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2023-24 Performances


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antohan

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Of course it is. And Pellistri has played at other levels too, he didnt have end product there either
I agree he has to improve there I said as much all the way back when we signed him but we frankly haven't given him the minutes to develop much at all (or he got them at the wrong club and setup).

Two upsides:

1) The stat is wrong as he has assists for the NT (doesn't change the analysis, but still)

2) One of the two assists you mention was in his last brief cameo and got us three points. Let's hope he can build on that.
 

ti vu

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No, if a team doesn't function well as a unit you need to make it function well as a unit.

We are clearly never going to agree on anything when you think that way so rest is TLDR.
If a team doesn't function well as an unit, you don't add to the problem by adding a player who is behind the other. Antony got dropped. Garnacho kinda displaced for Rashford left wing. For our latest game, despite there were still plenty of issues, we created chances from playing Rashford on right wing.
 

antohan

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If a team doesn't function well as an unit, you don't add to the problem by adding a player who is behind the other. Antony got dropped. Garnacho kinda displaced for Rashford left wing. For our latest game, despite there were still plenty of issues, we created chances from playing Rashford on right wing.
I'm not a Rashford hater and won't start now, but on the right he has all the bad habits he has on the left with almost none of his redeeming qualities.

Ball over the top on the break? Yeah, I want Rashford on the pitch anywhere across the frontline. Games last 90 minutes though and if you want us to achieve anything you need to put together teams that work well as a team and dominate games for 90 minutes.
 

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He's not even Antony. Thats the problem. At least Antony has a record of an okay amount of end product in Brazil and Ajax. Nothing special but something

This is Pellistri's career



He has 2 assists in mens football and they were both for us. Elanga is miles ahead
My biggest takeaway from this is that Pellestri averages an assist for us in the league every 237 minutes.

I don't have the stats for Anthony but I would bet it's at least over 1000 minutes per assist.
 

Borussia Teeth

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I would like to see Pellistri given more chances on the right. I'm not an Antony hater, I actually think he was decent last season but in terms of balance, I think Pellistri is the better option. We already have inverted wingers on the left in Rashford and Garnacho. Both of them want to cut in and shoot. A right footed rw who gets to the byline and provides crosses and cutbacks would compliment our front line. I don't want to see Bruno on the right, either.
 

ti vu

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I'm not a Rashford hater and won't start now, but on the right he has all the bad habits he has on the left with almost none of his redeeming qualities.

Ball over the top on the break? Yeah, I want Rashford on the pitch anywhere across the frontline. Games last 90 minutes though and if you want us to achieve anything you need to put together teams that work well as a team and dominate games for 90 minutes.
It's not only ball over the top. It's delivery and actually clear chance creation. Both Antony and Rashford created clearer chances for their teammates that got wasted. Not a lay off that required Bruno to feint to create an opening to shoot. There is zero evidence that Pellistri actually improved or will improve our team play to the required level to dominate teams.

Let's not pretend there is a bigger picture plan in place by starting a player who not exactly tear it up in reserve, to improve the team after you extended Rashford, signed Antony. Just because Bielsa likes certain profile of player doesn't mean it's some kind of master plan . Bielsa is not that good for club football in Europe. Dan James is several times the player who Bielsa tried to sign for Leeds all along. After getting him off our hands, guess what? He's the same player for us while Leeds got found out making the end of Bielsa.
 

ti vu

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My biggest takeaway from this is that Pellestri averages an assist for us in the league every 237 minutes.

I don't have the stats for Anthony but I would bet it's at least over 1000 minutes per assist.
For us right now, assist would require some luck since several players out of form trying to assist each other! In form Rashford and Bruno would bury the two chances Antony created one each for them against Luton and Newcastle. Rashford could have at least an assist against Luton. Hojlund narrowly missed a tap in when Antony switched play to Rashford who squared the ball across Sheffield United goal. In the same game, Antony won the ball higher up the pitch, and passed it to Rashford in good position. Rashford made a shite shot, where arguably he could have shot better or squared to other players. Shaw was denied an assist for Bruno against Tottenham, when Bruno messed up a sitter type of header while being totally unmarked.

It's not about these players playing well. It's that even when comparing their worst, the difference in end product is due to luck, not the quality offered in overall play.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/manutd-cristiano-ronaldo-antony-everton-28194238

Antony scored in his first three PL games for us which was a type of record!!! See how that spell out in the long run now. Small sample size is not a good judge of player. It's not like Pellistri is beating players for fun. Putting in quality delivery one after another.

