F1 2022 Season

[Amar__]

Great driving from Max, and great driving from Hamilton in the final part of the race. Leclerc another brilliant race, probably the fastest driver today, started 3rd - finished 6th! Amazing stuff!

For a start, Ferrari need to make sure Leclerc is driver no. 1 because Sainz obviously doesn't have it in him, and he should help him as more as possible. Regarding tactics, I seriously doubt they can improve. But the good thing is that they can't be worse than this.

Ferrari seem to want to make sure he doesn't win the title. His mediums in the second stint were used less than Hamilton's softs in the last stint. What were they thinking pitting him then and putting him on hards.

That was actually the most amazing part of their strategy. They saw Max pitting and they pitted him immediately for some reason. Not only they opted for Hard, but they pitted him at least 10 laps earlier than they should have considering be was very gentle on his tyres even in his first stint and lasted the longest.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Upto 5th in the superbru thing. That’s was a tough weekend to get things right.

Merc with pole and fastest lap is good to see, was happy with that.

Brilliant from verstappen, just made it look so easy gradually cruising to the front and staying there with ease, I’ve come to terms with him winning the dc now, there’s no real competition to him
But he’s doing his bit more than good enough to be fair

Good drive from vettel too

 

[Adam-Utd]

Ferraris super computer needs binning.

Clearly they panicked and thought covering Max was the right idea, but completely ignored the hard tyre was dogshit for the majority of the field.

Only really Norris managed to put it on and not completely shit the bed, I think his car was setup for wet weather conditions as he burned through his soft set pretty quick.

 

[hobbers]

It's amazing just how much has gone wrong for Leclerc in all departments this season, if you break it down..

35 points lost to driver error in Imola and France
43 points lost for the two engine failures (not forgetting Max has also lost 36 points from reliability)
~36 points lost from bad strategy errors at Monaco, GB and Hungary

If you cut out the driver and team errors and equalised the engine failures that makes up 78 of the 80 point deficit.

 

[SilentWitness]

I think you would be hard pressed to find 80 points lost for Leclerc that you could attribute to the Ferrari strategy team.

as I said. Mistakes come with being frustrated at the team too. Add in that Sainz is more capable in the Ferrari than Perez in the RB and you’d have a team that can take on Max. Lewis was helped out by Bottas at times to chip away at point tallies.

 

[GeorgieBoy]

Cool down room today.
The laughs at the end when Lewis questions Ferrari's true choice...

 

[Ahmer Baig]

Fernando Alonso lap 1 team radio after the squeeze at the wall by his teammate:

“If we both finish the race in the race, it's because of me.”

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[VorZakone]

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[redshaw]

Hamilton still got it. Max and Lewis still the best on the grid.

Ferrari messing up again but it's been errors all round. The drivers and team will have to develop the winning formula, both aspects look quite raw.

 

[Camy89]

I find Max very difficult to warm to, likely because I find Horner insufferable and whiny. He’s a very good driver though, I can’t deny that but he seems slightly more mature and level headed this year with his driving.

Probably a big factor is the fact he’s got daylight between him and the rest of the pack in the championship

 

[The Firestarter]

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Yeah perhaps the actual f1 teams are supposed to have more resources to calculate the correct strategy than a tire maker. All teams but one that is.

 

[Hal9000]

I find Max very difficult to warm to, likely because I find Horner insufferable and whiny. He’s a very good driver though, I can’t deny that but he seems slightly more mature and level headed this year with his driving.

Probably a big factor is the fact he’s got daylight between him and the rest of the pack in the championship

I find a large part of it is because he's got Marko, Horner and his dad in his corner, all grade idiots who stir the pot. I think lot of it from Max last year was probably them winding him up.

 

[Hal9000]

Yeah perhaps the actual f1 teams are supposed to have more resources to calculate the correct strategy than a tire maker. All teams but one that is.

Pirelli has data from all the teams... Even ignoring that, and using your own sims and data... they only needed to look at the Alpines sliding down the grid.

 

[hp88]

I find a large part of it is because he's got Marko, Horner and his dad in his corner, all grade idiots who stir the pot. I think lot of it from Max last year was probably them winding him up.

Yeah it’s down to the team, even Vettel came across a complete twat whilst he was driving with them, totally changed my opinion on him once he left the team. Said it a few days ago but Max will become a more likeable figure once he leaves RBR.

 

[Doracle]

Hamilton was about 15 seconds behind Leclerc I think when Max pitted for the second time. Lewis ended up 8 seconds behind Max. If Leclerc had just followed the right strategy he wins that race easily. In a season of bad decisions, that was Ferrari’s worst.

