F1 2020 Season

[Tiber]

Title challenging is a stretch, race winning is fairer (2009!). Still remarkable that he's won in every single season he's been in F1. We must also remember that at the time he was questioned for leaving a proven race winning team like McLaren, they have not won a race since he left. Mercedes were looking at the likes of Nick Heidfeld before signing Hamilton so it's not as if all the top drivers were banging their door down to get a seat there.

Perhps I'm misremembering his rookie season, I thought he pushed Alonso and Kimi for much of the year. Maybe that was a later year.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Perhps I'm misremembering his rookie season, I thought he pushed Alonso and Kimi for much of the year. Maybe that was a later year.

You're not. He was ahead of 2 time champion Alonso until it fell apart a little in the last few rounds, and Kimi ended up winnng. He ended up tying with Alonso on points - a hugely impressive feat for a rookie.

Anybody who thinks Hamilton just lucked into it really have no idea.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

Perhps I'm misremembering his rookie season, I thought he pushed Alonso and Kimi for much of the year. Maybe that was a later year.

2007 was the rookie year, he was leading the championship and lost it in the final round. Should have won it after his drive at Fuji. Definitely a championship winning car. Won it in 2008, the last driver to win a championship when his team did not win the constructors. 2009 was a big regulation change and McLaren ballsed it up with no double diffuser, car was competitive after Nurburgring. After that it was Red Bull domination but McLaren had competitive cars. 2013 he moved to Mercedes.

 

[Tiber]

You're not. He was ahead of 2 time champion Alonso until it fell apart a little in the last few rounds, and Kimi ended up winnng. He ended up tying with Alonso on points - a hugely impressive feat for a rookie.

Anybody who thinks Hamilton just lucked into it really have no idea.

I don't think he is successful because of luck, he is one of the best drivers of all time. But an unstoppable car certainly played a significant role in winning 6 of the last 7 titles (and the 7th was won by the same car) just like it did when Red Bull won 4 in a row before that.

And its awful for the sport to have 2 teams win in 11 years. 10 of them by the same 2 drivers - one of whom is currently stuck in the midfield.

 

[RoadTrip]

What time is quali?

 

[ArmchairCritic]

What time is quali?

17:00.

 

[RoadTrip]

17:00.

Cheers

 

[RoadTrip]

I was having a think earlier, only because seeing Russell’s performance, it made me wonder what other factors impact performance outside of purely car and driver talent. I’m not raising the question because I’m trying to diminish what Hamilton has done or indeed Russell did in his first practices.

It’s all good having the same underlying car. But isn’t there so much more that goes into it then that? What about all the tweaks one can make to set up? What about the ability of engineers to translate issues drivers are facing on the track with solutions to the set up of the car?

I guess my point is, how much do the mechanics and engineers who support team Hamilton make a difference if they’re simply better than those who support Bottas? I imagine there is a lot of cross share between the two but I also imagine there must ultimately be two teams responsible for each? Or am I just wrong and the point irrelevant?

 

[ArmchairCritic]

Damn. I really wanted Schumacher to win F2. Doesn't he need a decent result to seal the title?

Mick P7 + fastest lap. Illot P6. Mick maintains a 14 point gap into the final race of the season, only a DNF or an incident can stop him becoming champion I think.

 

[elmo]

I was having a think earlier, only because seeing Russell’s performance, it made me wonder what other factors impact performance outside of purely car and driver talent. I’m not raising the question because I’m trying to diminish what Hamilton has done or indeed Russell did in his first practices.

It’s all good having the same underlying car. But isn’t there so much more that goes into it then that? What about all the tweaks one can make to set up? What about the ability of engineers to translate issues drivers are facing on the track with solutions to the set up of the car?

I guess my point is, how much do the mechanics and engineers who support team Hamilton make a difference if they’re simply better than those who support Bottas? I imagine there is a lot of cross share between the two but I also imagine there must ultimately be two teams responsible for each? Or am I just wrong and the point irrelevant?

Makes a lot of difference.

Just take a look at how many times Ferrari's pit crew have fecked up this season for Vettel compared to Leclerc.

And Ferrari's car this year is engineered towards Leclerc's preference rather than Vettel, which is why you see Better struggling to bring out the best from it while Leclerc can still push it to midfield rather than the back of the pack.

 

[Evans999]

If Russell dominates this weekend. Would Merc consider ditching Hamilton?
Lewis is on 33m a season surley George would accept 3m?

