F1 2020 Season

[Adam-Utd]

Having less engines is actually a good thing really, much better all being similar power than just having an easy overtake because they're pushing 100hp more. It'll make development on the actual chassis and aero even more important.

Shame for Honda though, they went through a lot of embarrasement with the early Mclaren years, now they've started to get it sorted with Red Bull and now they're pulling out again. Odd.

Horner must be banging his head against the wall

 

[sun_tzu]

They don't benefit from selling engines as they sell next to or close to cost due to the price cap that is on place on engines. Abiteboul has said that having no customers is a welcomed position for them as they can concentrate on their own performance, and the results this season would suggest that there is some value in his statement.

that wont be an option if there isnt a new engine manufacturer - I believe Renault have to supply

The news leaves Red Bull and AlphaTauri without an engine constructor for the 2022 season and beyond but they will not go without.

The two options on the table for Red Bull are to potentially attract a new manufacturer to Formula 1 and, failing that, the regulations state that Renault, the constructor with the lowest numbers of customers, would have to supply Red Bull with power units.

Following the conclusion of the 2020 season, Renault will be without a customer team as McLaren will be powered by Mercedes again in 2021.

Renault and Red Bull have, of course, had a previous working relationship as Renault powered Red Bull’s cars from 2007 to the end of the 2018 season.

The partnership saw Red Bull four consecutive World Championship title doubles from 2010 to 2013 but the relationship notably soured when the wins and titles dried up before Red Bull jumped ship to Honda.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/honda-to-leave-formula-1/

unless redbull could pull off somethng with porsche / VW (seems a bit of a long shot to me given the economic uncertainty around F1)

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/69526/-volkswagen-is-ready-to-enter-f1-as-a-partner-of-red-bull-.html

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Red Bull is totally fecked! Honda's engines were better than Renault's and it'll be a step down both in performance and in relationship for them. Plus they won't get a say in design anymore.

 

[F-Red]

that wont be an option if there isnt a new engine manufacturer - I believe Renault have to supply

I think there will be a new engine manufacturer, 2022 rules on engines are more relaxed meaning it should encourage entry. Renault will be lobbying hard for this to happen.

 

[sun_tzu]

I think there will be a new engine manufacturer, 2022 rules on engines are more relaxed meaning it should encourage entry. Renault will be lobbying hard for this to happen.

I thought 2022 was new chasis rules but engines were pretty much unchanged... new engine rules due for 2026?

 

[F-Red]

I thought 2022 was new chasis rules but engines were pretty much unchanged... new engine rules due for 2026?

Sorry, provisional 2022 (or 2021 as it was originally down for) was the deal that was voted back on in 2018 and opting for stability and a refined version of the v6. The proposed engine rules was removing certain items, and allowing more plug and play elements from different suppliers. Albeit voted back, now that Honda are leaving it wouldn't surprise me that it re-opens that discussion. Renault being forced to supply engines might not yield the result the sport needs, potentially Red Bull might push for a new supplier as well as I think this puts Verstappen's position under the spotlight now as well (ie. he wants a works engine in the Red Bull, not a customer engine).

2026 is a blank canvas for engine rules at the minute, potential hydrogen based engines is being spoken about, but all rumours.

 

[sun_tzu]

Sorry, provisional 2022 (or 2021 as it was originally down for) was the deal that was voted back on in 2018 and opting for stability and a refined version of the v6. The proposed engine rules was removing certain items, and allowing more plug and play elements from different suppliers. Albeit voted back, now that Honda are leaving it wouldn't surprise me that it re-opens that discussion. Renault being forced to supply engines might not yield the result the sport needs, potentially Red Bull might push for a new supplier as well as I think this puts Verstappen's position under the spotlight now as well (ie. he wants a works engine in the Red Bull, not a customer engine).

2026 is a blank canvas for engine rules at the minute, potential hydrogen based engines is being spoken about, but all rumours.

Actually he apparently has a clause in his contract that says he can leave if red bull can not supply a "competitive engine" - sounds a very loose wording so difficult to enforce but even if (VW /audi /porshe /tag / whatever else they call it) supplied an engine there is no guarantee its competitive especially in its first year

 

[Ubik]

They'll get Renault, or if they pull a blinder/blackmail well enough, Merc.

 

[sun_tzu]

They'll get Renault, or if they pull a blinder/blackmail well enough, Merc.

or let merc have max when lewis retires

 

[Redplane]

Red Bull is totally fecked! Honda's engines were better than Renault's and it'll be a step down both in performance and in relationship for them. Plus they won't get a say in design anymore.

This kind of makes me wonder - hoe important is the popularity of the drivers when it comes to driving the sales of merchandise etc? It seems Max is right up there with Lewis so you d wonder how much power that gives him in getting certain assurances from the team before he decides to move on if it ends up getting dire enough.

