I agree.
8
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 40
- Goals
- 3
- Assists
- 7
- Yellow cards
- 1
- Status
Implying that Mata and Mkhy can't play in the same side is just wrong.
Another great performance from Mata today, tidy, calm and most importantly dangerous.
You want as many players like Mata and Mkhy on the pitch as you can possibly afford without ruining defensive discipline. Even though I'm not entirely sold on Mkhy these are consistent match winners.
Whether or not we can improve on these players in one thing, but to suggest to improve we need a wide midfielder is simply untrue.
Another great performance from Mata today, tidy, calm and most importantly dangerous.
You want as many players like Mata and Mkhy on the pitch as you can possibly afford without ruining defensive discipline. Even though I'm not entirely sold on Mkhy these are consistent match winners.
Whether or not we can improve on these players in one thing, but to suggest to improve we need a wide midfielder is simply untrue.
Had a good game he is someone who keeps the ball rotating we are likely to loose ball on other flank where as he very rarely loses the ball. Sometimes i feel he needs to get little more power into his shots but it was wonderful bit of skill to create an opportunity for the Kasper's save
I thought he had a poor game when he plays on the right he suffocates our attacking play by never offering any width.
But Martial who was also playing inside doesn't? This weird bias by some people on here is strange. I get Mkhi and Martial are new toys and it's easy to forget Mata is a £40m man for a reason. If I had to pick between Mata or Mkhi, Mata wins. Only thing Mkhi has on him is pace.
How am I biased by saying Mata had a bad game?
because he quite clearly didn't so the only reasonable explanation someone could say he did is that:
1. They lack basic understand of the fundamentals of football, I doubt you're in this camp
2. They have an agenda against him because he doesn't have the 'pace' that has seemingly become a buzzword when it comes to Man Utd in the last two years.
Mata had a good game, was surprised when he came off. I would have taken off miki
I think the opposite. In tight games against a deep defence, having both Mata and Mkhitaryan on the pitch together is crucial. Their ability to play through the defence gives a different dimension to the attack. Both need someone to link up with who is on the same wavelength and without Herrera, the only ones capable of clever pass and move play through a crowded area are Mata and Mkhitaryan.
As with the West Ham game, the few times United looked likely to break through a deep lying defence, Mata was involved.
I thought he was excellent today, especially in the first half. He will be a key man in home games this season.
Like I said I thought Mata was having a poor game and called for him to be substituted for Rashford in the match day forum, luckily Jose was on the forum at the time and agreed 
As for Mata I'd play him in the middle and move Micky wide.
As for Mata I'd play him in the middle and move Micky wide.
Many would be singing a different tune had Kasper not pulled off an impressive save from some wonderful skill by Mata in the 1st half - that was lovely stuff
I don't really know what to make of him in this system, I think that his lack of any pace at all is magnified in this system and I find myself wondering why he is getting in the way of other attackers instead of retaining the shape of the attack by rejoining the flank. At one point in that first half he made a run all the way across the face of our attack to be overlapping Martial on the far side in which Martial cut in and shot and the rebound/ricochet/block would have fallen straight to where a right sided player would instinctively have been and he's standing on the left side touchline and I am saying to myself out loud "why are you even on the left mate?"...
He's obviously an excellent fundamental player but I genuinely don't see a future for him in this fast transition counter/push style going forward, our style lacks the adaptability of a space sponge and relies on every player in our attack stretching the shape of the opposition and playing quickly off their man. A curious caper going forward for Mourinho.
He's obviously an excellent fundamental player but I genuinely don't see a future for him in this fast transition counter/push style going forward, our style lacks the adaptability of a space sponge and relies on every player in our attack stretching the shape of the opposition and playing quickly off their man. A curious caper going forward for Mourinho.
He was our best attacking player in the first half by a distance.
What a strange criticism. Mata is supposed to come inside and Valencia is supposed to overlap and provide the width. Same on the other side regarding Martial and Blind. Mata and Martial can hardly be held to account for poor FB contributions on their respective flanks.
A very, very important player. His finesse and high quality technique is really what sets him apart for me than many of the other players we have
Brilliantly skilled and oozes class.. Love him..
If he had scored that curler after playing the 1-2 with Lukaku and nutmegging Maguire with his first touch I might still have an erection right now. Lovely piece of play, unlucky Schmeichel pulled off a great save
Great post
Did you consider that Maya's movement allowed Martial the space to do just that? He's comfortably the most clever attacker we have and his movement creates space not just for him but for his teammates.