30m worth of Car development a season added. Lewis hasn't signed for next year, be no issue getting George out of his Williams seat with power unit deals.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I don't think he is successful because of luck, he is one of the best drivers of all time. But an unstoppable car certainly played a significant role in winning 6 of the last 7 titles (and the 7th was won by the same car) just like it did when Red Bull won 4 in a row before that.

And its awful for the sport to have 2 teams win in 11 years. 10 of them by the same 2 drivers - one of whom is currently stuck in the midfield.

Yes it’s true, but pretty much 99% of champions win because they’re in the best car. Technology has always guided who wins, even as far back as the 80s.

he made a wise choice in picking Mercedes and leaving Mclaren which at the time seemed a strange decision, and he’s helped build them to unstoppable levels. He deserves all the credit he gets, purely for the consistency alone.

 

[macheda14]

If Russell dominates this weekend. Would Merc consider ditching Hamilton?
Lewis is on 33m a season surley George would accept 3m?

30m worth of Car development a season added. Lewis hasn't signed for next year, be no issue getting George out of his Williams seat with power unit deals.

No. They wouldn’t drop the most successful driver of all time. Especially as they aren’t developing the car over this summer and the budget cap for development comes in next year.

 

[Infordin]

Yes it’s true, but pretty much 99% of champions win because they’re in the best car.

In the past, the best car changed from season to season. There was a lot more variety at the front, especially in the 80s and 90s when no team won more than 2 titles in a row.

Nowadays periods of domination are becoming increasing longer and longer. Mercedes have won 7 titles in a row which is the longest streak ever, and Red Bull won 4 titles in a row previous to that. In the last 11 years only 2 teams have won titles, which is basically unheard of in the history of F1.

 

[vangagal]

If Russell dominates this weekend. Would Merc consider ditching Hamilton?
Lewis is on 33m a season surley George would accept 3m?

30m worth of Car development a season added. Lewis hasn't signed for next year, be no issue getting George out of his Williams seat with power unit deals.

That would be stupid move.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

I was having a think earlier, only because seeing Russell’s performance, it made me wonder what other factors impact performance outside of purely car and driver talent. I’m not raising the question because I’m trying to diminish what Hamilton has done or indeed Russell did in his first practices.

It’s all good having the same underlying car. But isn’t there so much more that goes into it then that? What about all the tweaks one can make to set up? What about the ability of engineers to translate issues drivers are facing on the track with solutions to the set up of the car?

I guess my point is, how much do the mechanics and engineers who support team Hamilton make a difference if they’re simply better than those who support Bottas? I imagine there is a lot of cross share between the two but I also imagine there must ultimately be two teams responsible for each? Or am I just wrong and the point irrelevant?

Interestingly, Mercedes made Hamilton and Rosberg swap mechanics for 2016 and Hamilton was not happy (the DNF in Malaysia did not help).
Each car has strengths and weaknesses, where the driver can make a difference is being able to drive the car to it's limits in accordance with a specific setup. This setup will be honed between driver and engineer but the very best will allow the engineer to try more things and will show the engineers where there is potential to be unlocked. Vettel is a great example right now. He needs a very stable rear end to drive fast but the Ferrari does not have a stable rear end when it tries to go fast. Leclerc can deal with it that but Vettel cannot and that's why we see him spinning so much.

This year's Mercedes is the perfect race car, I think the only weakness it has is when it's stuck in traffic. It is a by-product of constant improvement throughout the hybrid era. Hamilton touched on it a few weeks ago:

“With last year’s car for example, we had the longest car. It’s definitely been a bit of a surprise to see that none of the other teams have gone to the longest car. We’ve been winning with the longest car since 2017, and they [other teams] are so stuck in the way they do things, in that ‘we’re still going to keep our car shorter.’ Being that it’s a long car, it’s obviously got great downforce, but it’s not as nimble as a shorter car. Last year our car was good through medium and high-speed corners, but was quite poor in low-speed corners. The car would not rotate as well as we’d like. We started this year in winter testing and the car had similar characteristics. I had some challenges that I put towards the team in terms of how we set the car up, which changed that. It’s difficult to say too much but that difficulty we had last year with the car rotating, we don’t have that problem any more.”

Hamilton says he is a driver who always prefers a responsive front end to a car, which has not always been something that Mercedes has delivered in recent seasons. However, he says dialling out the setup characteristics has not been the work of the moment, because of the complexity involved in ensuring a change in car balance does not hurt the tyres too much.