How often do you see a player replicate the kind of lucky sequence leading to Pellistri assist to Bruno?
 
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Ekeke

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I agree he has to improve there I said as much all the way back when we signed him but we frankly haven't given him the minutes to develop much at all (or he got them at the wrong club and setup).

Two upsides:

1) The stat is wrong as he has assists for the NT (doesn't change the analysis, but still)

2) One of the two assists you mention was in his last brief cameo and got us three points. Let's hope he can build on that.
Absolutely. I have no problem at all with saying he's done well off the bench in recent times and I hope he continues with that. But when he does get a chance to start he has to take it and make something happen. In terms of his united career its pretty much now or never that he shows that end product, because our wingers arent going to be in any worse form and Amad has been out injured. So absolutely yes, next time he comes on as sub or starts a match I'd love to see him get a goal or assist

The other option is that he works on being a bit more physically strong and playing as a wingback where hardwork and lots of running dont have to have an end product. Doing it early enough he might be successful in a defensive role
 

antohan

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It's not only ball over the top. It's delivery and actually clear chance creation. Both Antony and Rashford created clearer chances for their teammates that got wasted. Not a lay off that required Bruno to feint to create an opening to shoot. There is zero evidence that Pellistri actually improved or will improve our team play to the required level to dominate teams.

Let's not pretend there is a bigger picture plan in place by starting a player who not exactly tear it up in reserve, to improve the team after you extended Rashford, signed Antony. Just because Bielsa likes certain profile of player doesn't mean it's some kind of master plan . Bielsa is not that good for club football in Europe. Dan James is several times the player who Bielsa tried to sign for Leeds all along. After getting him off our hands, guess what? He's the same player for us while Leeds got found out making the end of Bielsa.
In short, Pellistri only got an assist because Bruno did very well with his pass and the others don't get assists because those who received the ball made a meal of it.

Yeah, OK.
 

antohan

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The other option is that he works on being a bit more physically strong and playing as a wingback where hardwork and lots of running dont have to have an end product. Doing it early enough he might be successful in a defensive role
Nah, he would be mediocre at best. They are only sufficiently remarkable attributes to persevere with a classic winger working on his end product, but he won't become Zambrotta (originally a winger).
 

luke511

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He's not even Antony. Thats the problem. At least Antony has a record of an okay amount of end product in Brazil and Ajax. Nothing special but something

This is Pellistri's career



He has 2 assists in mens football and they were both for us. Elanga is miles ahead
For utd that's 0.38 assists per 90, which is actually a strong figure.
 

Ekeke

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Nah, he would be mediocre at best. They are only sufficiently remarkable attributes to persevere with a classic winger working on his end product, but he won't become Zambrotta (originally a winger).
Then he's likely to end up a less than mediocre winger
 

kundalini

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Decent assist for Darwin Nunez's goal tonight. Got to the byeline and pulled the ball back for Nunez to score with an impressive volley from about 10 yards.

Created a chance early in the 2nd half but it should have been an even better chance had he recognised that the best opportunity was before the defence had time to recover.

Surprised he didn't win a penalty but only seen it from one angle. Looked like defender fell onto the Pellistri's legs from behind after they contested a deflected pass.

Also involved in the build-up to the 3rd goal.
 
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antohan

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Was quite lively throughout. I know, Bolivia are shite so it doesn't count.

:moaningcaftardshouldhaveasmilie:


Positives: the confidence he has to take on players in tight spaces, did it a few times when still 0-0 to mix it up and throw their low block into disarray. Didn't need to after as it opened up.

Negatives: a couple of times he should have just shot. His decision making under no pressure has to improve: if he has time to think and look for options he uses it and that usually means letting the oppo regroup. The fact he uses it badly is secondary, the main issue is he shouldn't have taken any time to think anything in the first place.

He fell awkwardly late on after a slip and was subbed off immediately. Walked off the pitch but it didn't look good.
 
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Sylar

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Though guessing it won't matter as he will hardly play
 

theyneverlearn

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Though guessing it won't matter as he will hardly play
He’s our best RW option at the moment IMO, based on form.

Whilst not a world beater he is hard working and actually puts defenders under pressure. Better as an impact sub but I’d have him in over Antony currently.
 

