Work rate!
28
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 14
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 0
He's good , so it seems self defeating for Ten Hag to start Antony over him at this point.
Antony clearly isn't working right now, so much as it's a long shot Pellistri starting over him could be the kick up the arse he needs, but more likely just having a functional player there for a change might actually improve us, and expose Antony for the very average player he seems to be.
Antony clearly isn't working right now, so much as it's a long shot Pellistri starting over him could be the kick up the arse he needs, but more likely just having a functional player there for a change might actually improve us, and expose Antony for the very average player he seems to be.
Pellestri still has questions about being able to handle the physical side. Copenhagen are a physical side. He should be bought on after 70 minutes once the game has opened up.
I accept your concern that my praise for Pellistri on the occasion of providing the assist for the match winner in stoppage time in what most observers regarded as a must win for United was OTT. This was not scintillating football. But what it was a fringe player who subbed on late coming onto the pitch for a side which had barely bothered the opposing keeper fighting to create a chance and then laying the ball off sweetly instead of seeking the hopeless shot for himself, which led to the match winner.
You say “luck”, and there was an element of luck but Bruno’s shot was no lucky outcome. He took Pellistri’s pass beautifully and carved out the half chance that Rashford and Antony would never have carved out (peak Sancho maybe) and win the match that we desperately headed.
We were desperate for the win because our front line had been shocking this season. Through 11 games this season between Rashford and Antony they’ve amassed a combined 1 goal for sure and I’m only speculating but I would speculate 1 assist between them. That’s absurd.
All of us can see that Rashford and Antony have tools in their locker that Pellistri doesn’t. But their tools stay in their locker, while what few tools Pellistri has he brings to the pitch with him. I have no idea why Rashford and Antony have performed poorly this season, but if we’re going up be honest Antony was poor most of last season and Rashford ended last season well off from his purple patch between December and February. We’ve committed a lot of money to these two players, but based on form Pellistri should get starts over Antony and Garnacho over Rashford.
Pellistri cut in and had a tame shot earlier.
I clearly described Bruno effort as individual brilliance. The sequence lead to it has all kind of luck involved, that is rare fall nicely. Rashford in form doesn't lack
If you only look at assist stats and think Antony, Rashford don't create at all. Then you are too biased on the luck involved in this goal, yet total oblivious to the finisher being the key luck decider. xG goal for Bruno chance against Newcastle is higher. Antony pass could have been an assist. Bruno messed up the shot. Shaw should have gotten an assist. Guess what? Bruno messed up the tap in header against Tottenham. Lindelof got an assist and a key pass leading to goal from his second starts (at that time) as left back. You would have thought he is the best attacking left back using stats!!! Yet the two goals against Sheffield United came from two instances of individual brilliance. As as bad as we were in term of controlling the game, and dominate possession to pin Sheffield United back, we created better chances than these two goals through teamwork and effort.
Even as bad as the other players are, they did create more chances and play than Pellistri. Pellistri barely creates "actual" chance and the call for Pellistri to start is all just but based on the belief of good luck than actual ability.
Save this for last. You're wild to think based on form, Pellistri is better than Garnacho. Football is 90 minute game. One flukey sequence and an individual brilliance goal by Bruno doesn't make Pellistri form any better than Garnacho's. It's ill faith to base argument on assist and mistake (Garnacho loss possession leading the Newcastle opener goal), ignoring every other things else to judge player performance. Pellistri never shows the same level. It's like the same argument fan, especially opposition fan used to undermine Ronaldo in his first season.
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I'm so sorry if I left the impression that I believed that Pellistri > Garnacho. What I thought I had written was that Garnacho is better on form than Rashford and Pellistri on form than Antony. My view is very clear that Garnacho has a higher ceiling than Pellistri, but that's just my opinion.
As for Rashford, we know he can play football. We saw it last season, even if it was a purple patch over 4 months in a 9 month season.
