martial didn't looked arsed for most of last season, or just ran down blind alleys. Second season syndrome, a classic case of.
They are not a million miles apart from each other. Plus, City's players are better and do as they are told under Guardiola. Whilst we had players who thought they are all coaches and didn't listen to LVGs's instructions. If you're not willing to learn, then of course nothing will work.
This.
Guardiola gave precisely zero debuts to youth players this season. In fact he's trying to get rid of the one academy product he has.
It's one thing to develop youth when you're comfortable letting Xavi, Iniesta and Messi run things for you. It's completely different when you're in a new job and the pressure is on to win something.
I am not talking about bringing through some youth players from the academy, I am talking about developing some quality young players you do have in your disposal, getting the best out of them and make them great.
Now it's the players fault we played terrible football that cost LVG his job. Nothing to do with dropping players who showed a bit of invention in their game. Having the team play ultra safe, slow as hell football, this was all the players not following orders. Somehow I think not.
Martial had a poor season, as he didn't have a full pre season, was affected by off field issues, didn't follow Jose' orders and wasn't prepared to work hard enough. Jose is a hard task master, either players win him over or they leave. Cannot believe that some want the tail to wag the dog on this thread. Martial isn't a Messi or Ronaldo, he's a talented youngish player.
Odd to see Stones looking far worse under Pep, seeing how he's so good with young players.
But he hasn't done any of that this season either. Certainly no more than Mourinho.
He developed Sane pretty well tbf.
Now we have got the dreaded second season syndrome out of the way Im hoping Martial gets back on track again this year. The potential is there undeniably and there were signs towards the end of the season that he was getting the managers requirements more than at the start of the season.
I do fear Martial is one of those players that brings his baggage on to the pitch with him though.
I do fear Martial is one of those players that brings his baggage on to the pitch with him though.
People trying to blame mourinho forget his form was poor prior to mourinho's arrival, fron the euros onwards. Also the arguments I see for his tactical inhibitors-tracking back- are the same ones used for pogba. Since when was defending not part of the game?
Watch madrid vs bayern and you'll see robben helping out lahm against marcelo, neymar is tracking back against psg, sane against rose. My point is there is a tactical inhibitor but it's not having to track back: it's mourinho failing to isolate martial with his fullback. Martial's poor movement doesn't help but then it's the coaches responsibility to correct that.
All in all, I expect another double figure season like his first but I have a feeling he will have matured tactically as well.
Watch madrid vs bayern and you'll see robben helping out lahm against marcelo, neymar is tracking back against psg, sane against rose. My point is there is a tactical inhibitor but it's not having to track back: it's mourinho failing to isolate martial with his fullback. Martial's poor movement doesn't help but then it's the coaches responsibility to correct that.
All in all, I expect another double figure season like his first but I have a feeling he will have matured tactically as well.
Sane and Jesus in good shape. Sterling improved from how he was under Pellegrini too, though towards the end of the season found himself out of favour.
He must be dying to get back in the first eleven and feel he has something to prove after the disastrous past season, I feel like we'll be seeing great things from him this season.
I hope so.
How much credit can you give Guardiola for that though?
Sane - well established talent, and his productivity has actually dipped from his last season at Schalke.
Jesus - was the Brazilian player of the year before his move.
Sterling - is he really any better than he was at Liverpool?
Im not saying Pep has done nothing but he really hasnt been some champion of youth at City. Mourinho has been much better.
He'll struggle if he doesn't add movement to his game. Constantly wanting the ball to feet isn't going to work. It was easy to double up on him. Last season his play style was far too easy to read.
He really was incredibly ineffective last season.
He really was incredibly ineffective last season.
A lot of the discussion of Martial's game and Mourinho's use of him seems to look past a basic point: Mourinho simply refuses to start Martial and Rashford on the wings together in the 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-4-1 formations. Why? I'm not sure, but probably because he thinks they are too similar, both essentially wide forwards that don't contribute a lot defensively and aren't suited (like Mata or Mkhi) for dropping deeper and helping with the buildup. This isn't a crazy quirk of Mourinho. Lots of managers who play these formations prefer to have an offensive oriented wide forward on one side and on the other side either a runner or a wide playmaker. Wenger will not start Alexis and Walcott on the two wings together either.
The basic reality for Martial last year was that he only got a chance to start when either Ibra or Rashford was unavailable or, for the latter, not selected due to form. I think it will be the same for him this year, but now with Lukaku at CF instead of Ibra. Its not Perisic that will hurt Martial's playing time, because Perisic would be playing a different role, as the hard charging and defensibly responsible winger that balances the more offensive wide forward. The issue is Rashford. Assuming Lukaku is an automatic selection at CF in most matches, Martial will have to beat out Rashford to make the starting XI. And this will be hard, because Mourinho clearly really rates Rashford.
The basic reality for Martial last year was that he only got a chance to start when either Ibra or Rashford was unavailable or, for the latter, not selected due to form. I think it will be the same for him this year, but now with Lukaku at CF instead of Ibra. Its not Perisic that will hurt Martial's playing time, because Perisic would be playing a different role, as the hard charging and defensibly responsible winger that balances the more offensive wide forward. The issue is Rashford. Assuming Lukaku is an automatic selection at CF in most matches, Martial will have to beat out Rashford to make the starting XI. And this will be hard, because Mourinho clearly really rates Rashford.
There are rumors he may be on his way out, with the club looking to sell and recoup at least £30m. Anyone believing this? I think regardless, if his situation doesn't change this season he will be gone a year from now. It's a shame, he's a very talented player, but he's not enough of a hard-worker and I think Mourinho is also not a good coach to develop him.
We have not played a game yet this season and this is already on page two!
Good first season, mixed second but he looked jaded towards the FA Cup final and Euro. The much needed break, and proper preseason might just rejuvenate him. We shall see, and who knows he might play better with Lukaku than Ibra.
Love the lad, think he'll kick on this season and show us all what he can truly do and these rumours are bollox he's our only left winger ffs.
Rashford at 20 can be the top goal scorer, just shows you the extent of the change.
Mourinho gave more minutes to youth than any other manager last season. He also bagged us two trophies.
Giving minutes doesn't necessarily equal developing and nurturing young talent to improve. You will develop and gain experience from playing, sure, but that's considering you are in a positive environment with a manager helping you grow. I haven't seen Mourinho help a player improve his game in recent times, and I can't really think of a young player ever but I could be wrong. In my opinion, he does better with players who already have experience and he can steer them to his system and tactics easier. Youth players have so much to learn, it's a frustrating process that I don't think he's very interested in.
Maybe Mou will surprise me though and we'll see Rashford and Martial coming through this third season with new tricks up their sleeves. If they get minutes but their game isn't changing, then he can give as many minutes to youngsters as he wants, he's clearly not reaching and developing them.
Herrera, Bailly, Valencia, Rashford, Rojo, Jones (before he turned into a crock again), Darmian, Romero (?) and Lingard have all improved under him throughout the season.
Oh God, another one of these Pep disciples. How apt and predictable your username is
Weird that KDB had his poorest season at City last year then and that City won absolutely feck all, and that Pep nurtured pretty much zero youth.
If fecking Sane, Stirling & Jesus are included then might as well throw in Pogba and Bailly for Mourinho then.
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