 

[Hal9000]

Hamilton was about 15 seconds behind Leclerc I think when Max pitted for the second time. Lewis ended up 8 seconds behind Max. If Leclerc had just followed the right strategy he wins that race easily. In a season of bad decisions, that was Ferrari’s worst.

Not 100% sure, Sainz pace on softs was poor and Charles was aswell when he switched off the hards. I think Max would of undercut them anyway and then Feraris just had no pace on the softs to get anywhere near him in the final stint. Lewis was taking 1sec or more out of Sainz on the same tyres.

 

[Camy89]

Yeah it’s down to the team, even Vettel came across a complete twat whilst he was driving with them, totally changed my opinion on him once he left the team. Said it a few days ago but Max will become a more likeable figure once he leaves RBR.

Jesus I just realised I thought the exact same. Couldn’t stand Vettel at RBR but realised he was a cool guy at Ferrari onwards…

…must be RBR.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Ferraris super computer needs binning.

Clearly they panicked and thought covering Max was the right idea, but completely ignored the hard tyre was dogshit for the majority of the field.

Only really Norris managed to put it on and not completely shit the bed, I think his car was setup for wet weather conditions as he burned through his soft set pretty quick.

Good point - also he had the two Alpines behind him both on older hards so he had a pretty comfortable buffer.

 

[Zarlak]

Obligatory 'what the feck are Ferrari playing at', good to see both Mercedes on the podium, leading a race for 30 laps and defending the Ferraris off the line is a good indicator, hopefully the second half of the season continues like this. This year is a write off but hopefully next year they're much more competitive.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

”If you think differently from me you’re biased, end of story”. Frankly a pathetic stance.

I simply don’t agree. If anything whatsoever goes against red bull you can be 100% sure Horner will be in the press complaining and playing the victim, I just don’t see toto doing that to the same degree. It’s OK for us to disagree.

Missed your post so apologies for the belated reply.

Frankly nothing Horner has done in the press is as actually bad as Toto actively encouraging a race director to disregard safety measures so as to give his team an advantage. Of course I can easily imagine Horner doing this had the positions been swapped, but this is more or less my point.

Horner faffing about in the press is of far less consequence than Toto petitioning the race director to not deploy a safety car - again though, these two are absolutely birds of a feather and undoubtedly would have acted the same had circumstances been different.

 

[Zarlak]

Missed your post so apologies for the belated reply.

Frankly nothing Horner has done in the press is as actually bad as Toto actively encouraging a race director to disregard safety measures so as to give his team an advantage. Of course I can easily imagine Horner doing this had the positions been swapped, but this is more or less my point.

Horner faffing about in the press is of far less consequence than Toto petitioning the race director to not deploy a safety car - again though, these two are absolutely birds of a feather and undoubtedly would have acted the same had circumstances been different.

I think you're showing your own bias here. The mistake that Masi made that cost him his job and was a complete reinterpretation of very clear rules came because Horner and co were actively petitioning for it on the radio. When it comes to trying to get an advantage for their team, all team principles are as bad as each other - when it comes to being an actual human being, most teams act with grace where as Horner victim blames everyone, tries to insinuate that other people are trying to kill his driver etc - cnut behaviour.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

I think you're showing your own bias here. The mistake that Masi made that cost him his job and was a complete reinterpretation of very clear rules came because Horner and co were actively petitioning for it on the radio. When it comes to trying to get an advantage for their team, all team principles are as bad as each other - when it comes to being an actual human being, most teams act with grace where as Horner victim blames everyone, tries to insinuate that other people are trying to kill his driver etc - cnut behaviour.

The bolded was literally my original point - the poster I quoted had a go at me for suggesting that Horner and Wolff were equivalent morally.

I also would further suggest that Wolff's conduct last year went beyond the pale versus whatever anyone says in the media - pushing a race director to not deploy a safety car so as to advantage your own team is fecking ridiculous and unacceptable. Racing is obviously dangerous but a team principal advocating for unsafe conditions to preserve an advantage is indefensible.

Again though, my point is that Horner would have done the exact same thing had the positions been reversed - I'm certainly not arguing that Horner is a saint, I'm arguing that he and Wolff are cut from the same cloth and anyone who thinks one is morally superior to the other is silly and biased.

 

[Zarlak]

The bolded was literally my original point - the poster I quoted had a go at me for suggesting that Horner and Wolff were equivalent morally.

I also would further suggest that Wolff's conduct last year went beyond the pale versus whatever anyone says in the media - pushing a race director to not deploy a safety car so as to advantage your own team is fecking ridiculous and unacceptable. Racing is obviously dangerous but a team principal advocating for unsafe conditions to preserve an advantage is indefensible.