“I’ve always preferred a more positive front end in the car,” he said. “But there’s a limitation with these tyres. The front has a limitation, the rear has a limitation, grip wise. There’s saturation, there’s thermal deg and there’s only a certain amount you can do with the mechanical balance before it affects the other end. It’s like a see-saw. Last year our car was definitely very, very strong at the rear, and the car was generally driven by the rear end. The front was a lot more understeery last year. You struggled a lot more when you go over the tyre [grip] and no matter how much we put the mechanical rearwards it wouldn’t really fix it. This year we have made some changes.With the aero balance it’s a much longer process. You can’t just change it. Definitely over the winter we fixed it and moved the aero balance more rearwards, so the car was shifting different, and also at different steering angles and different yaw. So it definitely is working a lot better.”

In the years prior the Mercedes was renowned as a bit of a 'diva', so loads of hard work between drivers and engineers to hone the package combined with Ferrari's illegal engine has pushed Mercedes to where they are now. Really interested to see how Russell copes over a stint with the tyres, that's where Bottas really struggles compared to Hamilton.

The other important element is strategy between engineer and driver. Mercedes know Lewis can be a bit emotional over the radio but they also know how to manage that and that Hamilton is capable of pulling off a variety of different strategies. Communication is so critical and again as they do not know Russell so well it will be interesting to see how they react if he says the tyres are dead. Mercedes are not the best team when it comes to executing strategies, but it goes under the radar a bit.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

In the past, the best car changed from season to season. There was a lot more variety at the front, especially in the 80s and 90s when no team won more than 2 titles in a row.

Nowadays periods of domination are becoming increasing longer and longer. Mercedes have won 7 titles in a row which is the longest streak ever, and Red Bull won 4 titles in a row previous to that. In the last 11 years only 2 teams have won titles, which is basically unheard of in the history of F1.

84-94 were locked out by McLaren and Williams.

 

[Balljy]

In the past, the best car changed from season to season.

Although there is no doubting the dominance Mercedes have had for years, it's not like other teams haven't run them close some seasons. I (and most commentators) thought Ferrari had the better car in 2018 and certainly it had a better engine that year. The margin was pretty small that year and came down to strategy and drivers. That's not saying Mercedes haven't dominated, but it's not as simple as x number of championships in a row.

Red Bull have also had a couple of seasons where they were quicker on slow cornering tracks than the Mercedes.

 

[elmo]

If Russell dominates this weekend. Would Merc consider ditching Hamilton?
Lewis is on 33m a season surley George would accept 3m?

30m worth of Car development a season added. Lewis hasn't signed for next year, be no issue getting George out of his Williams seat with power unit deals.

No. Only reason they'll not have Lewis next year is if he decides he wants to retire.

They'll give him whatever he wants to continue racing.

 

[Buster15]

If Russell dominates this weekend. Would Merc consider ditching Hamilton?
Lewis is on 33m a season surley George would accept 3m?

30m worth of Car development a season added. Lewis hasn't signed for next year, be no issue getting George out of his Williams seat with power unit deals.

How do you know what Russell would accept. Total speculation.
And Toto Wolf has said on a number of occasions that Lewis Hamilton driving for Mercedes has transformed their commercial value.

 

[Infordin]

84-94 were locked out by McLaren and Williams.

It was always changing though

McLaren 84-85
Williams 86-87
McLaren 88-91
Williams 92-94

Also there was a lot more movement in the drivers market, so Senna, Prost, Mansell, Pique, Lauda, Berger, Patrese, Hill... all had opportunities to drive those cars at one point or another.

Not only has 2014-2021 been locked out by Mercedes, but there’s also almost no driver movement at the top. Merc have only had 3 drivers in this entire era: Hamilton, Rosberg and Bottas

It’s simply far easier for Hamilton to rack up ridiculous statistics than any driver of the past. The variety is lower, the competition is lower, dominance lasts longer, more race weekends than ever before, etc...

That’s why any kind of claim that Hamilton is “greater” than Senna or Prost or any other legend of the past is meaningless, in my view.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

It was always changing though

McLaren 84-85
Williams 86-87
McLaren 88-91
Williams 92-94

Also there was a lot more movement in the drivers market, so Senna, Prost, Mansell, Pique, Lauda, Berger, Patrese, Hill... all had opportunities to drive those cars at one point or another.

Not only has 2014-2021 been locked out by Mercedes, but there’s also almost no driver movement at the top. Merc have only had 3 drivers in this entire era: Hamilton, Rosberg and Bottas

It’s simply far easier for Hamilton to rack up ridiculous statistics than any driver of the past. The variety is lower, the competition is lower, dominance lasts longer, more race weekends than ever before, etc...

