[roonster09]

He is having great time, not only goals, his passing and his overall game is just level above now. There is so much movement now, he picks up runners very early from deep and also having fullbacks very high up the pitch is a very good change as there are more passing options.

Very unlucky not to get hat trick.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Very unlucky not to get hat trick.

There was another opportunity earlier, where he passed to Rashford instead of shooting himself and getting the hatrick. Selfish little virus

 

[roonster09]

There was another opportunity earlier, where he passed to Rashford instead of shooting himself and getting the hatrick. Selfish little virus

Yeah, looks like they are having great time on the pitch. Everyone is working hard and covering each other.

 

[Brwned]

So you're agreeing with @Z1L3 but you're also offering an excuse for why Pogba intentionally underperformed.

I think you two are on the same page. So am I, for what it's worth.

I think Pogba downed tools because he didn't like the manager and the manager was doing a bad job. That being said, it showed a lack of respect to the fans. If you're taking home a wage of 300k per week, effort should be the least you provide, regardless of your personality clashes with coworkers.

Don't you at least wonder if it's more complicated than that? Elite sport is all about that extra few %. That's all that seperates the best from the rest. Elite athletes have to have remarkable levels of dedication in so many facets of their life to perform at the top level week in, week out. When you lose that few % it can look like you're playing in a playground but that's because the opposition are just giving that little bit extra. Maybe they're smelling blood and finding an extra gear too.

For me, Hazard's performances for Chelsea in Mourinho's last season were embarrassing. Pogba's performances in the last few games were embarrassing. It's possible that they consciously decided to stop giving a feck and should be held accountable for that. But it's also possible they were just immature and weren't able to keep themselves motivated at 100% in a toxic atmosphere, they just lacked the experience and mental strength to deal with it.

The reason I ask is Hazard hasn't looked anything like that since. Even playing rubbish football in an unhappy dressing room under Conte, there wasn't a hint of that. So maybe he just had a bit more mental fortitude, and maybe the environment Mourinho created was so difficult to deal with, that saying it's Hazard's "fault" is a stretch too far. If he could have gave the fans everything he would have, but he just couldn't.

I think the same is at least possible of Pogba. He might have just dealt with a bad situation badly. He might have consciously gave up playing for the manager. To say we know exactly what happened and why seems a bit presumptuous to me. Our ability to read body language and understand how people think is really not very good.

 

[kouroux]

To the believers that players downed the tools, why did the team bother in games like Newcastle, Southampton, Bournemouth for instance ?

 

[Dante]

Not really. The way I see it: Everyone was miserable, him, his teammates, the staff, the fans(well most of them, not sure about you) even Mourinho. Manchester United as a club was suffering. Pogba risked his own reputation, he knew he would be booed by some of the fans (not me of course), he knew the pundits and journalists would slaughter him in the media. He sacrificed himself to save everyone and finally we can be happy again, even Mourinho. So if you think about it, he must be up there with Jesus. Thank you Paul!

Would you perform the same mental gymnastics to defend Mourinho? Did he lower the mood so as to force his own sacking and help the club?

 

[In Rainbows]

Jose got the sack for that and I'm glad he's gone.

I really like Pogba and want him to become a United legend. But that doesn't mean he's free of blame.

Whilst I definitely don't want Pogba to get the sack the way Mourinho did, I do at least think his actions should be acknowledged for what they were regardless of any excuses. It was unprofessional of him at the very least.

By the way, I don't get why every criticism of Pogba comes back with "Jose was worse". Though I agree, I'm not bothered about Jose because he's not at the club anymore. Stalin was even worse than both, but you don't see me bringing his name up everywhere (apart from here).

The thing is, Pogba is wrongly the poster boy for this criticism. The entire team wasn't performing well apart from de Gea, and even he was getting stick for his distribution and in these last 3 matches his distribution has been good. Was it the toxic atmosphere or was it the manager's negative football? Maybe both. All I know is that Pogba was one of our best players under Mourinho, just that the standard was lower due to the entire side not playing well. People have quickly forgotten all the good performances Pogba had only because of the last 2-3 weeks of Mourinho's tenure.

Rashford is a prime example. Remember how we were discussing Mourinho shaking his head after Rashford missed? We were discussing that because Rashford was not performing well and was low on confidence. All these small instances are quickly forgotten only because they happened in the beginning of the season in comparison to Pogba.

The discussion starts and ends with Mourinho. His football clearly had a negative impact on our players. The group pressing, players making more runs, the quick forward passing, and playing out from the back is clear evidence of the difference in instructions the players receive under Ole. This makes it easier for our players to perform.

I don't understand why you guys think performances are isolated from the manager's instructions.

 

[roonster09]

To the believers that players downed the tools, why did the team bother in games like Newcastle, Southampton, Bournemouth for instance ?

