F1 2020 Season

[Adam-Utd]

Its called the B pillar rule (obviously metaphroic in F1) but essentialy when over half of a vehicle is ahead of the vehicle behind, the corner is then deemed to be the car in the leads corner and the car behind is responsible for conceeding position in order for both vehicles to safely run. Irrespective of whether Lewis's steering wheel did not show any change of direction, he carried speed through the corner which caused the front to understeer into the rear of Albon's Redbull. It was an avoidable collision caused by Hamilton (Albon is unaware of how much room he has by obvious fact of being alot further along) and Hamilton is lucky he only got a 5 second penalty considerng the impact it had on Albon. Considering the bullshit last year with Vettel at Canada and both vehicles safely continued, he got off very very lightly.

Personally, these situations should be a 30 second penalty not 5.

You're talking bollocks, Albon was already past Lewis, how else do you think the front of Lewis car hit Albon's car in the middle?

Lewis should be the one avoiding contact by reducing his speed on that scenario according to the rulebooks.

It's not the first time he's been penalised for thinking the rules don't apply to him. He just gets away with it because his Mercedes is usually way ahead of everybody else which means he barely gets into this kind of scenario.

Sorry boys, both wrong here.

First of all the corner is a tight slow right hander, you hug the apex tight then accelerate OUTWARDS towards the kerb. That is the racing line.

Albon tried to be cheeky and purposely brake late to go around the outside, but this means he ended up slowing down right on the exit of the corner. Overtaking on the outside of corners is always risky as you can pretty much guarantee the car inside you will naturally push outwards.

Albon obviously hoped/expected that Lewis would give up and not hold his line and let him passed, but clearly he was never going to do that.

From the onboard footage Hamilton is holding his wheel on complete right hand lock and never once lets off to purpose hit into Albon.

Yes it was unlucky but the exit of that corner is very tight and barely has room for 2 cars, let alone to race wheel to wheel at that point.

IF the footage showed Hamilton purposely ran wider to hit him i'd say yes clear penalty, but he didn't. For me this is a clear racing incident and no pen should have been given.

 

[Buster15]

You're talking bollocks, Albon was already past Lewis, how else do you think the front of Lewis car hit Albon's car in the middle?

Lewis should be the one avoiding contact by reducing his speed on that scenario according to the rulebooks.

It's not the first time he's been penalised for thinking the rules don't apply to him. He just gets away with it because his Mercedes is usually way ahead of everybody else which means he barely gets into this kind of scenario.

There is only one person talking bollocks and it is not me.
Good bye.

 

[F-Red]

This is the F1 thread, Lewis is in F1, he's already came out and said that he's made the point to drivers and that he thinks a few of them don't understand the issues of racism. I would not at all be surprised if he was miffed at drivers not showing solidarity with the knee gesture. It's perfectly relevant thanks.

Of course it's relevant. The guy was quite vocal on the matter, obviously will be on his mind, and then all these events happen as well during the race.

If we're having a conversation about Lewis and today's race in an F1 thread it could be raised as a reason behind him being frustrated and angry. Just mentioning the kneeling thing doesn't mean the thread will go off the rail and turn into a BLM.

So now the dust has settled, he wasn't miffed at all with anyone not taking a knee. It had no bearing or relevance.

https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/06/hamilton-i-never-requested-or-demanded-anyone-to-take-a-knee/

Doesn’t change anything. Hamilton had better pace than Bottas all day. All he needed was 0.2 seconds over two laps.

Well in the last lap, they didn't really see McLaren turning the dials to 11 and had nothing to counter with it unless they wanted to force reliability. Them holding position was more important than risking losing the race win. Bottas' car was in a poorer state than Hamilton's.

Well if Albon was already past him (which he was not) how could Hamilton have hit him.

Albon was taking the risk by passing on the outside of turn 4 and as the video shows, Hamilton steering wheel did not show any change of direction. He was steering to the right.

Albon was past Hamilton at the point of contact.

