[NoLogo]

Talk about being brainwashed. We're talking about a manager who is known to mismanage exceptional young talents before and him being up to his old tricks is nothing surprising.

But go on and tell everyone how they are overreacting while Mourinho is this faultless figure.

And this is a forum to talk about these things so don't act surprised there are discussions talking about our players and managers whether they are positive or negative talks.

I feel Mou needs to give his exceptional talents more trust, not a free pass but more trust. SAF was great at that, he gave his young players the trust to play a lot of games but when he wasn't happy with the way they played he would let them know in no uncertain terms as well. If you have exceptional talent in your squad play them, even if they have a bad phase but if you don't play them and don't trust them there is no way they'll ever overcome these phases at your club.

He really needs to overcome this attitude of only playing the players who are currently doing a bit more precise what he is asking of them and play our most talented players. Especially because it's not like all the others are doing miles better than him, if Lingard and Mikhitaryan would be banging them in on a regular basis and create chances left right and center I would somewhat understand Martial being frozen out but the way the team is playing I see no reason why not to trust your more talented players even if they are a bit behind at the moment.

 

[E-mal]

I haven't fallen in love with the way Jose lines his team up but I'm not going to slate him into the ground as his way has won us trophies thus far. He knows how to play attacking football, he hasn't won what he has in his career being solely negative when choosing his tactics.


What I saw was a gassed Carvajal, Rashford came in as Lingard wasn't having his best game and Rashford directly runs at his full back at great pace, which we needed as we were losing.

Yes, Jose has a hidden agenda towards Martial whom he played 42 times last season. The same Jose who last season openly acknowledged the talent that Martial possesses but needed to give him a little bit more. Even Jose said Martial is needed and he needs a great squad, not just a great team. Here is a link if you'd like to read.
http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/man-...al-exit-amid-inter/1qarnm5h3o2au1j0agbc076vql

Great attacking players putting a shift in shouldnt be the primary reason why they should get into the team; this only confirms that the manager doesnt trust or appreciate the attacking threat Martial brings to the team to overlook the defensive noncontribution ( which I also disagree).
"Dont tell me how much you love(rate) me, show me that you love(rate) me"
Is not about saying you rate someone, you have to show it that you rate them.
Every man and his dog knows that he is more talented/useful than the likes of rashford, lingard and fellaini ( heck even mickhi) but he had the least minute and starts of them all.
The treatment he has recieved from Jose is unfair and that is why most posters are offended. Give the young man a fair chance and give him a fighting chance.

If it where Martial that spunned Rashford's chance we wouldnt hear the end of it on how weak his mentality is, that he is fragile and all.
He might start the next game but if he doesnt play to Messi's or Neymar standard he will return to the bench, that is not a fair treatment.

 

[Santoryo]

What's quite ironic is that Martial actually does put a shift in even under Van Gaal he did that. We're all acting as if Martial completely refuses to take any defensive duty and just sit forward waiting for the play to come to him and not involve himself defensively.

 

[SteveW]

I understand the reasons why he doesn't play but I can't say I agree with them. Give him the chances Lingard gets and he'll nail down the position. Jose's blind spot.

 

[RedDevil@84]

2016/17 season stats by appearances and starts:

Martial - 29 apps: 16 starts, 13 subs
Lingard - 28 apps: 14 starts, 14 subs
Mata - 34 apps: 25 starts, 9 subs
Miki - 30 apps: 19 starts, 11 subs
Zlatan - 41 apps: 36 starts, 5 subs
Rooney - 26 apps: 12 starts, 14 subs
Fellaini - 29 apps: 11 starts, 18 subs


Jose doesn't particularly seem to hate Martial as some think.

 

[itso 7]

What's quite ironic is that Martial actually does put a shift in even under Van Gaal he did that. We're all acting as if Martial completely refuses to take any defensive duty and just sit forward waiting for the play to come to him and not involve himself defensively.

People do not watch games or they are too ready to accept what the manager tells them without critical analysis. The silly criticisms you hear of Martial's game weren't being touted before Mourinho took charge and voiced them. Same with what Van Gaal was saying over Herrera.

 

[Damien]

2016/17 season stats by appearances and starts:

Martial - 29 apps: 16 starts, 13 subs
Lingard - 28 apps: 14 starts, 14 subs
Mata - 34 apps: 25 starts, 9 subs
Miki - 30 apps: 19 starts, 11 subs
Zlatan - 41 apps: 36 starts, 5 subs
Rooney - 26 apps: 12 starts, 14 subs
Fellaini - 29 apps: 11 starts, 18 subs


Jose doesn't particularly seem to hate Martial as some think.