It's all black and white always. Some gave examples of higher work rate to Justify their opinion, if that's downing tools then our players downed tools right from first day of Jose's time as every season we were either 19th or 20th in distance covered.

 

[Red Stone]

Would you perform the same mental gymnastics to defend Mourinho? Did he lower the mood so as to force his own sacking and help the club?

I sincerely believe he was deliberately sabotaging himself to get the sack since the summer, but not to help the club. He wasn't bothered with the job any more and wanted his severance package.

 

[In Rainbows]

It's all black and white always. Some gave examples of higher work rate to Justify their opinion, if that's downing tools then our players downed tools right from first day of Jose's time as every season we were either 19th or 20th in distance covered.

Exactly. Here's an article from last season around November when United were in 2nd place. Were players downing tools then? We were 20th in the PL in distance covered.
https://www.express.co.uk/pictures/...eague-distance-covered-2017-18-sportgalleries

All of this ties back to the manager's instructions. Mourinho did not have his side press collectively like modern sides do. Mourinho did not have United moving around giving more options for his midfielders or attackers. All of the evidence shows Mourinho was the problem and yet we're still having this discussion.

 

[roonster09]

Exactly. Here's an article from last season around November when United were in 2nd place. Were players downing tools then? We were 20th in the PL in distance covered.
https://www.express.co.uk/pictures/...eague-distance-covered-2017-18-sportgalleries

All of this ties back to the manager's instructions. Mourinho did not have his side press collectively like modern sides do. Mourinho did not have United moving around giving more options for his midfielders or attackers. All of the evidence shows Mourinho was the problem and yet we're still having this discussion.

Exactly. Also don't know why people are having go at Pogba, Jose's soldier Matic is playing his best football since he joined the club.

Jose's tactics mean we covered less distance, also we looked like 11 players playing for the first time, whereas now we are playing like a team.

 

[Dante]

The thing is, Pogba is wrongly the poster boy for this criticism. The entire team wasn't performing well apart from de Gea, and even he was getting stick for his distribution and in these last 3 matches his distribution has been good. Was it the toxic atmosphere or was it the manager's negative football? Maybe both. All I know is that Pogba was one of our best players under Mourinho, just that the standard was lower due to the entire side not playing well. People have quickly forgotten all the good performances Pogba had only because of the last 2-3 weeks of Mourinho's tenure.

Rashford is a prime example. Remember how we were discussing Mourinho shaking his head after Rashford missed? We were discussing that because Rashford was not performing well and was low on confidence. All these small instances are quickly forgotten only because they happened in the beginning of the season in comparison to Pogba.

The discussion starts and ends with Mourinho. His football clearly had a negative impact on our players. The group pressing, players making more runs, the quick forward passing, and playing out from the back is clear evidence of the difference in instructions the players receive under Ole. This makes it easier for our players to perform.

I don't understand why you guys think performances are isolated from the manager's instructions.

You don't understand it because you've made it up and now you're struggling with the cognitive dissonance of it all.

 

[Slevs]

Not really. The way I see it: Everyone was miserable, him, his teammates, the staff, the fans(well most of them, not sure about you) even Mourinho. Manchester United as a club was suffering. Pogba risked his own reputation, he knew he would be booed by some of the fans (not me of course), he knew the pundits and journalists would slaughter him in the media. He sacrificed himself to save everyone and finally we can be happy again, even Mourinho. So if you think about it, he must be up there with Jesus. Thank you Paul!

This post deserves to be taken from RAWK. Do you really believe what you just wrote?

Anyways, good performance. I like the late runs into the box. Hope he keeps up the good work.

 

[In Rainbows]

You don't understand it because you've made it up and now you're struggling with the cognitive dissonance of it all.

Please list the downed tools evidence. I take it you're going to bring up Southampton and extrapolate that to all his bad performances.

 

[Roboc7]

He has options around him and ahead of him which makes a huge difference and Herrera and Matic are also passing the ball forward which takes a lot of pressure off of him.

Hopefully he continues getting into the box as he could potentially score a lot of goals.

He is getting a lot of stick from some people for the upturn in form but it’s the same for everyone, if Pogba was letting himself down then so was everyone else. Even a Mourinho loyalist like Matic looks like a different player but Pogba always becomes the focal point.

 

[Posh Red]

Jose got the sack for that and I'm glad he's gone.

I really like Pogba and want him to become a United legend. But that doesn't mean he's free of blame.

Whilst I definitely don't want Pogba to get the sack the way Mourinho did, I do at least think his actions should be acknowledged for what they were regardless of any excuses. It was unprofessional of him at the very least.

By the way, I don't get why every criticism of Pogba comes back with "Jose was worse". Though I agree, I'm not bothered about Jose because he's not at the club anymore. Stalin was even worse than both, but you don't see me bringing his name up everywhere (apart from here).