 

[F-Red]

They'll get Renault, or if they pull a blinder/blackmail well enough, Merc.

No chance on Mercedes, that's been rebuffed many times before.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Shocked that Honda re pulling out.

As it stands, Red Bull's teams only have three alternative power providers to turn to from 2022.
Mercedes, the company's big F1 rivals, will already supply four teams from next season - McLaren, Racing Point, Williams and their own title-winning works team.
Ferrari, meanwhile, supply Haas and Alfa Romeo in addition to their own team.
With McLaren switching camps,
Renault will be the only manufacturer without any external customers on their books and previously supplied Red Bull for 12 seasons - including all four of the latter's double title-winning campaigns in the early 2010s.
I think they will go back to Renault, but nothing in F1 is ever straight forward.

 

[ZIDANE]

I don’t know why everyone is laughing at Red Bull, the jokes on us fans. With Ferrari a shambles and Renault the only option then we’re well set for more Mercedes domination. Max, Red Bull, and Honda were the only hope.

 

[F-Red]

Renault’s stance will be to comply with the regulation according to Abiteboul, but they’ve not had a request to supply Red Bull. Also says that a reunion would be awkward (no surprise).

 

[Gringo]

I wonder if the smart move would be stay at Renault if I were Ricciardo. Too late now though. Playing musical chairs in F1 is tough to predict.

 

[F-Red]

Mercedes investor call today outlined stronger links between the sub-brand AMG and the F1 brand. Seems like they won't be disappearing anytime soon.

 

[ArjenIsM3]

I don’t know why everyone is laughing at Red Bull, the jokes on us fans. With Ferrari a shambles and Renault the only option then we’re well set for more Mercedes domination. Max, Red Bull, and Honda were the only hope.

Yeah it's a shitshow for us fans tbh. Will make F1 even more boring.

 

[slyadams]

Rumours floating around that RB are looking to purchase the engine IP from Honda and either take over development themselves, or contact it out (Mugen).

If the costs aren't too extravagant, I can see this happening because without it, they will take quite a big step backwards.

 

[Cheimoon]

Rumours floating around that RB are looking to purchase the engine IP from Honda and either take over development themselves, or contact it out (Mugen).

If the costs aren't too extravagant, I can see this happening because without it, they will take quite a big step backwards.

Nothing to lose for Honda either, I suppose, as that engine knowledge is just going to go on the shelf otherwise.

 

[Redplane]

Rumours floating around that RB are looking to purchase the engine IP from Honda and either take over development themselves, or contact it out (Mugen).

If the costs aren't too extravagant, I can see this happening because without it, they will take quite a big step backwards.

Interesting and indeed hopefully positive for F1 but it does make you wonder if Max is gonna want to stick around to see how that will work out. Can imagine him getting restless after this season. He obviously still is plenty young for many years at the top but I can only assume he wants to be up there with the all time greats by the time he s done.

 

[slyadams]

Interesting and indeed hopefully positive for F1 but it does make you wonder if Max is gonna want to stick around to see how that will work out. Can imagine him getting restless after this season. He obviously still is plenty young for many years at the top but I can only assume he wants to be up there with the all time greats by the time he s done.

Yeah, but I think Max is a bit stuck. Where does he go? The only teams who realistically might/will be competitive other than RBR would be:

1) Mercedes - I don't think they'll pair Lewis and Max, they have everything to lose and not much to gain. This will depend on what Lewis is telling them he wants to do. If he tells them 2021 is his last season (with the team), which is also Honda's last season, then I think Max will be top of their list. I also think by then George Russell will be in the other Merc seat and Max and George would be a fantastic pairing both talent wise and experience (Max will be in his 8th season by that point)
2) Ferrari - very likely will still be pretty terrible by then, they would need a good 2021 and Max to believe in their plans
3) McLaren - with the Merc engine they'll take a little step forward, but will need a lot to go right over the next 1.5 years to be a championship winning team

 

[sun_tzu]

Nothing to lose for Honda either, I suppose, as that engine knowledge is just going to go on the shelf otherwise.

guess it depends if they see value in anything they have developed (hybrid / battery tech) - even then they could licence the tech to redbull anyway and retain the IP themselves
Would also probably see a lot of the engineers move over to Red Bull as well - perhaps even allow red bull to design their own sports car and try to break in to that market like mclaren?