RuudTom83

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Players just seem so fragile these days...every match is on a knife edge if they can make it through 90 mins or not.
 

Sylar

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Players just seem so fragile these days...every match is on a knife edge if they can make it through 90 mins or not.
I think it's a combination of more games, less of a break and even intense training sessions.
Players might be fitter but the body generally hasn't changed. And of course some teams either don't rotate or sub due to stubbornness or lack of quality to do so
 

Marwood

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I think it's a combination of more games, less of a break and even intense training sessions.
Players might be fitter but the body generally hasn't changed. And of course some teams either don't rotate or sub due to stubbornness or lack of quality to do so
Not sure that applies to a lot of our injured players though. Like Pellistri, we can't say they've overplayed. Too few games if anything.
 

antohan

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Mentioned it here.

He fell awkwardly late on after a slip and was subbed off immediately. Walked off the pitch but it didn't look good.
There had been light rain so surface was slippery and so late in the game (~87mins) instability with tired/overexerted muscles means trouble.

 

edgecutter

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Played well when he came on and he should be given more mins considering what Anthony and Rashford have served up.
 

Superunknown

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I like his movement and tenacity, but his passing, crossing and shooting seems very, very underpowered to me. Like somebody set the slider way too far in the wrong direction.
 

amolbhatia50k

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I like his movement and tenacity, but his passing, crossing and shooting seems very, very underpowered to me. Like somebody set the slider way too far in the wrong direction.
He’s decent off the bench but one of those players who are generally pretty good but tend to freeze when they have to deliver end product. Good enough cameo today.
 

NoPace

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I like his movement and tenacity, but his passing, crossing and shooting seems very, very underpowered to me. Like somebody set the slider way too far in the wrong direction.
I think he's just too weak at the moment. He's only 21 and has a tiny frame. Ideally we'd sign him to a longer deal and loan him out next year (Everton would actually make sense, they only have Harrison on loan there and Dyche likes an old-fashioned winger, or maybe Ligue 1 or the Bundesliga if there's a good fit and a team can be found that is in the Europa League or the Europa Conference (badly needs a real name) and has extra games and a massive hole at RW) and hopefully he gets a big stronger, at least in terms of smacking a ball.
 

NewGlory

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Ten Hag to give Pellistri enough chances, finally? Romano says - yes

 

ArmaDino

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Ten Hag to give Pellistri enough chances, finally? Romano says - yes

I think ETH is taking the Garnacho approach with him. Brings him to the first team. Gives him limited exposure via sub appearances and the is preparing him to start.

Let's see if he can take this opportunity.
 

NewGlory

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I think ETH is taking the Garnacho approach with him. Brings him to the first team. Gives him limited exposure via sub appearances and the is preparing him to start.

Let's see if he can take this opportunity.
It would be great. We could use a youngster as impactful on the right side, as Garnacho has been on the left.
 

ArmaDino

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It would be great. We could use a youngster as impactful on the right side, as Garnacho has been on the left.
It would be amazing. But I still view him as a Chicharito of the RW position. Amazing squad player that can be unleashed when everyone is tired to wreak havoc
 

NewGlory

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It would be amazing. But I still view him as a Chicharito of the RW position. Amazing squad player that can be unleashed when everyone is tired to wreak havoc
Could be. We haven't had a chance to see enough of him to know what he is made of, I think.

What I love about him is that he may be the only winger we have who isn't selfish and actually passes :) Now that we have proper CF in Hojlund, I want our wingers to assist him more and try shooting themselves from afar, less
 

UnitedSofa

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Laying down the gauntlet whilst saying to Antony - you better buck your ideas up
 

Marwood

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Thinking back to when we signed him, wasn’t he recommended by Forlan as a prolific goalscorer? He’s only very rarely had a chance to score but his finishing looks decent. Be nice to see him pop up with a few this season.
Don't think so.

Difficult to see how he could have been recommended on that basis. He'd barely scored a first team goal before coming here I think.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Don't think so.

Difficult to see how he could have been recommended on that basis. He'd barely scored a first team goal before coming here I think.
I must have misremembered. According to Google Forlan did recommend him (after managing him at Penarol) but it wasn’t because of his goals. He was raving about his dribbling ability. Even compared him to Ryan Giggs.
 

Wrecking ralf

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He’s deffo gonna start tomorrow then isn’t he. Him and Garnacho on the wings will be fun to watch. Keep that midfield tight and let’s have a go at them.