 

[F-Red]

From the onboard footage Hamilton is holding his wheel on complete right hand lock and never once lets off to purpose hit into Albon.

He's not on complete right hand lock. Watch in car footage from Monaco to see what complete lock looks like on an F1 car.

 

[F-Red]

Rumours that Renault will make their driver announcement this week, internally Abiteboul is telling senior mechanics that its someone they worked with 10-15 years ago. Only leaves Alonso or Grosjean as the likely candidates.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Watching the Albon incident again, a few times and I have changed my mind, his fault correct penalty, Albon was ahead, Lewis should have left him past.
One the subject of Lewis, he is becoming very unlikeable, fantastic driver, second to Senna for me, but as a person, he is a complete cockwomble.

 

[Adam-Utd]

He's not on complete right hand lock. Watch in car footage from Monaco to see what complete lock looks like on an F1 car.

Albon was past Hamilton at the point of contact.

Yes, he's at maximum lock for the corner. Any more lock and he goes round in circles.

This point is also redundant as Albon is only ahead because he braked late. Anybody can just not brake for a corner and then slow down at the exit of a corner to block somebody if they really want, but that's how accidents happen. The "he is ahead" rule is only really for if somebody is attacking a car ahead of them. If Hamilton was trying to overtake Albon in that situation then yes it would be correct.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

I always think that general disagreement on the cause of contact whilst racing is conclusive proof that it was a racing incident. A shame that it ruined Albon's race.

 

[F-Red]

Yes, he's at maximum lock for the corner. Any more lock and he goes round in circles.

This point is also redundant as Albon is only ahead because he braked late. Anybody can just not brake for a corner and then slow down at the exit of a corner to block somebody if they really want, but that's how accidents happen. The "he is ahead" rule is only really for if somebody is attacking a car ahead of them. If Hamilton was trying to overtake Albon in that situation then yes it would be correct.

He had plenty more room for turning, he was tactically hanging Albon out to dry in the corner which was his intention as he releases the wheel to drift to the racing line on the outside of the corner. Look at any attack at Hamilton and he employs the same tactic over the years, it's his defence style. The Rosberg battle in Bahrain is a great example if you want a reference point.

Albon was ahead in the mid-exit stages of the corner, not because he braked late. They were side by side as they went into the apex. The stewards detail this in their report, plus they've got the Albon onboard which no one has seen yet.

 

[Leg-End]

You can't forget too that Albon was on new softs and Hamilton on old Hard's, Albon carried more speed around the corner despite being on the outside line because of this. Hamilton's defence works 9 times out of 10, Albon did the exact same thing to him on Lap 1. Personally I think its a racing incident the more I see it, sometimes coming together's just happen with all the variable involved in a race, if Hamilton deviated his line or steering angle I would say otherwise but he didn't.

Just crap for Albon because hes deserved a podium by now. Hamilton won't get hung up on that decision either, he should be more hung up on his teams strategy issues.

 

[Rado_N]

Watching the Albon incident again, a few times and I have changed my mind, his fault correct penalty, Albon was ahead, Lewis should have left him past.
One the subject of Lewis, he is becoming very unlikeable, fantastic driver, second to Senna for me, but as a person, he is a complete cockwomble.

I knew you'd see it eventually

 

[pacifictheme]

You can't forget too that Albon was on new softs and Hamilton on old Hard's, Albon carried more speed around the corner despite being on the outside line because of this. Hamilton's defence works 9 times out of 10, Albon did the exact same thing to him on Lap 1. Personally I think its a racing incident the more I see it, sometimes coming together's just happen with all the variable involved in a race, if Hamilton deviated his line or steering angle I would say otherwise but he didn't.

Just crap for Albon because hes deserved a podium by now. Hamilton won't get hung up on that decision either, he should be more hung up on his teams strategy issues.

I feel this way as well really. There was more room for albon on the outside and he overtook late into the corner, not a lot Lewis can do unless he gives the place up far earlier.