 

[pauldyson1uk]

2020 Eifel Grand Prix weather forecast
FRIDAY, OCTOBER 9 - FP1 & FP2 WEATHER
Conditions: Overcast and wet with a high chance of frequent drizzle during the day.
Maximum temperature expected: 14 Celsius
Chance of rain: 80%

SATURDAY, OCTOBER 10 - FP3 & QUALIFYING WEATHER
Conditions: Cloudy start with a moderate chance of rain, then progressively scattered during the afternoon.
Maximum temperature expected: 11 Celsius
Chance of rain: 60%

SUNDAY, OCTOBER 11 - RACE WEATHER
Conditions: Chilly morning and scattered clouds all day long. Increasing chance of rain during the afternoon.
Maximum temperature expected: 9 Celsius
Chance of rain: 60%

Challenging conditions this weekend, should name for am interesting race.

 

[spontaneus1]

2020 Eifel Grand Prix weather forecast
FRIDAY, OCTOBER 9 - FP1 & FP2 WEATHER
Conditions: Overcast and wet with a high chance of frequent drizzle during the day.
Maximum temperature expected: 14 Celsius
Chance of rain: 80%

SATURDAY, OCTOBER 10 - FP3 & QUALIFYING WEATHER
Conditions: Cloudy start with a moderate chance of rain, then progressively scattered during the afternoon.
Maximum temperature expected: 11 Celsius
Chance of rain: 60%

SUNDAY, OCTOBER 11 - RACE WEATHER
Conditions: Chilly morning and scattered clouds all day long. Increasing chance of rain during the afternoon.
Maximum temperature expected: 9 Celsius
Chance of rain: 60%

Challenging conditions this weekend, should name for am interesting race.

A dry weekend then looking at that forcast.

 

[Adam-Utd]

With temperatures that low they might struggle to get the hard tyres to switch on at all. Teams with higher downforce will be the doing the best this week - Mercedes with the DAS system will be laughing... again.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

A dry weekend then looking at that forcast.

60 % Sat and Sunday, rain with the cool temps would make in difficult to say the least.
Agree with @Adam-Utd Mercedes should be laughing.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

FP1 delayed to at least midday, due mist the medical helicopter, cant take off.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

FP 1 now cancelled due Fog.

 

[spontaneus1]

Shame for the F2 drivers, might not get another chance at a FP1 session this year.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Still no FP2, doubt there will be either, could be going in to Q1 with just 1 FP session.

 

[ChaddyP]

I can feel this being a chaotic GP already with conditions And inability to do much testing. Should make for a nice mix up in racing

 

[pauldyson1uk]

No FP2, Medical helicopter cant fly.

 

[Redplane]

With temperatures that low they might struggle to get the hard tyres to switch on at all. Teams with higher downforce will be the doing the best this week - Mercedes with the DAS system will be laughing... again.

And Ferrari will be crying... Again.

 

[Adam-Utd]

And Ferrari will be crying... Again.

They actually don't struggle with downforce too much, on the slowest speed circuits they manage top 10 results (Leclerc does anyway) It's the drag that they have issue with.

Anywhere with high speeds they have to either strip off all the downforce to compensate, or have a normal amount of downforce but high drag which slows them on the straights.

It's been a while since the Nurburgring but I don't think it's a particularly high speed track apart from the end straight before the chicane, downforce in the middle sectors will be king so Ferrari might be not too bad.

I suspect it'll be Merc/Verstappen way ahead then a close fight between Mclaren/Force India and Renault with Leclerc in there somewhere.

 

[spontaneus1]

Ferrari only have a few more races of being shite anyway. I imagine they will be comfortable top 3 again next year.

 

[Ubik]

Ferrari only have a few more races of being shite anyway. I imagine they will be comfortable top 3 again next year.

These cars are being carried over to next year, so that remains to be seen.

 

[F-Red]

They'll get Renault, or if they pull a blinder/blackmail well enough, Merc.

Mercedes (Wolff) just confirmed they won't be supplying Red Bull engines once Honda leaves.

 

[Redplane]

Mercedes (Wolff) just confirmed they won't be supplying Red Bull engines once Honda leaves.

He already said that a week or more ago. Was just re affirming it so nothing new really. Only thing thats interesting is that Ferrari appears to be the only supplier that appears to leave the door open for an approach by them. BUT-it also seems all 3 are hinting at RB going down their own path - as was rumored before. Buying the Honda IP and probably some of their mechanics would seem to make the most sense.

 

[Ubik]

He already said that a week or more ago. Was just re affirming it so nothing new really. Only thing thats interesting is that Ferrari appears to be the only supplier that appears to leave the door open for an approach by them. BUT-it also seems all 3 are hinting at RB going down their own path - as was rumored before. Buying the Honda IP and probably some of their mechanics would seem to make the most sense.

That sounds like the most risky and expensive option to me. Where have you seen Renault close the door?

 

[Redplane]

That sounds like the most risky and expensive option to me. Where have you seen Renault close the door?

Not fully close the door I guess but Cyril makes it sound like it's not very plausible at all: https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...ari-engines-as-he.4mbchKNDJdMDGhMadLQLcb.html