Is that what you need to understand elite coaching these days? A pair of eyes?
Super. Those badges are bloody expensive anyway.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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Super. Those badges are bloody expensive anyway.
You don't have any either but that doesn't stop you plastering your opinions on the caf. Guessing you also disagreed with Ralf's assessment despite having none yourself.
Some of the responses to these short coaching videos is truly alarming.
ETH has only been coaching these players for a wee bit over a week and yet some fans expect us to look like prime Barcelona.
It's true, the players do look slow and sluggish doing the drills, but that's more of an indictment of the previous management/coaching regimes, than it is a criticism about Ten Hag's coaching methods.
These players simply haven't been coached properly for the past 3+ years. It's glaringly obvious.
Do you all remember the classroom when the teacher was either late or just ducking out for a period? It was anarchy. It was akin to "Lord of the Flies". This is how I've seen our club since SAF left.
Personally, I'm loving seeing these little coaching clips. It's early days but it's nice to see the process.
I just hope for is that the Glazers back him 100%
ETH has only been coaching these players for a wee bit over a week and yet some fans expect us to look like prime Barcelona.
It's true, the players do look slow and sluggish doing the drills, but that's more of an indictment of the previous management/coaching regimes, than it is a criticism about Ten Hag's coaching methods.
These players simply haven't been coached properly for the past 3+ years. It's glaringly obvious.
Do you all remember the classroom when the teacher was either late or just ducking out for a period? It was anarchy. It was akin to "Lord of the Flies". This is how I've seen our club since SAF left.
Personally, I'm loving seeing these little coaching clips. It's early days but it's nice to see the process.
I just hope for is that the Glazers back him 100%
Flipping heck Utd made a huge mistake employing ETH. You were the man to get. Oh and you’re right, get rid of all the coaches too as it’s clearly a waste of time coaching a player.
crazy....those are preseason patterns of play that the players need. It's about getting touches, an idea what the gaffer wants but more importantly it's a great form of fitness as opposed to just running sprints or shuttles
Eth will get a lot of players where they need to be. But not all. Some just don’t have the ability needed. But he needs time to separate the wheat from the chaff and the best way is to train them and se their abilities first hand as he is doing now.
Nothing to do with ETH's capacity as a coach. I expect him to get his own players over time and phase out those that aren't compatible. Are you expecting him to turn Mctominay into Fernandinho? We could hire david blaine since you apparently think coaching is magic.
Harry Potter then?
Obviously there will be a weeding out process but he can't throw away everyone at once. Even Klopp had to work with Lovren and Moreno for a while.
I can get behind this. I'm sure @Chief123 will approve.
The training video should temper our expectations. I don't expect a top 4 finish this season. Just some decent football and players who are up for the challenge and giving their all as the new playing style and coaching gets embedded into the team. The season after next is when we should be gunning for a title and a top 3 finish.
Thats literally all this is and everyone is freaking out. Our first 15 will hopefully be knocking the ball around a lot more smoothly after a few weeks hard graft and whatever extra recruitment we bring in to improve the team in possession. Going on last seasons evidence we can’t really get any worse anyway so that’s something that should make next season more enjoyable.
OMG you can‘t expect players to execute a new drill after one week as well as players who have done it for many years.
Seriously. And, don‘t ever compare Ten Hag to Guardiola with his fecking sweaters again.
Seriously. And, don‘t ever compare Ten Hag to Guardiola with his fecking sweaters again.
The full video is on the official Man Utd website. In it, EtH calls out Bruno by name for simply using his left foot instead of his right foot. The "mistakes" he mentions are related to the rules of this specific drill. It's not about the lack of technique in the players.
If a person has never juggled before, they can't be expected to become an expert on day 1. Remembering right from left and getting perfect timing takes practice. This drill is no different.
The video shows the players being asked to play against their instincts. So of course they'll struggle to hit the right rhythm. But when they eventually find that rhythm - and they will - they'll be just as fast as Ajax.