You've forgotten Rashford.

Preseason stats (not including the Super Cup)

Spoiler

He had 1 start on the tour. The only players with equal or fewer starts were: Matic (signed before the last game), Joel Pereira, McTominay, Tuanzebe, Mitchell. That his starts were similar to youth players suggests Mourinho simply doesn't rate him that highly despite having a good output on tour.

 

[Santoryo]

People do not watch games or they are too ready to accept what the manager tells them without critical analysis. The silly criticisms you hear of Martial's game weren't being touted before Mourinho took charge and voiced them. Same with what Van Gaal was saying over Herrera.

Pretty much

 

[Andycoleno9]

I never question managers choices. They know the best. I didn't question selection of cleverley, cruyf, bebe, darmian, fellaini.... but this martial/lingard thing i can't understand.
Martial is a player who makes a difference. Lingard is a player who can't do nothing by himself. Even stoke or palace have front 3 whos main job is only attack. So why is so important to have defensive winger instead pure attacker who makes difference? It is something that is killing me.
Maybe i am negative here but i don't see future for martial in united. He is behind rashford, miki, lingard and if we buy perisic he is fecked.

 

[Dobbs]

2016/17 season stats by appearances and starts:

Martial - 29 apps: 16 starts, 13 subs
Lingard - 28 apps: 14 starts, 14 subs
Mata - 34 apps: 25 starts, 9 subs
Miki - 30 apps: 19 starts, 11 subs
Zlatan - 41 apps: 36 starts, 5 subs
Rooney - 26 apps: 12 starts, 14 subs
Fellaini - 29 apps: 11 starts, 18 subs


Jose doesn't particularly seem to hate Martial as some think.

When you compare the starts to their respective ability levels it's a different matter.

So for example what if De Gea was getting the same appearance stats as Lingard and Fellaini? Wouldn't that say something about Mourinho's opinion on him?

 

[OldTrevil]

There's clearly an issue with Jose's management of Martial, no point denying it. Last night he could have easily brought him in for Miki, I felt the game was dying for something special around 70 mins or so. Looking at the bright side Mourinho likely wants Martial to come in desperate with a world class and MOM performance and make himself undroppable as he believes he is capable of such quality. Jose doesnt know and want any other way of dealing with such talents, and to be fair he admitted it in that interview with Rio. Sad to say but it looks less and less likely that Martial will realize his talents at United with Mourinho, I'll be happy to be wrong on this.

 

[FromTheBench]

Martial isn't great at tracking back but in the 2nd half Mkhi seemed gassed and was barely tracking back with Marcelo anyway.

Martial should now start.vs West Ham for me.

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

You prefer Lingard ... OK

I probably would pick Lindgard over Martial at left wingback... but that isn't necessary to your straw-man argument.

Really quite taken aback at how many posters would seemingly keep Martial in the team at the expense of having Mourinho on the bench. Good a player as he could become, the mind boggles.

 

[Frank Grimes]

I'd be tempted to offer Martial to Arsenal in a swap with Sanchez, at least we'd have a world class talent lining up for us rather than a player rotting on the bench.

 

[luke511]

If Martial had've ripped last season up like he did his first, there's a good chance Barca would be after him at the moment instead of Dembele..

 

[Tempest]

2016/17 season stats by appearances and starts:

Martial - 29 apps: 16 starts, 13 subs
Lingard - 28 apps: 14 starts, 14 subs
Mata - 34 apps: 25 starts, 9 subs
Miki - 30 apps: 19 starts, 11 subs
Zlatan - 41 apps: 36 starts, 5 subs
Rooney - 26 apps: 12 starts, 14 subs
Fellaini - 29 apps: 11 starts, 18 subs


Jose doesn't particularly seem to hate Martial as some think.

The fact that he has barely started more games than Lingard, Fellaini and Rooney is absolutely ridiculous. It makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[DanNistelrooy]

Think the West Ham game could be perfect for him to start. Up against Zabaleta who seems completely past it based on the last couple of seasons. Rashford to come on in 2nd half as impact sub

 

[RedDevil@84]

The fact that he has barely started more games than Lingard, Fellaini and Rooney is absolutely ridiculous. It makes no sense whatsoever.

He was not really in good form last season. His shirt no swap followed by his personal problems etc seemed to have disturbed him a lot.

 

[Adnan]

I think he has a lot of potential, but I think his issues with not starting many games could be due to how he performs in training.

 

[Adisa]

I think he has a lot of potential, but I think his issues with not starting many games could be due to how he performs in training.