 

[muller]

Albon was already past him, you don't hit people when they overtake you just because you fecked up.

It was a racing incident. He didn’t steer into him, he wasn’t able to turn any further away.

 

[Adam-Utd]

He had plenty more room for turning, he was tactically hanging Albon out to dry in the corner which was his intention as he releases the wheel to drift to the racing line on the outside of the corner. Look at any attack at Hamilton and he employs the same tactic over the years, it's his defence style. The Rosberg battle in Bahrain is a great example if you want a reference point.

Albon was ahead in the mid-exit stages of the corner, not because he braked late. They were side by side as they went into the apex. The stewards detail this in their report, plus they've got the Albon onboard which no one has seen yet.

Absolute rubbish.

Watch the on board footage, Hamiltons hand is consistently in the same place on corner entry and exit. Not once does he let the wheel move to the left to hit Albon.

What you're seeing is the car following the track naturally out to the kerb which is the racing line. Albon is attacking hamilton on fresh tyres and gambling he can make it round the outside without getting touched.

If anybody has more room it's actually albon. Look how much more kerb he can use, instead he tries to squeeze as tight to hamilton as possible.

I can see why the people who aren't used to racing can see this as Hamilton's fault, but anybody who has raced themselves knows this is nothing more than a racing incident.

I am shocked the stewards came to this decision personally.

 

[F-Red]

I can see why the people who aren't used to racing can see this as Hamilton's fault, but anybody who has raced themselves knows this is nothing more than a racing incident.

Let's hear your credentials then...

 

[Adam-Utd]

Let's hear your credentials then...

I've done lots of amateur racing including plenty of seasons in Karts, but that's not something that'll mean anything to you.

Anyway, answer the original question. With the video footage are you still suggesting Hamilton turned into him on purpose? or do you accept that it's just something that can happen in racing and nobody was at fault.

 

[F-Red]

I've done lots of amateur racing including plenty of seasons in Karts, but that's not something that'll mean anything to you.

Genuinely I'm all ears...

Anyway, answer the original question. With the video footage are you still suggesting Hamilton turned into him on purpose? or do you accept that it's just something that can happen in racing and nobody was at fault.

I've never insinuated he turned into him, I said that Hamilton's natural defence mechanism in every year of F1 has been to push his opponents to the outer parts of the corners and hang them out to dry. Look at his duels with Rosberg in the past and you'll see what I mean. Surprising given the experience you have in racing. You also said he was on full lock, which factually he isn't, so its unknown entity as to whether he would spin out, however the relevancy of this isn't important.

If you look back at my comments, I've not actually attributed fault anywhere. I'm of the opinion that I can see why the penalty was given, hell even Hamilton has taken the penalty on the chin & moved on it from it (read his comments). We've got no onboard of Albon, and people were contesting Albon was not even alongside Hamilton, which I've argued isn't the case. From the video you've linked he's ahead of him even before they've got to the apex.

My original post, was that it was a stonewall penalty by the rulebook. FIA stewards lately are trying to remain consistent & if Brazil's penalty was 5 seconds, then arguably it could have been worse for Hamilton. However from the image below, and from the onboard footage of Hamilton, the stewards have deemed him not leaving enough room for the car that is ahead. Pretty difficult to argue from a stewards point of view.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Genuinely I'm all ears...



I've never insinuated he turned into him, I said that Hamilton's natural defence mechanism in every year of F1 has been to push his opponents to the outer parts of the corners and hang them out to dry. Look at his duels with Rosberg in the past and you'll see what I mean. Surprising given the experience you have in racing. You also said he was on full lock, which factually he isn't, so its unknown entity as to whether he would spin out, however the relevancy of this isn't important.

If you look back at my comments, I've not actually attributed fault anywhere. I'm of the opinion that I can see why the penalty was given, hell even Hamilton has taken the penalty on the chin & moved on it from it (read his comments). We've got no onboard of Albon, and people were contesting Albon was not even alongside Hamilton, which I've argued isn't the case. From the video you've linked he's ahead of him even before they've got to the apex.