Again though, my point is that Horner would have done the exact same thing had the positions been reversed - I'm certainly not arguing that Horner is a saint, I'm arguing that he and Wolff are cut from the same cloth and anyone who thinks one is morally superior to the other is silly and biased.

Them being on par in one aspect of a job and not at all in other areas of their lives by default makes them not equal.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Them being on par in one aspect of a job and not at all in other areas of their lives by default makes them not equal.

What? Are you arguing that we can't weigh their actions against each other since they've taken different paths to F1?

 

[Tyrion]

Yeah George even said he felt sorry for Leclerc in his media interview post race. It's incredible

Sainz did say in an interview last week that "We're not a disaster like people think" so they're obviously aware of it. It's amazing that they do nothing about it.

 

[hobbers]

If you dont think a team principal acts like a cnut then its a good sign they haven't been doing their job well enough. Read - Binotto.

Horner and Toto are the two guys every young driver in the lower categories want to impress. It's largely because of their presence that talents like Vettel, Verstappen, Hamilton and Russell sign up for the long term with their teams. Because they fight tooth and nail for their drivers with the stewards and in the press, and are happy to bend all the rules as far as they can possibly go before snapping back.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

If you dont think a team principal acts like a cnut then its a good sign they haven't been doing their job well enough. Read - Binotto.

Horner and Toto are the two guys every young driver in the lower categories want to impress. It's largely because of their presence that talents like Vettel, Verstappen, Hamilton and Russell sign up for the long term with their teams. Because they fight tooth and nail for their drivers with the stewards and in the press, and are happy to bend all the rules as far as they can possibly go before snapping back.

Spot on. Trying to split hairs between the best to do it so as to argue some sort of moral superiority is ridiculous in my opinion.

Horner and Wolff are both cutthroat bastards who will do whatever it takes to win. If you think one is more righteous than the other you are very likely biased by a driver preference.

 

[hobbers]

Spot on. Trying to split hairs between the best to do it so as to argue some sort of moral superiority is ridiculous in my opinion.

Horner and Wolff are both cutthroat bastards who will do whatever it takes to win. If you think one is more righteous than the other you are very likely biased by a driver preference.

Anyone trying to bring morality into this thread is probably in their own little world. If you want to do a Horner vs Wolff top trumps it's way more interesting to compare their careers.

Toto is a money man worth upwards of £600m, jumped into the hotseat at Mercedes with his only experience being 3 years as a director at Williams. Immediately built a team that won 8 constructors in a row.

Horner built his own racing team aged 25 and was team boss of an F1 team aged 30. He's been an F1 team boss for 18 years and yet is still the youngest of them on the grid.

They're both insane. The Wenger and Mourinho of F1.

 

[telstar96]

Fernando Alonso lap 1 team radio after the squeeze at the wall by his teammate:

“If we both finish the race in the race, it's because of me.”

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This first lap from Ocon was disgraceful. I can understand, on the run down to the first corner, it can get messy and I think there wouldn't be many complaints with Ocon's weaving. However, when you see the decision to wash Alonso off track at turn 5, it's hard to defend his driving. Then, further into the race, although not an unfair move, the decision to squeeze Alonso after the pit stops which allowed Ricciardo to pass both of them baffles me. It's like he's more concerned about beating his teammate at the expense of the team and his own performance. Very much a guy who bring others down with him. It's not the first time Ocon has had issues with faster teammates, Perez being the obvious example. It's frustrating, because Ocon's story to F1 is so likeable and he seems like such a down to earth guy in sport dominated by the elite. But as soon he jumps in the car, he becomes a knob.

I remember listening to Gasly's appearance on beyond the grid. He talked about how he fell out with Ocon over the latter's behaviour during his karting days. Gasly said Ocon would crash into him in order to secure wins, even cutting the track once to do so, and generally racing overaggressively in order not to finish behind Gasly. Of course you have to take what Gasly says with a pinch of salt but I think there's enough evidence in Ocon's F1 career to suggest he's a sore loser and will go to any length as to not lose to his rivals/teammates, even if it means damaging his own and the team's race.

Alpine have an incredible talent in Piastri, waiting to get a seat, so they really need to decide whether Ocon is the future of their team. Personally, I think Alonso is much the better driver, despite his age, and would serve well in mentoring a younger driver like Piastri. I think if you put Ocon and Piastri together, there will be fireworks, especially when Ocon realises how good Piastri is. Last thing you want is a rattled Ocon and an inexperienced driver having to deal with his nonsense.

 

[Zarlak]

What? Are you arguing that we can't weigh their actions against each other since they've taken different paths to F1?

No I'm saying if two people are identical in one aspect but very different in all others, then they are not overall equal to each other and to argue so is simply foolish.