Mourinho has alluded to this a number of times.
Been praising his work rate in training since the end of last season.

 

[Jacky Quacky]

He better start cause hes been one of our best players in pre season and if its Lingard instead of him then god help us.

 

[Adnan]

Mourinho has alluded to this a number of times.
Been praising his work rate in training since the end of last season.

I'm talking about the tactical training, in preparation for a game.

 

[AlecHDR]

I think he will start more in a 4-3-3 than he did with 4-2-3-1, especially if our left back is Darmian/Rojo/Blind.

 

[shield]

I probably would pick Lindgard over Martial at left wingback... but that isn't necessary to your straw-man argument.

Really quite taken aback at how many posters would seemingly keep Martial in the team at the expense of having Mourinho on the bench. Good a player as he could become, the mind boggles.

Don't know what you point is. Lingard did not even play that well. All I am saying is that that was a semi important game. So, why not just see how Martial will perform. He is playing well at the moment. So, the logical thing is to give is him more opportunities. If he wants Martial to be in the team he will have to trust him with whatever formation he is playing.

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

Don't know what you point is. Lingard did not even play that well. All I am saying is that that was a semi important game. So, why not just see how Martial will perform. He is playing well at the moment. So, the logical thing is to give is him more opportunities. If he wants Martial to be in the team he will have to trust him with whatever formation he is playing.

You're right, we should just play Martial even if he's totally out of position... just so long as he's on the pitch. That's the way to motivate him & push him to get the most from his talent. Nothing better than tracking back to his own penalty area constantly to give him confidence... y'know, the stuff he's good at. Oh yeah, and lets start with the best club side in the world shall we?

Jeez, I like Martial as a player, I think he's one of our greatest forward threats, & I enjoy watching him, especially when he gets his confidence up... but this whole Martial vs Lindgard narrative has got to stop, it's ridiculous. Also, you say he's performing well, but a couple of moments of magic in preseason aside... he's been fine. I'd still like to see him start up front with Lukaku tomorrow, with Mkhitaryan behind.

............ Damian ............................ Martial ...........
.......... Jones ......... Pogba..........................
De Gea ......... Matic ....Mkhitaryan ... Lukaku
.......... Bailly ......... Herrera .......................
.................. Valencia ................................

 

[XdanielredX]

Hope he gets more of a chance to shine this season.

If he can get near what he was like in his first season then he can go on to be a great great player for us.

I really hope he does.

 

[rtr]

I'd rather have Martial on the pitch, but Lingard looks like he follows a given tactic better. That might be the point of significant difference between them. From what I see, he maintains possession quite well too.

He gets called a "nothing player", who "adds nothing". Maybe that's the point, though. Maybe he's just there to maintain the game for players like Pogba to do more.

 

[Hawks2008]

League Goals and Assists last season:

Martial: 10, Rashford + Lingard: 9

"Poor season" vs "Hardworking Players".

 

[Santoryo]

League Goals and Assists last season:

Martial: 10, Rashford + Lingard: 9

"Poor season" vs "Hardworking Players".

Yet Martial got slated for having a poor season last year(which by his standard is actually quite poor, though Mourinho mismanagement didn't help matters) while Rashford has turned into the golden boy and some are raving about his so called consistency.

When you bring all those numbers up, you get people going on about intangible like running a lot, working hard etc. I mean since when should we care about attacking players who seemingly run a lot over those with far superior abilities and end products?

Those numbers say it all, people have been brainwashed and listened to too much Mourinho even his bollocks and excuses. A player that has contributed more than his 2 direct competitors combined get questioned while his peers are applauded for some supposedly important hardwork and running.

Who would have thought a few years back that ATTACKING players contributing far less than other in goals and assists would be vehemently defended and preferred by Caftards. Talk about eating Mourinho nonsenses of preferring his grafters over genuine talents.

And that last line pretty much sums up what's what. No matter how much one want to spin it, genuine talent are more beneficial to the cause of winning things.

For all the praise hardworking players have received and defending and for all the criticisms "lazy" Martial got, he still produced(in a poor season by his standard)more than mister hardworkers(who got rave compliments for their dedications and runnings)combined. The proof is right there in numbers. Though people(some) will ignore it.

 

[Hawks2008]

Yet Martial got slated for having a poor season last year(which by his standard is actually quite poor, though Mourinho mismanagement didn't help matters) while Rashford has turned into the golden boy and some are raving about his so called consistency.

When you bring all those numbers up, you get people going on about intangible like running a lot, working hard etc. I mean since when should we care about attacking players who seemingly run a lot over those with far superior abilities and end products?