As for Bruno, I posted recently a stat I picked up somewhere that Bruno led the PL last season in chances created. Misgivings about Bruno are still warranted but he's on top of his game he is absolutely a creator and a scorer. And he's willing to run himself into the ground on defensive duties.
But back to Pellistri. He's never going to be one of the world's great right wingers, but right now all we have in the squad is a ridiculously poor Antony, an Amad who's out with injury and a Pellistri who's willing to put in a proper shift for the shirt. I'll take the proper shift for the shirt every single single over a ridiculously poor player, however great his YouTube video of tricks from his time with his former club in a lower league may be.
I like him
Started against Argentina in Buenos Aires tonight.
Pressing them high up very well. Just dispossessed MacAllister and got him yellow carded.
Uruguay goal, 1-0, first goal they concede since the World Cup Final.
Pressing them high up very well. Just dispossessed MacAllister and got him yellow carded.
Uruguay goal, 1-0, first goal they concede since the World Cup Final.
Good for Uruguay, though I must admit Argentina is my favorite NT away from my home country. How is Pellistri playing?
Doing OK. You could argue he has a hand in the goal as he drags both Tagliafico and Macallister with him to the near post, so Araújo ends up all alone at the far post only minded by González (LW). Only one winner there.
Watched the highlight, was he playing on leftwing?
No, right wing, that's precisely why I say he had a hand in it, because their left back ended up playing RCB, leaving oceans of space for Araújo to slam it in at the far post.
Reading and watching Argie reactions since, they all highlight how the front three stuck to their script throughout the 90 minutes, thus ensuring Uruguay was always compact and outnumbered Argentina.
Ruggeri, a World Cup winner, of course didn't even remember Facu's name but pointed out "their kid on the right wing didn't go back and forth 20 or 30 minutes, he did it all game, all the 90 minutes, and we created absolutely nothing on that side".
I know international football, yadda yadda, but this is a Bielsa side keeping a clean sheet against both Brazil and Argentina, surely Ten Hag can use him?
Ruggeri, a World Cup winner, of course didn't even remember Facu's name but pointed out "their kid on the right wing didn't go back and forth 20 or 30 minutes, he did it all game, all the 90 minutes, and we created absolutely nothing on that side".
I know international football, yadda yadda, but this is a Bielsa side keeping a clean sheet against both Brazil and Argentina, surely Ten Hag can use him?
The problem is that we have Antony. He'll always be favoured over Pellestri. Just how it is at United.
Why do people keep saying this? Antony has been dropped numerous times this season. Although, obviously, he isn’t the only competition for Pellestri’s place in the starting lineup.
He immediately gets put back in Pogue and Pellestri never gets a look in. He'd rather put Rashford on the right who is just as useless than give him a proper go.
He started our first CL match of the season.
Which was piss poor management by Ten Hag.
He'd only played 20 odd minutes before his first start against Bayern, one of our hardest fixtures this season. To 'help' him he accuses the experienced and quality opposition defender of being a bad defender. He then gets another two starts quickly afterwards and then is dropped completely. He gets 3 starts in a 10 day period. Then barely a sniff for the rest of the season so far.
How is it remotely fair on the lad to put him in that position in the first place. To not have any playing time then throwing him in the deep end in a very small, intense period of time and then ignoring him again. It's crap management to put a youth player in that position. That isn't giving him a chance, that's throwing him to the wolves.
So started our first CL fixture and started the next two games after that one. I should have mentioned those fixtures too. My bad.
Where were we? Oh yeah. “He never gets a look in”…
He's a starter for Uruguay, but has played 27 minutes for us since the end of September. How exactly "does he get a look in"? It's not like we have a proper right winger that deserves to play ahead of him.
We don’t play well enough to make use of someone with his playing style. We isolate players and have a team of greedy, selfish individuals. He’d be stuck on the wing not getting passed to except when he’s got 2 players surrounding him and then everyone will call him shit and he’ll get dropped again. He’d be better off leaving us to have a decent career.