Uncle Heisenberg
we really dont know if they’re not up to a standard needed. The standard was different last year 3years ago and 5years ago.
LVG tried to implement a weird slow tempo passing game - wasnt really ticky tacka perhaps just something close to it that lacked directness.
Jose came in and said screw this you gonna counter like maniacs 3 passes should be enough to get the ball in the opposition area, you sit further back and you need to be direct.
Ole was more of a ‘come on lads’ kind of guy that looked tactically poor against bad teams but could set the team up to counter well when playing against big teams that left space in behind.
in general terms in the past 4-5 years we had little tactical consistency as a club and really opposing philosophies. Overlapping wing backs high pressure high tempo and short quick passing is something we never saw. LVG perhaps was the closest to this concept, and that is because he was trying to set the team out to do alot of passing.
mcsauce/fred might actually be able to be deployed in this style (we assume we are adopting) that kind of builds on the unit rather than the individual. If u ask them to keep it simple, look for the more creative players and pass quickly whilst his team mates are supporting and moving in cohesion into channels we might get somewhere.
basically yah mcause wont become KDB but I’m trying to say there was no standard in recent times or we just kept moving the goalposts.
Isn't that what we want going forward? A certain profile of player for continuations sake?
This period would be the most challenging most of this players has been through, with this high tempo technical drills its the mind that is most challenged, for a player who is use to taking multiple touch or attempting to play a virtuoso role this would feel like calculus but with time if they really want to can improve.
I think we have players who will enjoy this though, Sancho, Vdb, Martial would come into their own under ETH.
For the extreme cases like Mctominay and Awb wow I would pay to watch them train.
I think we have players who will enjoy this though, Sancho, Vdb, Martial would come into their own under ETH.
For the extreme cases like Mctominay and Awb wow I would pay to watch them train.
It only works when you're a Dutch. Otherwise it would look like you're trying to pick up a fight. Similar to Roy Keane's "huh huh huh?".
Fixed
Oh but people can.
By Christmas this drill, with the same players, will look a million times better, because that’s how repetition with training drills work.
One video after a few days of training? Right…
our previous coaches have done them dirty. If they had went through similar drills for the past 3 years they would probably be a bit more competentFrom the start, he will be challenged as a coach and a leader. He can't really depend on the captain. I hope Erik would come through for us.
With the number of false dawns we’ve had over the last few seasons, yes, one video is all it takes.
I'm the one who coaches!
A good indicator of improvement on this exercise would be Edson Alvarez, wasn't good at the ball and thus benched. Ten Hag and his staff worked very hard with him on his ball control and technique and after a month of 3 he was decent enough at it to get back in the starting XI again. Problem is that it was only 1 player. Having 5+ players needed to learn this before becoming effective in a Ten Hag team is a slightly bigger problem
Also it was day 1 of preseason for a lot of these players.
Yeah its not that they've been training for a week with ETH.
Oh wait.
Give it time before making conclusions.
I dont think our players have poor technique apart from a few. As you say though actually practicising this type of technique should see quick improvements.
I doubt our training over the last few years has been this dedicated to pass and move.
These players have also just come back from vacations. They'll be rusty, and quite possibly a little bit out of shape too.
In any case, what matters is how much of this shows up on the pitch.
Indeed. Our plan is (or at least should be) to stick with the same profile of manager for the long term, so assembling a squad that suits ETH should also suit his successor. Obviously no two managers are completely identical and all will have their own preferences, but the days of doing 180 about turns from LVG to Mourinho and ditching half the squad should be over.
LVG wasn't a slow tempo passing game. Unlike Rinus and Johan Cryuff's version of total football, LVG focused more on intelligent and precise decision making which results in complete control of the ball during possession. Basically he has 2 approaches :
1) On the ball - the player's pass should forward progression in the attacking third and if the forward options are not good, he has to take control by either holding possession, dribbling or to pass it back to a player with more freedom.