 

[Ahmer Baig]

This first lap from Ocon was disgraceful. I can understand, on the run down to the first corner, it can get messy and I think there wouldn't be many complaints with Ocon's weaving. However, when you see the decision to wash Alonso off track at turn 5, it's hard to defend his driving. Then, further into the race, although not an unfair move, the decision to squeeze Alonso after the pit stops which allowed Ricciardo to pass both of them baffles me. It's like he's more concerned about beating his teammate at the expense of the team and his own performance. Very much a guy who bring others down with him. It's not the first time Ocon has had issues with faster teammates, Perez being the obvious example. It's frustrating, because Ocon's story to F1 is so likeable and he seems like such a down to earth guy in sport dominated by the elite. But as soon he jumps in the car, he becomes a knob.

I remember listening to Gasly's appearance on beyond the grid. He talked about how he fell out with Ocon over the latter's behaviour during his karting days. Gasly said Ocon would crash into him in order to secure wins, even cutting the track once to do so, and generally racing overaggressively in order not to finish behind Gasly. Of course you have to take what Gasly says with a pinch of salt but I think there's enough evidence in Ocon's F1 career to suggest he's a sore loser and will go to any length as to not lose to his rivals/teammates, even if it means damaging his own and the team's race.

Alpine have an incredible talent in Piastri, waiting to get a seat, so they really need to decide whether Ocon is the future of their team. Personally, I think Alonso is much the better driver, despite his age, and would serve well in mentoring a younger driver like Piastri. I think if you put Ocon and Piastri together, there will be fireworks, especially when Ocon realises how good Piastri is. Last thing you want is a rattled Ocon and an inexperienced driver having to deal with his nonsense.

Remember first couple of races and Ocon's behavior. Alpine will never replace Ocon being French.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Fernando Alonso lap 1 team radio after the squeeze at the wall by his teammate:

“If we both finish the race in the race, it's because of me.”

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"All the time you have to leave the space!"

 

[slyadams]

Missed your post so apologies for the belated reply.

Frankly nothing Horner has done in the press is as actually bad as Toto actively encouraging a race director to disregard safety measures so as to give his team an advantage. Of course I can easily imagine Horner doing this had the positions been swapped, but this is more or less my point.

Horner faffing about in the press is of far less consequence than Toto petitioning the race director to not deploy a safety car - again though, these two are absolutely birds of a feather and undoubtedly would have acted the same had circumstances been different.

Horner literally was petitioning saying “we only need one racing lap” encouraging the SC rules to be ignored. So I think you’re wrong.

 

[Buster15]

I find Max very difficult to warm to, likely because I find Horner insufferable and whiny. He’s a very good driver though, I can’t deny that but he seems slightly more mature and level headed this year with his driving.

Probably a big factor is the fact he’s got daylight between him and the rest of the pack in the championship

Agree with this.
There is no doubting Max is a really special talent and he is definitely fulfilling his potential.
But like you, I don't really like him as a person.
But I accept that is just my opinion.
And similarly, Red Bull are a brilliant racing team ably led by Horner.
But I really don't like him as a person either.

Very well done to Mercedes for turning a terrible car into a competitive one. Albeit taking half a season.

The second half could be quite exciting in terms of racing with Mercedes back in connection.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Horner literally was petitioning saying “we only need one racing lap” encouraging the SC rules to be ignored. So I think you’re wrong.

Surely you can see the difference between safety car procedure once the danger has passed versus deploying a safety car in the first place?

And again, my point isn't that Horner is some saint or is better. It's that he and Wolff are equally selfish pricks.

 

[slyadams]

Surely you can see the difference between safety car procedure once the danger has passed versus deploying a safety car in the first place?

And again, my point isn't that Horner is some saint or is better. It's that he and Wolff are equally selfish pricks.

I think both are bad, but if that’s a wash then on the rest Horner is streets ahead.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Surely you can see the difference between safety car procedure once the danger has passed versus deploying a safety car in the first place?

And again, my point isn't that Horner is some saint or is better. It's that he and Wolff are equally selfish pricks.

Seems a strange point to make when you consider Horner has many more examples of being a prick. But meh.

 

[altodevil]

Alonso to AM - backwards move so reckon he had no choice.

 

[Zarlak]

What a bizarre move. All the news has always been that Alpine love Alonso and all the help he gives them, he's been in good form this season and then he randomly takes a gigantic step backwards. Surely the move is to get rid of Ocon.

 

[Mike Smalling]

That's really a shame, in my opinion. Alonso should in a somewhat competitive car, and Aston Martin isn't even trending in that direction.

Even if the scoreboard doesn't show it, hasn't he actually been better than Ocon this season?