My original post, was that it was a stonewall penalty by the rulebook. FIA stewards lately are trying to remain consistent & if Brazil's penalty was 5 seconds, then arguably it could have been worse for Hamilton. However from the image below, and from the onboard footage of Hamilton, the stewards have deemed him not leaving enough room for the car that is ahead. Pretty difficult to argue from a stewards point of view.

Well you're contradicting yourself here.

You said earlier that Hamilton is pushing himself out wide to "hang him out to dry", well this photo quite clearly shows they are nowhere near the edge of the track are they?

Albon has almost anoher car length of track to safely nip around the outside, but instead he closes the door himself too much thinking the move was already done.

Hamiltons car will take the natural path, you cannot go into a tight corner at 70mph+ and expect the tyres to grip, then ask them to turn even more. YOU WILL SPIN. if you try to apply brake when turning, YOU WILL SPIN. Just look what happened with Vettel and Sainz.

As I mentioned earlier, Hamilton was ahead of Albon going into the corner, he is taking the normal racing line. At this point there is no correction that can be made, you're on the edge of grip and even a slight correction could make you lose control especially when you start to accelerate. He had to continue this line (which will drift you out towards the kerb). I genuinely cannot see any way he can avoid this?

If Albon wasn't on brand new soft tyres he would never have tried this type of move. He was the one that parked himself on the outside of a car with worn tyres on a tight corner, then acts surprised that the car understeered into him?

The excuse of Albon being ahead is no help defence as he's the one making the overtake attempt. The car ahead was already committed to his line, as the driver behind you have to take into account where you are on the track and whether that move can be done with any potential risk.

Brundle himself immediately reacted "oh Alex be patient" as he knew he just sent it the first moment he got. If he just waited 1 more corner he would have easily done him down the straight with fresh tyre acceleration.

 

[RDCR07]

If the stewards have decided that Hamilton was in the wrong, which they did and hence the penalty, surely it should be worse than a 5 second penalty. Seems nothing when compared to the driver affected going from a podium to last place. Seems a very disproportionate result for the two drivers.

 

[Leg-End]

If the stewards have decided that Hamilton was in the wrong, which they did and hence the penalty, surely it should be worse than a 5 second penalty. Seems nothing when compared to the driver affected going from a podium to last place. Seems a very disproportionate result for the two drivers.

The severity of a penalty is based on how it happened, not how it affected the result. It does seem an injustice to lose your whole race but when it's not cut and dry 5 seconds is pretty standard.

 

[Rooney1987]

Just read that the Netflix crew from Drive to Survive focused on McLaren and Red Bull for the weekend just gone. That'll be a spicy episode.

 

[Redplane]

Just read that the Netflix crew from Drive to Survive focused on McLaren and Red Bull for the weekend just gone. That'll be a spicy episode.

Should be good indeed. I'm very curious how Max in particular will come across. He obviously used a lot of profanity over the comms when his engine blew and then we saw him go into hiding. In the post interview he sounded very mature though but also made it clear he hadn't sat down with the team yet to discuss what happened. Wonder if that means he went raging in the paddock or literally isolated himself to cool down. Guess we ll probably find out about that on the show.

 

[elmo]

Should be good indeed. I'm very curious how Max in particular will come across. He obviously used a lot of profanity over the comms when his engine blew and then we saw him go into hiding. In the post interview he sounded very mature though but also made it clear he hadn't sat down with the team yet to discuss what happened. Wonder if that means he went raging in the paddock or literally isolated himself to cool down. Guess we ll probably find out about that on the show.

The engine problem he had was a known issue apparently, so they're all probably aware it was going to happen sooner or later.

 

[Redplane]

The engine problem he had was a known issue apparently, so they're all probably aware it was going to happen sooner or later.