That’s why any kind of claim that Hamilton is “greater” than Senna or Prost or any other legend of the past is meaningless, in my view.

I agree. Another general observation in this era is that F1 seats are harder to get a hold of. There should be no way Hulkenberg and Perez do not have drives.

 

[Zlaatan]

Mick P7 + fastest lap. Illot P6. Mick maintains a 14 point gap into the final race of the season, only a DNF or an incident can stop him becoming champion I think.

That was a great race, all out action from start to finish. If the F1 race tomorrow can be half as good then we're in for a treat.

 

[Vidic_In_Moscow]

I can’t watch any clips of Romans crash or interviews/discussions about it without turning into an emotional wreck whats wrong with me

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Very emotional interview by Roman, he really thought he was going to die, at one stage.

 

[hp88]

Poor guy was preparing himself for the end there

 

[pauldyson1uk]

87 lap race, has to be one of if not the longest ever.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Forget FP, this is the big test for George.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Going for Max pole, with Russell, Bottas and maybe Albon for other places

 

[Jippy]

That sparking from some of the cars must cos some drag?

 

[Jippy]

Coverage has been shit. They're showing Norris coasting at 5mph between laps, missing Max take the lead. The coverage is so bitty you just see times appear on the left, but never see any full flying laps.

 

[Hephaestus]

Where the feck did Leclerc come from?

 

[Leg-End]

Mega effort from George that.

 

[Hephaestus]

So close between the top three there, fantastic effort from Russell. Well set up for the race, especially if Max can get a good start.

Leclerc's lap was excellent.

 

[Buster15]

Mega effort from George that.

Brilliant effort because Bottas is mighty during qualifying.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

1	Valtteri Bottas		Mercedes	fastest lap 0:53.904	0:53.803	fastest lap 0:53.377
2	George Russell		Mercedes	0:54.160	0:53.819	0:53.403
3	Max Verstappen		Red Bull	0:54.037	fastest lap 0:53.647	0:53.433
4	Charles Leclerc		Ferrari	0:54.249	0:53.825	0:53.613
5	Sergio Perez		Racing Point	0:54.236	0:53.787	0:53.790
6	Daniil Kvyat		AlphaTauri	0:54.346	0:53.856	0:53.906
7	Daniel Ricciardo		Renault	0:54.388	0:53.871	0:53.957
8	Carlos Sainz Jnr		McLaren	0:54.450	0:53.818	0:54.010
9	Pierre Gasly		AlphaTauri	0:54.207	0:53.941	0:54.154
10	Lance Stroll		Racing Point	0:54.595	0:53.840	0:54.200
11	Esteban Ocon		Renault	0:54.309	0:53.995	not available-
12	Alexander Albon		Red Bull	0:54.620	0:54.026	not available-
13	Sebastian Vettel		Ferrari	0:54.301	0:54.175	not available-
14	Antonio Giovinazzi		Alfa Romeo	0:54.523	0:54.377	not available-
15	Lando Norris		McLaren	0:54.194	0:54.693	not available-
16	Kevin Magnussen		Haas	0:54.705	not available-	not available-
17	Nicholas Latifi		Williams	0:54.796	not available-	not available-
18	Jack Aitken		Williams	0:54.892	not available-	not available-
19	Kimi Raikkonen		Alfa Romeo	0:54.963	not available-	not available-
20	Pietro Fittipaldi		Haas	0:55.426	not available-	not available-

 

[SilentWitness]

Some weird posts on the last few pages regarding Hamilton.

Mega by Russell today, showing he’s clearly one of the best young drivers on the grid and has the talent to take a car to a championship winning season. Albon once again showing he’s not good enough.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Some weird posts on the last few pages regarding Hamilton.

Mega by Russell today, showing he’s clearly one of the best young drivers on the grid and has the talent to take a car to a championship winning season. Albon once again showing he’s not good enough.

There is plenty of strange posts about Lewis, all over social media, apparently Russell doing well , means that it all the car.
I have said Russell is a cracking driver for a while, in a winning car he has proved it, I did think Albon would do better.

 

[Adam-Utd]

That sparking from some of the cars must cos some drag?

They have a titanium skid block on the bottom of the car, its purely there to make sparks and look cool. It mainly happens at high speeds when downforce is at its highest so the car is squashed down, or over bumps.

 

[Jippy]

They have a titanium skid block on the bottom of the car, its purely there to make sparks and look cool. It mainly happens at high speeds when downforce is at its highest so the car is squashed down, or over bumps.

The Red Bulls defo fired out most sparks. Did look kinda cool, but not as good as the flame with the old turbos