This. We need direct threat and pace, not someone who crowds up the final third by having "good movement".
This last part makes no sense. Someone with good movement isn't someone who crowds up space, players with good movement create space.
I know but I meant it as irony because many of his defenders use the "good movement" argument when in actual fact his movement doesn't really create space.
Mourinho alluded to this point in the post match press conference.
I think these qualities may go unnoticed but it is something that is needed if playing against a team that sits so deep. He is also a goal threat, (could have scored a brace)
Him and miki have the best off the ball movement and are the most creative players and should start against the bus parking teams. Martial and Rashford for the most part you already know what they are going to try and do when they receive the ball. Whereas Mata and Miki have an element of "unpredictability" in them at times.
Mata was off for Rashford because his positioning was poor & ineffective in that game. He dropped deep many times to ask for the ball when Matic or Pogba had the ball and he didn't need to because Mkhy dropped deeper as well at the same time. As a result when Mata received the ball from either Pogba or Matic, he couldn't pass the ball forward since there is no option so he had to pass backward because no one in front of him. Obviously Jose knew that we need a goal at that time very badly and we won't score goals if we keep passing the ball backward so Rashford replaced Mata.
I'm not saying Mata shouldn't play next game but calling Mata had a good game against Leicester is wrong IMO.
I'm not saying Mata shouldn't play next game but calling Mata had a good game against Leicester is wrong IMO.
Mata had a good game against Leicester.
Playing Mata together with Mkhi has both pros and cons. The benefits include composure in the final third, creativity, link up play. Also, the nature of Mata cutting inside allow him to defend better as compared to playing a "wider" winger. However, the main downside is "congested middle", clashing with Mkhi/Pogba, exactly the same scenario as last season. In other word, we have minimal width on the right provided by Mata. Jose clearly wants Valencia to provide the width, but Valencia just couldn't deliver. We would have the same issue playing 4-3-3 with Mkhi as RW. No width from Mkhi, and Valencia underperforms. Not sure how Jose will solve this issue. He could pray for Valencia to deliver, or play a "wider" winger like Rashford/Lingard.
On the left it seems better. Rashford can attack the space with pace and Martial can dribble. Blind/Darmian can just "move up slightly and slowly and do some crossing". And we can bet on Shaw.
On the right, it's pretty much fixed for now. RW we have Mkhi/Mata/Lingard/Rashford, RB we only have Valencia. I don't think Valencia can improve by a lot. So it seems like Rashford could be the only "light in the tunnel" on RW, with a lot of uncertainty. Jose's willingness to try it a few times last season, pre-season, and also against Leicester implies that there is a slight chance of Rashford starting as RW.
On the left it seems better. Rashford can attack the space with pace and Martial can dribble. Blind/Darmian can just "move up slightly and slowly and do some crossing". And we can bet on Shaw.
On the right, it's pretty much fixed for now. RW we have Mkhi/Mata/Lingard/Rashford, RB we only have Valencia. I don't think Valencia can improve by a lot. So it seems like Rashford could be the only "light in the tunnel" on RW, with a lot of uncertainty. Jose's willingness to try it a few times last season, pre-season, and also against Leicester implies that there is a slight chance of Rashford starting as RW.
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He's more of a goal scoring second striker than provider now. His instincts while making runs and being predatory in the box set him up for that. I like the idea of interchanging between him and Herrera for lesser/bigger games.
Actually, this would have been a major issue last year with Zlatan in the side. But with Lukaku, we can actually afford to play them both. I feel if we play both Rashford and Martial, we'll lack a bit of creativity and find it hard to breakdown teams that sit deep. It depends on the form of the players also. Mata hasn't scored or assisted in 3 games but overall has been decent. One more point in favor of starting Mata would be that Rashford and Martial will have a bigger impact of the bench against tired defenders. Rashford also has to show that he can be as good on the right like he is on the left.
Exactly This. Martial and Rashford have been so effective mainly because Mata and Mkhi's, especially Mata's movement pretty much drains the opposition defenders physically and mentally.
Creatively Mata is arguably our best player, left to his own devices he can drift and wander and has a ghost-like or stealth quality to his play. Juan, sees things, gaps in defences and openings, especially in and around the box.