Ah hadn't heard of that yet. Guess that might explain his (to me) surprisingly calm demeanor with the press. Only thing he probably rues it happened to him and not Albon

 

[Buster15]

Well you're contradicting yourself here.

You said earlier that Hamilton is pushing himself out wide to "hang him out to dry", well this photo quite clearly shows they are nowhere near the edge of the track are they?

Albon has almost anoher car length of track to safely nip around the outside, but instead he closes the door himself too much thinking the move was already done.

Hamiltons car will take the natural path, you cannot go into a tight corner at 70mph+ and expect the tyres to grip, then ask them to turn even more. YOU WILL SPIN. if you try to apply brake when turning, YOU WILL SPIN. Just look what happened with Vettel and Sainz.

As I mentioned earlier, Hamilton was ahead of Albon going into the corner, he is taking the normal racing line. At this point there is no correction that can be made, you're on the edge of grip and even a slight correction could make you lose control especially when you start to accelerate. He had to continue this line (which will drift you out towards the kerb). I genuinely cannot see any way he can avoid this?

If Albon wasn't on brand new soft tyres he would never have tried this type of move. He was the one that parked himself on the outside of a car with worn tyres on a tight corner, then acts surprised that the car understeered into him?

The excuse of Albon being ahead is no help defence as he's the one making the overtake attempt. The car ahead was already committed to his line, as the driver behind you have to take into account where you are on the track and whether that move can be done with any potential risk.

Brundle himself immediately reacted "oh Alex be patient" as he knew he just sent it the first moment he got. If he just waited 1 more corner he would have easily done him down the straight with fresh tyre acceleration.

Easily the most sensible and correct assessment of the incident.
Like most, I have watched it a number of times.
And I cannot help thinking - what else could Lewis Hamilton have done to avoid contact.

If you look at his steering wheel, he was turning to the right and there was no change in his input.
There was at least a car width on the outside and contrary to what some are suggesting, there is no indication that Hamilton was trying to squeeze Albon to prevent him overtaking.

I am no expert. But it was perfectly clear to me that Albon was taking a risk and with his tyres, would have had the opportunity to a less risky overtake.

Anyway. Lewis has accepted the penalty with good grace and hopefully will win the next race.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Easily the most sensible and correct assessment of the incident.
Like most, I have watched it a number of times.
And I cannot help thinking - what else could Lewis Hamilton have done to avoid contact.

If you look at his steering wheel, he was turning to the right and there was no change in his input.
There was at least a car width on the outside and contrary to what some are suggesting, there is no indication that Hamilton was trying to squeeze Albon to prevent him overtaking.

I am no expert. But it was perfectly clear to me that Albon was taking a risk and with his tyres, would have had the opportunity to a less risky overtake.

Anyway. Lewis has accepted the penalty with good grace and hopefully will win the next race.

Thanks, it seems there’s 2 camps of opinions but I just cannot see it any other way. I’m actually very surprised how well Hamilton took the penalty, but I think it’s mainly because of it being Albon again and he genuinely feels bad for him.

It seems Hamilton has riled up a few people in the last 2 weeks!

I’m actually a mclaren fan so I’m delighted Norris got 3rd because of it, but I’m a racing fan first and there’s plenty of examples that are worse than this that gets penalised differently. seems like it’s even more inconsistent than football!

 

[Wicked_Badger]

I always think that general disagreement on the cause of contact whilst racing is conclusive proof that it was a racing incident. A shame that it ruined Albon's race.

This is the way I feel. I think it was a racing incident, not intentional. If they had banged wheels and both carried on, no one would talk about it.

The stewards judged the outcome of the move and not the actual incident itself.

Complete shame for Albon obviously. I feel he could’ve shown a little more patience & lines Hamilton up later in the lap. Hopefully he gets a bit more luck this weekend.

 

[elmo]

Ah hadn't heard of that yet. Guess that might explain his (to me) surprisingly calm demeanor with the press. Only thing he probably rues it happened to him and not Albon

I mean Albon's car had issues and retired as well. The Honda engine was basically a ticking timebomb over the weekend.