I take it you feel the same way about Matic then? He seems to be putting in more effort and playing better now. The truth is we had a poor manager previously, not bad players.

 

[Dante]

I take it you feel the same way about Matic then? He seems to be putting in more effort and playing better now. The truth is we had a poor manager previously, not bad players.

All the players need to take a look at themselves. Even Matic agrees.

 

[IronCroos37]

he is becoming our second world class player after De Gea.

 

[balaks]

Has done well done Jose left. I still remain unconvinced he can do it regularly in the longer term but looking good right now.

 

[Jeppers7]

Don't you at least wonder if it's more complicated than that? Elite sport is all about that extra few %. That's all that seperates the best from the rest. Elite athletes have to have remarkable levels of dedication in so many facets of their life to perform at the top level week in, week out. When you lose that few % it can look like you're playing in a playground but that's because the opposition are just giving that little bit extra. Maybe they're smelling blood and finding an extra gear too.

For me, Hazard's performances for Chelsea in Mourinho's last season were embarrassing. Pogba's performances in the last few games were embarrassing. It's possible that they consciously decided to stop giving a feck and should be held accountable for that. But it's also possible they were just immature and weren't able to keep themselves motivated at 100% in a toxic atmosphere, they just lacked the experience and mental strength to deal with it.

The reason I ask is Hazard hasn't looked anything like that since. Even playing rubbish football in an unhappy dressing room under Conte, there wasn't a hint of that. So maybe he just had a bit more mental fortitude, and maybe the environment Mourinho created was so difficult to deal with, that saying it's Hazard's "fault" is a stretch too far. If he could have gave the fans everything he would have, but he just couldn't.

I think the same is at least possible of Pogba. He might have just dealt with a bad situation badly. He might have consciously gave up playing for the manager. To say we know exactly what happened and why seems a bit presumptuous to me. Our ability to read body language and understand how people think is really not very good.

Is it not possible that he just had a few bad games ? He was injured for the city game, poor vs Palace then the Southampton game he was shocking, then he was dropped. Prior to that he'd been one of our best three players this season.

Why are we talking about this now anyway ? Why is this specifically on Pogba ? Read between the lines on all the players, little interviews and quotes, seems the whole club was unhappy and the players weren't enjoying the football they were asked to play.

It's gone from a situation where me and my friends would wonder "who played well today ?????" To now where we are asking "who didn't play well?"

I'm responding to your post simply because you're level headed and reasoned, whereas some of the others who have dragged this into conversation and Jose cultists.

I just don't get the whole Pogba down tools anymore than any of the other players, you could describe his season as inconsistent but then the only consistent players left under Jose were consistently shite. Pogba still played a high percentage of good to outstanding games even before Jose was sacked.

 

[Mr.Ridiculous__]

You sad feckers
When he is not in form he gets stick, when he is just about alright, he gets stick and when is downright World Class...you know the drill.

 

[Brwned]

Is it not possible that he just had a few bad games ? He was injured for the city game, poor vs Palace then the Southampton game he was shocking, then he was dropped. Prior to that he'd been one of our best three players this season.

Why are we talking about this now anyway ? Why is this specifically on Pogba ? Read between the lines on all the players, little interviews and quotes, seems the whole club was unhappy and the players weren't enjoying the football they were asked to play.

It's gone from a situation where me and my friends would wonder "who played well today ?????" To now where we are asking "who didn't play well?"

I'm responding to your post simply because you're level headed and reasoned, whereas some of the others who have dragged this into conversation and Jose cultists.

I just don't get the whole Pogba down tools anymore than any of the other players, you could describe his season as inconsistent but then the only consistent players left under Jose were consistently shite. Pogba still played a high percentage of good to outstanding games even before Jose was sacked.

I think Pogba was our best player this season prior to the last few weeks of Mourinho's reign, so we're not a million miles apart, but I've no interest in trying to dress up Pogba's last few weeks as just poor performances. His head wasn't in it. He's had bad games plenty of times for United which were IMO quite different to those last few weeks. I don't know exactly why that was but I honestly feel that since the summer Mourinho was at war with the stars in the club - in the dressing room and in the board room. Partly because he likes those personal battles and partly because he wanted to be sacked. No-one likes being singled out for blame when it's patently obvious you're not the only (or main) source of blame.

I think it's fair to ask why is Pogba being singled out, but I don't think it's that hard to understand. It might be unfair, but it's understandable. I think Matic's head was gone too, for example. The difference is the gap between his standard performances and his performances then was relatively small, compared to the gap between Pogba's standard performances and his performances then. It is just a reality that Pogba in good shape wins matches for us regularly. Matic can help control games but he'll never come close to being that influential. When the whole team is falling apart you look to your best players and biggest personalities to drag you through. Pogba simply didn't.