He got plenty of the ball when he played against Palace. 65 touches and 90 minutes. He had 4 shots with 0 on target amd 0 key passes
He hasnt played much but he has occasionally had a chance, sometimes off the bench he's made an impact but when he has started he hasnt done anything to help his cause. And in general he doesnt have a record at any level of end product, which any attacker is going to need to be successful at United.
He's 21 unless this dramatically changes in the next year or so he'll be gone, or one of those players who has a career as an occasional sub at a club they arent good enough for.
No, he's no Messi, but Pellistri is exactly the kind of player we need playing on the right wing -- unselfish and hard working. He'll never have the athleticism or Antony or the silky skills of Sancho, but he contributes to positive play, which is something that can't always be said of Rashford.
How could any player make any sort of impression with such sporadic games. He needs to be played consistently. Whether or not he makes it here is debatable, but if he was given the same amount of games as Antony has been gifted I’d definitely wager that Pellistri would have produced more. He plays very similar to Garnacho, who is raved about in here. He’s also the preferred option for his country and plays well for them so there’s obviously a player there.
He's not even Antony. Thats the problem. At least Antony has a record of an okay amount of end product in Brazil and Ajax. Nothing special but something
This is Pellistri's career
He has 2 assists in mens football and they were both for us. Elanga is miles ahead
Thats why hes been out on loan for several seasons
Because it's true? Pellistri has started 3 different matches in 3 different competitions. In all those matches Antony wasn't available for selection because he's a twat.
Antony has 200 more minutes this season than Pellistri has for us in total and he's provided diddly squat. Antony averages 1 assist every 10 games (~900 minutes) for us.He's not even Antony. Thats the problem. At least Antony has a record of an okay amount of end product in Brazil and Ajax. Nothing special but something
This is Pellistri's career
He has 2 assists in mens football and they were both for us. Elanga is miles ahead
Don't really care what Antony was capable of in the dominating team in the Dutch league. The current terrible Ajax side has 22 goals. In the PL there are 9 teams who have scored 9-14 goals in the 12 games. It's a different level .
Sadly, it's obvious this guy just isn't going to make it here. He seems absolutely miles off it if we're being honest.
Hopefully he will get a few more chances in the team but I just don't see how he goes from where he is now to a regular goal and assist provider. It would be a remarkable transformation.
Hopefully he will get a few more chances in the team but I just don't see how he goes from where he is now to a regular goal and assist provider. It would be a remarkable transformation.
Antony has also been dropped (put on the bench) for games when he wasn’t out of the squad due to being a twat. In those matches it wasn’t him keeping Pellistri out of the team, was it? In fact, there’s a decent chance he doesn’t start our next match. So the narrative that the undroppable Antony is keeping Pellistri out of the team isn’t true.
That's not what you were responding to.
This is what you had problem with. Never has Pellistri gotten the nod over Antony hence Antony has always been favored over Pellistri. Antony has been dropped for Garnacho with Rashford put out right which is EtH desperately clinging to Rashford putting in a decent performance.
Also Antony has arguably been dropped once, maybe twice. He didn't start against FCK and then again not against Luton. So dropped and didn't get back in. Also didn't start the City match. Last season he was never dropped. There were a few games he didn't start but those were in the midst of a host of games where rotation was needed.
We’re talking about this season, when Antony has been dropped multiple times. If other players are getting the nod ahead of Pellistri in those games then that’s obviously because Pellistri didn’t make the most of his three starts in that position earlier in the season and ETH sees other players (who aren’t Antony) as a better option. He’s not being frozen out because he’s being cock blocked by Antony specifically.
I’ve said a few times. The best option for him this year would have been replacing Amad at Sunderland. They needed a right winger and he’d also fit their style. If we were going to persist with Antony then Pellistri would have been able to have a decent, full season of games in England and really shown his quality.
I don't understand the logic you implied here?