 

[arthurka]

I mean Albon's car had issues and retired as well. The Honda engine was basically a ticking timebomb over the weekend.

According to Red Bull both had electronic issues and non related.

 

[ChaddyP]

With the Albon /Hamilton incident i think it was a fair call. Just because Hamilton doesnt change his steering angle doesnt mean he isnt purposely turning the car left to squeeze out Albon for the corner. Hamilton is a great driver and i feel he knew what he was doing . Im no racing expert but even i know you can steer a car with the gas pedal. Hamilton already would know AA is beside him even a bit infront of him and would know going into the throttle early after missing his apex would cause the car to understeer out of the corner the way it did. There is no way he could have "given it more angle" to not understeer into him i agree thats not how cars work in that situation. But I feel going on to the throttle to squeeze Albon who Hamilton knows has better grip than he does was the only thing Hamilton could have possibly done to try and defend his position. Its not the worst thing he could have done and it was rather unfortunate how everthing panned out. But i feel he did have a higher part to play in the incident and thus got a penalty to match the crime. Im welcome to critique from those with more experience in driving than me as i just do a bit for fun. But for sure you can steer that car with just your feet

 

[ZIDANE]

Fernando Alonso to return to Formula 1 with Renault in 2021

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/53325412

Great news but I don't see Renault challenging. Seb doesn't really have an option either.

 

[Leg-End]

Fernando Alonso to return to Formula 1 with Renault in 2021

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/53325412

Great news but I don't see Renault challenging. Seb doesn't really have an option either.

It was inevitable but it's great news, F1 is better having him on the grid.

Seb is heading out of the sport at this rate and that's a shame.

 

[Hephaestus]

Fernando Alonso to return to Formula 1 with Renault in 2021

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/53325412

Great news but I don't see Renault challenging. Seb doesn't really have an option either.

Yeah, I can't see Renault becoming a frontrunner next year but the new regulations in 2022 might give the field a shakeup.

 

[F-Red]

Rumours that Renault will make their driver announcement this week, internally Abiteboul is telling senior mechanics that its someone they worked with 10-15 years ago. Only leaves Alonso or Grosjean as the likely candidates.

Interesting that Alonso is returning, he said would only come back if he had a title winning car underneath him.

 

[ZIDANE]

I'm surprised he didn't go back to McLaren given they will have the Mercedes engine. Maybe McLaren didn't want to pay a high salary or maybe he chose Renault using Ron Dennis logic (won't be able to beat Mercedes own team). After the performance difference this weekend I can't wait for 2022.....

 

[F-Red]

I'm surprised he didn't go back to McLaren given they will have the Mercedes engine.

They ruled him out of a 2021 seat earlier in the year.

 

[ZIDANE]

They ruled him out of a 2021 seat earlier in the year.

I'm thinking this must've been in discussion a while back when there were a lot of noises - Ferrari, McLaren, and possibly Renault obviously knew about the change following Seb not getting renewed.

Ferrari, Mercedes, and possibly Red Bull clearly ruled him out.

BBC: But Alonso is known to have been in talks with Renault since November last year, and in May this year his adviser, Flavio Briatore, said he was "motivated and ready to return to F1".

 

[F-Red]

I'm thinking this must've been in discussion a while back when there were a lot of noises - Ferrari, McLaren, and possibly Renault obviously knew about the change following Seb not getting renewed.

Zak Brown ruled Alonso out in February long before the Vettel news started the dominos.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...-one-mclaren-door-closed-comeback-motor-sport

 

[NM]

The UK poster's blind defense of Hamilton i quite interesting.. It could have gone either way, but for them to say he did nothing wrong (when he's accepted the penalty!) says a lot.

Another easy title coming though, and kudos to Hamilton for using his position to try and encourage the conversation around race.

 

[altodevil]

Vettel to Red Bull picking up steam. That or him dropping out early this season. Doubt the latter however.