However the down side is Juan is woefully slow, even five minutes after KO and he tends to get slower, which is why Jose often pulls him off after an hour or 70 minutes. Mata needs other players of a similar 'ilk' around him to get the best from him, the likes of Henri Myki for example; however whether Jose would risk both of them is another story. At the moment the manager tends to stick one of (or both of) them out on the wing, usually right side, but unfortunately neither of them are wingers, certainly not wing-backs and their potency is reduced considerably.
Not sure how Mata will fare this season, he has competition from Myki as far as creativity and assists are concerned, also Herrera is not as creative, but he has twice the Long-life Duracell batteries than Mata has, 'scratchy-head' time for Jose on these players?
However the down side is Juan is woefully slow, even five minutes after KO and he tends to get slower, which is why Jose often pulls him off after an hour or 70 minutes. Mata needs other players of a similar 'ilk' around him to get the best from him, the likes of Henri Myki for example; however whether Jose would risk both of them is another story. At the moment the manager tends to stick one of (or both of) them out on the wing, usually right side, but unfortunately neither of them are wingers, certainly not wing-backs and their potency is reduced considerably.
Not sure how Mata will fare this season, he has competition from Myki as far as creativity and assists are concerned, also Herrera is not as creative, but he has twice the Long-life Duracell batteries than Mata has, 'scratchy-head' time for Jose on these players?
If Mourinho ever decides to play Martial off the left and Rashford off the right, I think Mata in the hole offers us better balance than Makhitaryan would. His ball retention and ability to set the tempo in the final third would make him a good fit with those two, seeing as neither is actually a winger.
He's good in the games we've played so far but it wouldn't surprise me if he goes completely missing away to Stoke.
I love the guy but for me he is the next link to upgrade in our attack with Griezmann.
I love the guy but for me he is the next link to upgrade in our attack with Griezmann.
I still think it's either Miki or Mata and it should be the former. Right now when Miki or Mata has the ball, the only runner is the other or Lukaku. Last year with Ibra, we saw the issues breaking down teams.
With Pogba freed up now thanks to Matic, add in a Miki OR Mata, we have enough creativity in the team. We need more runners off the ball. Play Rashford for this and hope Martial improves on this aspect or finds some form and chemistry with the others.
Why Mkhi over Mata? What's Mkhi better at other than running quickly?
You have your points and agree with it, especially the lack of creativity and impact sub. These are definitely the benefits of playing Mata over a "wider" winger. And I thought Mata did good as well in all of the first three games, although the stats masked his good performance.
The thing is that, playing Mata would be perfect if Valencia can provide a good/very good performance on the width. And I believe that was exactly Jose's game plan. But the fact is that Valencia underperforms, hence the "congested middle & without width" issue. Unless Valencia can deliver, playing a "wider" winger can balance out the lack of width issue.
Without Mata, Pogba and Mkhi can still provide enough creativity. And playing a "wider" RW give them an extra passing option, opening up more space and more link up play opportunities. All of these can further unleash their creative playmaking.
Also, it is not rocket science that breaking down a bus must be solved by "packing the middle with creative players". Using width is also another solution. Martial and Rashford have different attacking style. Rashford can attack the space whereas Martial can dribble and do some tricky move around the box. Both bring different dimension, more pace on width and more unpredictability as well.
All in all, unless our fullbacks can consistently give a good/very good performance, I think the "congested middle" is still a big issue this season, especially in breaking down a bus, as evidenced in the first 3 games. Counter attack is a different story, I think we should be good at that.
It is not so much about Mata is not good enough, is more about fitting the right player for the good of the whole system.
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I pretty much agree with what you say too. Valencia offers very little from the wing making our play too narrow. The opposition realise this and allow Valencia and Blind plenty of space knowing that they won't deliver good crosses. Since we are playing 7 games in the next 22 days, we'll be seeing different combinations and can come to a better conclusion on what works best for our team. I would start Rashford against Stoke and Mata against Basel.
Mkhi has 5 assists already and Mata has none. Surely that can't be a fluke.
If there is a season for Mata to shine at United, this is it. He now is surrounded by strong and fast players, which will create space for him to link up our attack.
People overrate Mata and refer to his early Chelsea form. He never picked up that kind of form since then or reached that level. He's a good, solid player who can have moments of magic, but he cant produce it on a consistent level, no matter which position he plays
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