Playing a certain RW helped solving Bielsa team's defensive deficiency? Nothing to do with Brazil is in the middle of bad form where before that game they drew Venezuela, barely won against Peru by last minute goal, and more recently threw a lead and lost to Colombia??? Their left back options are Lodi (Marseille is currently mid table in Lihue 1) , Arana (who failed with his European adventure), Carlos Agusto who started against Uruguay (on loan to Inter Milan who has less than a handful of start for Inter Milan). And Argentina left back options are Tagliafico as starter (look where Lyon is), Marcos Acura with Sevilla stuck in midtable. Both are in their early 30, and never was that good at their best to begin with. Argentina scoring record in previous WC qualifier games was hardly impressive for supposed World champions. What kept their winning streak impressive has been their defensive game, which was not really tested since the World Cup. Uruguay happens to be the toughest team they had played against!!!
We conceded plenty of goals and chance against Bayern when Pellistri started. Conceded Crystal Palace winner goal when Pellistri started. Didn't look like Pellistri brought the same effect to ETH tactic. Perhaps, ETH is not Bielsa?
What about the primary responsibility that RW and what we're crying for: ability to stretch play, penetration, create for striker? I didn't watch the Brazil game, but in this game against Argentine again Pellistri showed nothing for those things.
Bielsa tactic and his management has its limit for European club football, but his has always been and still is top tier when it's South American exclusive football. Not many teams and South American teams have the discipline to counter Bielsea famous high pressing, especially during qualifier phase with all the chop and change in selection, tactic.
The point was a Bielsa side isn't about individuals but team efforts. His high press is particularly vulnerable and unless the team works in sync throughout it typically turns into who can score more goals. Brazil with Neymar, Vinicius, Rodrygo, Bruno Guimaraes and Argentina with Messi, Álvarez, Di María, Lautaro and others... they couldn't score over more than 180 minutes.
When we barely look capable of functioning as a team, a player demonstrating the ability, commitment and discipline to do it effectively should be somewhat useful and, in the worst case, certainly not the reason we conceded four goals to Bayern or the one to Crystal Palace (he was sent over to act as a wall for the free kick so is literally the last guy who could have done anything to avoid it).
And yes, he stretches the play far more than Antony or Rashford do on the right so if that is what we are crying out for he is the best option we have right now.
I’m not going to argue that Pellistri is only one chance away from greatness, but based on what we’ve seen this season I’m going with Pellistri every time over Antony.He's not even Antony. Thats the problem. At least Antony has a record of an okay amount of end product in Brazil and Ajax. Nothing special but something
This is Pellistri's career
He has 2 assists in mens football and they were both for us. Elanga is miles ahead
You're contradicting yourself. If a team doesn't function well as an unit, individual brilliance is needed. Rashford maybe misfiring, but he's not totally dull, nor incapable to cause some issue to opposition in the attack. That's whole lot more than Pellistri had shown. Pellistri got provided some opportunity to score and he failed to make it count. Same thing happened even when you compare to his "good" performance for Uruguay.
Brazil is clearly having issue with scoring. There is a reason Bellingham is Real Madrid top scorer where he scored more than both Rodrygo and Vinicius combined. Neymar was on the decline and injured mid game. Richarlison, G.Jesus are never that prolific even when Jesus played for Man City. Similar can be said about Argentine. They hasn't been scoring that many as I pointed out, and Uruguay was the first real test for them since the World Cup. Plenty of players (some already aging and declining) in similar positions that don't make the a good team where there are positions that is very weak. (Starting LB is over 30 year old from a team currently bottom of Ligue 1!!)
In that Crystal Place game, in 10th minute, Crystal Palace created a chance with a cross from our right wing. That was an easier chance for Crystal Palace to score than their actual goal. I am not here blaming Pellistri. I meant not to Pellistri or any wingers to have "transformative" contribution to defensive solidity to team. You made a ridiculous point upselling Pellistri importance role for Uruguay. It's not the first two start for Pellistri under Bielsa. He started against Colombia too, which he got subbed after first half when Colombia took the lead.
