I remember one Dutch pundit giving him a right slagging for thinking he was Mr Big Time and there was some stat that he gave the ball away something like 26 times in a game for them.
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I remember one Dutch pundit giving him a right slagging for thinking he was Mr Big Time and there was some stat that he gave the ball away something like 26 times in a game for them.
Since the WorldCup he's been a bit shit for the Netherlands actually. Didn't progress as hoped at all. The Netherlands ended 4th ffs in their group for the EC-qualifiers.
In fairness it was probably the worst effort from a Dutch team in their history. I mean even Ireland, Northern Ireland and Wales managed to qualify under the daft new format!
I can't really see what LVG has done wrong in the case of Memphis, other than perhaps signing him in the first place. That being said, I still think he should get another season.
I would like to see him in a 433 formation. Memphis and Martial would do better as wide forwards with a balanced midfield (no Fellaini or Mata). I see Memphis more as a finisher than a creator. Definitely he has the talent, he just need to be more consistent and play with confidence.
People complicate things again.He's just not good enough yet at the moment, particularly too one-dimensional and easy to be nullified by good enough defenders.He has time to sort that out through but his current position in the pecking order is fully justifiable.
Too soon to write him off but his poor season has little to do with LVG. He's been crap for the national team as well.
He was dropped in the NT just recently, and has been highly criticized by the Dutch Media after the poor perfomances during their failed Euro campaign.
This. When he was in the team week in week out, people said he was playing poorly because he was playing too much. When he was in and out, they said he was playing poorly because he wasn't getting a run of games.
The reason he's not playing is because he's a winger that simply can't beat his man. On the rare occasions he does, he doesn't lift his head up and runs into another defender. There's nothing Van Gaal can do differently.
I'm fairly sure that he will look worse in those leagues.
OK he might struggle with the tactical intelligence required in Italy, I doubt it but maybe, but why would he struggle in France?
Because in Ligue 1 the defenders are physical and the game defensive, basically the league could be his nightmare. The only good thing about loaning him to a ligue 1 coach is that someone like Genesio or Puel is that he will be thaught how to attack against people who intend to defend.
Granted he struggles a bit with the strength of PL defenders but I think he struggles more with the pace of the game and how quickly he is closed down.
If he can't succeed in England, France or Italy then there is no hope for him being a top player.
He has the tools but needs to learn, France and Germany are good places for that.
Biggest problem by a mile. Takes him ages to sort his feet out and always wants more time.
Yeah speed of thought is one definite issue. Defenders are quicker to close him down than he is to decide what he wants to do. That can be correlated to confidence as well. The other thing is that his dribbling technique involves a lot of trial and error. He seems to try a lot of shit which hopefully comes off rather than be in complete control.
He does have a lot of raw tools. But needs to work on how reliably he brings it all together in tight spaces.
He does have a lot of raw tools. But needs to work on how reliably he brings it all together in tight spaces.
I find some of the posts here hilarious. First of all lets see how Depay would play in a system and with a manager that people can actually understand. Its not as if he's the only one struggling with philosophy (ok he's struggling more than others but there again most of our players has EPL or British football experience, he does not).
Secondly why should we send him on loan? Its not as if we've got no experience in developing wingers. FFS some of the finest wingers the world had ever seen were developed by Manchester United, from Best to Ronaldo, from Kanchelskis to Becks right to Giggs. We'll do the same with Depay.
I'd say keep him at OT but consider him as a squad player. Griezmann/James/Dembele on the left, Mahrez/Mane on the right with Januzaj, Depay and Young as cover
Secondly why should we send him on loan? Its not as if we've got no experience in developing wingers. FFS some of the finest wingers the world had ever seen were developed by Manchester United, from Best to Ronaldo, from Kanchelskis to Becks right to Giggs. We'll do the same with Depay.
I'd say keep him at OT but consider him as a squad player. Griezmann/James/Dembele on the left, Mahrez/Mane on the right with Januzaj, Depay and Young as cover
He needs to be playing week in week out to develop. players aged 21 plus, its pointless having them as squad players behind a star like James/Martial. He will stunt. At this age he needs games and opportunities to build confidence. I'm saying he will be good enough because he hasn't impressed me in the slightest, however I want him to have the opportunity to play week in week out, build up confidence, improve, and see if he makes the grade. Being a squad player will just mean he'll come on, try too hard, make bad choices, kinda like Januzaj did.
I think that a solid campaign on all 4 fronts (EPL, CL, League cup, FA cup) will provide our players with plenty of games to develop. Also, Depay is not some 17 year old who needs to learn to apply the skills learnt to the game. He's 22 FFS and a Dutch international. Id say play him in a solid system that actually works in the EPL, give him some time to adapt and he'll prosper. Hence why I believe we should add a left winger who can play elsewhere equally well (James, Griezmann etc). If Depay does well, then we can move Griezmann/James elsewhere (forward line or behind the striker). If he fails, he would be a squad player
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The system isn't going to improve his pace, dribbling skills, close control, shooting, passing, intelligence and crossing. The system may change the areas where he receives the ball and how often but in terms of ability, that's down to him. From my understanding, wingers are some of the few players who are afforded freedom in the final 3rd under the philosophy and I can see a big difference between him and Martial on the LW which for me comes down to ability.