2) Off the ball - During attack, players should position themselves in areas where they can receive the ball and evade opponents to continue the play. During defence, players should identify positions where the opposition is likely to attack and move there to stop the opponent's attack.
As some of the players lacked the capability to make intelligent runs or passes, it ended up into a borefest where the player tried to take the safe option of always passing to the players next to them or behind them, so that possession is not risked. That is where the slow tempo passing game came from.
As for Jose, he focused more on the tactics and formation while leaving the training portion to the respective coaches. Ole used a similar approach except that he had stronger focus on using tactics/formations where the entire team was compact. I would say that the 20/21 team had shown the best standards so far, with the team's attacking movement and passing producing wonderful moments (6-2 vs Roma, 9-0 vs Southampton, 6-2 vs Leeds etc). Shame that fitness and mentality issues destroyed the team last season.
Like you have mentioned, some of the players will not improve in terms of the expected movement. Ultimately, the team's performances will be reliant on ETH's tactical nous as he will need to have different set of formations which can adapt the current attributes of the players.
Inappropriate Behavior
Your stupidity suggested there was no point coaching any of the players as they weren’t good enough. So this group of players didn’t play much better the 2 seasons before and didn’t finish 2nd in the league previously?
Oh but the players are so bad even coaching won’t help, so we might as well not bother.
He won’t need to throw away everyone at all. Lots of them will improve with practice; there’s a chance that some will get really good.
Some are bound to need weeding out. It’ll be very interesting to see who makes it and who doesn’t, and how fans respond in the event that players currently not rated are the ones to do well.
There is no need to worry about how the players perform in training. As some have rightly pointed out, it is their first time doing such drills which will take time for them to adapt.
There are actually a few stages to this development, where the pre season matches are the next stage to understand mistakes made by the players, which is followed by modification of the training regime to bring these players up to speed. In parallel, the first team manager and coaches will be studying the players attributes and movement to determine the best formations for accommodating this players. One good thing about ETH's training regime is that it will determine the player's capability to make quick decisions on the balls. This way, he will know how to position the players in his formations so that mistakes are minimized.
There are actually a few stages to this development, where the pre season matches are the next stage to understand mistakes made by the players, which is followed by modification of the training regime to bring these players up to speed. In parallel, the first team manager and coaches will be studying the players attributes and movement to determine the best formations for accommodating this players. One good thing about ETH's training regime is that it will determine the player's capability to make quick decisions on the balls. This way, he will know how to position the players in his formations so that mistakes are minimized.
The latter is the bit that absolutely fascinates. There’s a few players that I suspect will look really good in a Ten Hag system given a bit of time, and already seeing them written off is fun. Of course those people may be right, but how many will hold their hands up if they’re not?
It’s going to be a very interesting (and not all good, let’s be honest) season while we see who can adapt.
Gosh. I did think the OP was unnecessarily negative, but I didn’t get that from what he said at all.
Do you believe that all the players are capable of improvement, or that they will all improve at the same rate? I’m confident that lots will, but it’ll take time and some will struggle. Some might even kick off because they can’t handle it. If so they will be moved on I’m sure.
Good post. Its a new drill imposed on a group which has not been coached since LVG.
Just spare a thought that a year ago Ole could have been in his office making calls or pretending to do what SAF would while Carrick and Mckenna were coaching the first team.
If anything it's good that the drill looked so clunky, so when it finally does start looking right on the pitch there can be no doubt that EtH is a great coach. Time and patience is what EtH, his coaches and the players (yes them too) need. Things might be rough at first but in the second half of the season we will probably look much better, having had months of coaching from a team and individual level.
If anything it's good that the drill looked so clunky, so when it finally does start looking right on the pitch there can be no doubt that EtH is a great coach. Time and patience is what EtH, his coaches and the players (yes them too) need. Things might be rough at first but in the second half of the season we will probably look much better, having had months of coaching from a team and individual level.