On one hand you bigged up unquantified contribution, yet on the other hand you focused on end product (clean sheet, mistake directly leading to goal). Bayern could have scored more than those 4 goals. The question is whether the "team" as a whole helped break up play before the sequence arrives to the point of chance creation. Some of their goals started from Pellistri wing in/near his zone. It doesn't require a mistake on Pellistri, just quality gap to create opening is enough. For example, Their opening goal saw Alphonso Davies dribbling from wide area toward our central area before the play switch to Sane. Their second goal, Pellistri was behind vertically behind Dalot. He was no where close to mark Davies to excuse himself from not reading the situation better and giving some help, when Musiala turned and run at our goal (Pellistri took few steps forward even though Musiala had already turn on the burner running toward our goal). Pellistri jogged and didn't show the desire to get back even if it's too late like Eriksen showed at the end of the sequence for this goal. Sane chance at the end of first half was started when Bayern's easily unopposed to switch play. People often criticized Rashford in these kind of situation where he couldn't help his FB (Reguilon in this case against Sane). The bigger picture issue here is that Bayern was unopposed for the whole sequence. Pellistri stood off Davies who passed into players in central position, who had time and space to play line breaking pass into Sane in 1vs 1 situation with the full back. Then Sane chances hitting the post quickly after Kane penalty goal: Bayern moved the ball around, went past Pellistri defensive zone with ease. He tried to help, but he did not make the right decisive choice. Neither he stuck to Davies, and later Musiala and track their run. He chose to hold his zone which with some intelligence movement and correct passing choice they outnumbered him in his zone, enabled them to just play around him like he's not there. Kane chance around 61th minute where Bayern run through our midfield, again Eriksen showed more desire to run back to help. Rashford would be criticized for tracking back, but what about the hard working Pellistri's effort? After this, the long sequence of play leading to Sane shot where Lindelof had to help clear off a dangerous situation after Onana pushed the ball right back in front of goal. Sane with Davies overlapping had 2 vs 1 on Dalot and space and time for a shot. The lack of experience and defensive smart prevent him to position himself better to help the team : deeper, in front of our defensive line instead of sticking close to Musiala, then got pulled toward Kane just before Kane released the pass to Sane.
Just because he tries and runs on the outside doesn't mean he actually stretch play. Stretching play would mean pulling his marker out wide, forcing the other players to shuffling position to fill in the space in order to keep the team shape compact. This doesn't happen a lot with Pellistri because he had trouble actually cleanly got through behind the defender to put the cross in. He often just run a bit, turn back and pass to other players. Opposition can easily regroup, and pressure us back to regain territory. It's different variation but the same unproductive shite from both Rashford and Antony. Yet Rashford, and Antony still created a bit here and there, even if it's just some wayward shot from these positions. Rashford and Antony on the right wing against Luton created more clear chances for their teammates than even Pellistri assist for Bruno goal against Fulham.
Zero evidence Pellistri is the better option than those two.
Yes. But thats with a United bias. For Sunderland the better idea is to play their own player, or someone on loan that they have an agreement to buy - which could have been Pellistri
Heres the thing - both Amad and Pellistri have had 2 seasons on loan. Amad had a good start at Rangers then he played poorly and barely got chances after that. But then in his 2nd loan he went out and scored 13 goals in the championship. Pellistri played some games over the 2 seasons on loan but didnt show he had any end product. Even with Amad, when he comes back from his injury he still has it all to prove at United and he might be moved on. Even a 3rd season out on loan for Pellistri is probably working towards a future elsewhere.
Of course it is. And Pellistri has played at other levels too, he didnt have end product there either
No, if a team doesn't function well as a unit you need to make it function well as a unit.
We are clearly never going to agree on anything when you think that way so rest is TLDR.