I believe he will come good. Difficult times he's going through but then again, hardly a player is doing too well this season. He showed recently that he is improving and his attitude also changed
i keep saying this. He's so poor in one on one situations with a defender that I can't see how a change in system will help. No matter how a team plays the winger has to be able to make use of one on one situations.
Alot of things can change with a system change especially when you consider the mess LVG had created (midfielders in defense, defenders taking corners etc). SAF was able to win with a team with a substantial number of technically limited players. Surely Depay can't be worse then frigging Valencia on the flanks.
Id say let give him a season in a stable side with a manager who actually knows what he's doing and see how things would evolve from there.
Valencia game was very simple. Get to the by line and whip in a cross. His blistering pace allowed him to do hat. Memphis game is more complex and requires more technical ability.
Well maybe its time to make his game simpler, by playing him in less intensive games, in a system that actually works and among team mates that can be relied on.
I am not saying that he will surely make it. Only god knows that. However while I firmly believe we need to add more quality in this side I also think that this team (include Memphis but also the likes of Herrera, Bastian, Schneiderlin, Januzaj, Darmian and many others) are much better then they are actually showing on the pitch. I can't blame them for not doing so well under philosophy. FFS I am a spectator and even I struggle to understand what the hell this guy has in mind
I hear you mate I hear you! Although Valencia did start off a beast with unbelievable pace and power with a decent cross on him. He deteriorated into a malfunctioning robot who would just turn back and pass backwards or inside. The few times he got past his man was due to RAW PACE and POWER. Then he would cross poorly, pass inside or backwards after spinning on a spot. Damn it was hard to watch. I can't remember how many games Valencia played RW when we won. The challenge Depay has is that because he doesn't have Tony V physical attributes, he's gotta have insane skill and intelligence like say, a David Silva, to compensate for it. But I see your point, surely he must be able to eclipse a "deteriorated" Tony V on the RW?
There's no guarantees in football. OShea had all the skills (he was tall, strong, gifted with decent technique, a great manager etc) to claim that first team fullback role. It didn't actually worked out for him. There's so many things that can affect talent including homesickness, inability to adapt to a league and the player's attitude. Such thing makes it impossible to be 100% that a players would do it.
Returning to Depay I am confident that if played in a system that works and built around his strengths then Depay can do better. I defended ADM for months because of it and I am saying the same thing about Darmian, Schneiderlin, Herrera and co. Don't take me wrong I see nothing wrong in trimming sides from the dead wood. God knows how many posts and threads I've written about that. However I do believe that ultimately philosophies should be built around the players strength and not the lunacy of some manager. Else we would end up with a player's high turnover year in year out and no stability whatsoever to build on.
I love to use SAF as an example. Do you seriously believe that he wanted to end his career with his team playing the worst football we ever witnessed throughout his entire managerial career? I doubt it. However he had to adapt his system to the players he had. You can't expect to play the way the treble team played with the likes of Cleverley, Valencia and Young in midfield can you?
Hell no!
My point exactly.
LVG's inability in tweaking his philosophy to adapt to the players he have is the main reason why he's failing badly. Unfortunately its a generational thing. I followed some of the finest managers of his generation and most seem to have the same traits (disciplinarians, tactical and extremely stubborn in terms of adapting). They all vanishing from the football that counts or retired (Sacchi, Capello, LVG, Wenger etc)
I was wondering why the greats from the 90's end up lumped into International roles or interim, but are mostly overlooked for the major jobs in favour of the new blood.
With the exception of few people (ex SAF), most have failed to adapt to the modern game. They are old school ie they came from a time where players were mindless pawns and the manager was the chess player. Anything that goes against that concept was severely punished and rejected irrespective of how much talented the player was. Some of the things they did would be considered madness in today's mentality. Players like Mancini and Vialli were left out of Italy world cup team. Players like Baggio and Zola sold because they didn't fit in the manager's philosophy (to be fair Ancelotti learnt his lesson after that) and grifters like Ravanelli who was instrumental for Juventus CL win just few months before was exiled to frigging Middlesbrough because, well, Lippi taught he can find someone better. Can you imagine these quality players being treated that way in the modern game? Can you imagine how today's spoiled players would react to such discipline?
The only blame attached to LVG in Depay's case is signing him and then continuing to play him for no apparent reason.
Didnt play too well, but did well to get 2 assists in 45 min.
Nice freekick for de jong to volleyball into the net and a sneaky corner. Nice two assists but his dribbling, touch and skill in open play was like he performs for United.
Where did that NLMax lad go to?
To the den of football forum shame.
The guy used to post daily essays about Depay. Bizarre.
He simply can't beat players. I don't know if you can coach someone on basic dribbling.
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