Those numbers say it all, people have been brainwashed and listened to too much Mourinho even his bollocks and excuses. A player that has contributed more than his 2 direct competitors combined get questioned while his peers are applauded for some supposedly important hardwork and running.

Who would have thought a few years back that ATTACKING players contributing far less than other in goals and assists would be vehemently defended and preferred by Caftards. Talk about eating Mourinho nonsenses of preferring his grafters over genuine talents.

And that last line pretty much sums up what's what. No matter how much one want to spin it, genuine talent are more beneficial to the cause of winning things.

For all the praise hardworking players have received and defending and for all the criticisms "lazy" Martial got, he still produced(in a poor season by his standard)more than mister hardworkers(who got rave compliments for their dedications and runnings)combined. The proof is right there in numbers. Though people(some) will ignore it.

Honestly I'm not sure it has much to do with "listening to Mourinho too much" as much as it does with Lingard and Rashford being English and from the academy. Those 2 could purposefully score own goals every game and this site would still be wanking themselves silly over how local they are.

 

[E-mal]

League Goals and Assists last season:

Martial: 10, Rashford + Lingard: 9

"Poor season" vs "Hardworking Players".

Quite telling, but no stats are not all in football blah blah
I just think he is just been a cnut to the boy, nothing more.

 

[Santoryo]

Quite telling, but no stats are not all in football blah blah
I just think he is just been a cnut to the boy, nothing more.

I've also reached the point where I believe he's just being a giant douche to Martial.

He goes and whine about lack of goals from his wide players and how everywhere else he had them, then goes ahead and play players with mediocre to non existent end product while the one with an abundance of that(as proven in his debut season and even in his poor season he managed more than ANY of our attacking pkayers beside Ibra).

I mean how does one whine about lacking goals and assists from his attacking players while he purposely ignore his second most productive attacker in favortex of those who hardly put up numbers.

Does Mourinho just loves talking for the sake of talking?

 

[shield]

You're right, we should just play Martial even if he's totally out of position... just so long as he's on the pitch. That's the way to motivate him & push him to get the most from his talent. Nothing better than tracking back to his own penalty area constantly to give him confidence... y'know, the stuff he's good at. Oh yeah, and lets start with the best club side in the world shall we?

Jeez, I like Martial as a player, I think he's one of our greatest forward threats, & I enjoy watching him, especially when he gets his confidence up... but this whole Martial vs Lindgard narrative has got to stop, it's ridiculous. Also, you say he's performing well, but a couple of moments of magic in preseason aside... he's been fine. I'd still like to see him start up front with Lukaku tomorrow, with Mkhitaryan behind.

............ Damian ............................ Martial ...........
.......... Jones ......... Pogba..........................
De Gea ......... Matic ....Mkhitaryan ... Lukaku
.......... Bailly ......... Herrera .......................
.................. Valencia ................................

It was a preseason match. You can try out a few things. It does not matter if it is the best team in the world. We did end up losing it but in the larger scheme of things, we had a lot of positives. We stand to benefit if we can get the best out of Martial.

Also, managers change formations regularly during matches. The players are supposed to adjust. Lingard is not particularly suited to any formation. If Mourinho wants a player to track back then his wingers will have to do it. I would have liked to see how Martial performed in the formation used that day. You are assuming that he would have been rubbish.

I would rather Martial learnt to improve his game so that he can do what Mourinho wants from him. The drop in quality from Martial to Lingard is substantial.

Also, Martial is playing well. You choose to ignore it. What do you mean by "a couple of moments"? If you do that then all good performances can be summed up as "nothing special but a couple of moments".

Anyway, hope he gets to starts today. Let's see how it goes.

 

[CaptainBirdseye]

............ Damian ............................ Martial ...........
.......... Jones ......... Pogba..........................
De Gea ......... Matic ....Mkhitaryan ... Lukaku
.......... Bailly ......... Herrera .......................
.................. Valencia ................................

Anyone else get severely alarmed and thought they saw Valencia in goal and De Gea at wingback.

And Darmian up front with Martial too.

Then I realised

 

[The red panther]

Anyone else get severely alarmed and thought they saw Valencia in goal and De Gea at wingback.

And Darmian up front with Martial too.

Then I realised

Yup

 

[KM]

Goal and Assist. That's some statement.

 

[shamans]

Just don't understand how he isn't a CF. His finishing and runs are wasted as a wide man.

 

[Bubz27]

Loved Pogba going to him as well.

 

[TsuWave]

a goal and an assist

 

[DWelbz19]

My man.