In Mourinho's last season I thought much the same about Matic and Hazard. They had both given up in one way or another, but I was sympathetic towards Matic because he just seemed weak and his manager was attacking him. Hazard's response seemed somehow different, somehow more of a betrayal, because he had it within his power to single-handedly turn things around if he could just get his head straight. I just think, on reflection, he genuinely couldn't. Mourinho was able to suck the life out of his teams.

I don't think it's wrong to want your best players to rise above that. I just think it's probably unreasonable to hold it against them. Not every player is Roy Keane. That's a good thing and a bad thing. He can hold a team together singlehandedly when times are tough, but he can also tear a team apart - he did both. I don't think Pogba can do either. Maybe the drama that follows him can tear a team apart, but him as an individual? Nah. He's the kind of character that a happy dressing room really benefits from. He's just shown us that in a sad dressing room he isn't much use.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Pogba has been singled out, because he's Utd's most talented player, and he wasn't able to do a lot of basic things in matches. He dwelled on the ball and lost it in poor positions. He still had moments where you could see his skill set, but the expectation was that he should be so much better. We have seen how good he is in the last few matches.

Our poor performances under Jose are not binary as some of you are arguing - it wasn't Jose OR the players, it was both. It's clear that the players were not playing as well as they can, and were not busting a gut for the manager, he had lost the dressing room.

That doesn't absolve Jose at all, his tactics have been poor, and his man management is from a different era - his methodologies don't work at a club like Utd, or don't work full stop anymore. I'm glad he's gone, and OGS is like a breath of fresh air.

We all need to move on, players get a new start under a new manager. When we play badly, and/ or lose a couple of matches - then the spotlight will be on these players to see if they react differently this time.

 

[K2K]

RAWK are flaming him and Ole at the moment. Never a clearer sign that things are going in the right direction.

You got balls to be reading RAWK at such a time.

 

[Jeffthered]

A super player, playing pretty well. I love it as a United and football fan.

Simple.

 

[freddie the red]

This garbage again.

Sigh

Care to expand on that and actually state what you disagree with or is that too much ti ask?

 

[Cassidy]

My problem with Pogba has never been about the player he could be, it's been more about the player he actually has been these last couple of years and, frankly, he's been a disgrace for most of that time.
For a world record fee and a monumental salary he's spent more time doing his hair, plugging his image, faffing about in midfield, taking too many touches, loosing the ball and falling over claiming to be fouled than actually playing football.
The gap between his potential and his actual performances has been so huge that I'd happily have seen him go at any time up until last Tuesday.
However, if he pulls his finger out and performs to his ability 8 times out of 10 under Ole then what a player we have......time will tell!

Give it a rest

 

[freddie the red]

Post is full of nonsensical drivel.

He hasn’t been a disgrace most of his time here. He’s regularly been one of our better players. the amount of chances he has created that our attack fluffed, especially ibra when he was here, is ridiculous.

Pogba, at the price we got him, was/is a bargain considering the market rate, and no, he hasn’t spent more time doing his hair or plugging his image than playing football. Dinosaurs seems to have an issue with players being happy, popular, extroverts, not to mention that stopping by the barbers is of no significance to on field performances. I don’t know why people regurgitate that, I mean it’s not like he wasn’t getting loud haircuts when he was instrumental at Juve.

He wasn’t performing to his potential here because the team wasn’t performing to its potential. It was a restrictive system with hardly any runs, and players being static, rigid and seemingly afraid, and when the guy said we need to try an attack, he was made a pariah for saying it. The guy was instrumental to a World Cup win only some months back.

At least you took the time and effort to put together a decent response rather than just diss my post, fair play, however, we all have our own opinions and see things our own way and that's mine.

 

[AlexUTD]

Pogba haters / Mourinho defenders sit the feck down.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I sincerely believe he was deliberately sabotaging himself to get the sack since the summer, but not to help the club. He wasn't bothered with the job any more and wanted his severance package.

Agreed.

The way he played mctominay and Matic in a back 3 just shows he’d stopped putting the team first and only cared about his ego and politics with the club.

I was sure that we’d be better once he was sacked, and thankfully they’ve proven me right so far. I’m just gutted he didn’t get sacked sooner!.

 

[Eleven-Eighteen]

Raiola must be smacking his lips at the value Pogba will now command in the transfer market...i have a strong feeling he's still very much looking to get Pogba to move in the summer

 

[BrianMcClair'sBarnet]

Raiola must be smacking his lips at the value Pogba will now command in the transfer market...i have a strong feeling he's still very much looking to get Pogba to move in the summer

Would not surprise me to see Pogba pushing for a move in the summer.

 

[Eleven-Eighteen]

Would not surprise me to see Pogba pushing for a move in the summer.

Me neither. And i think that's sad, because it reveals to me what i really think of Pogba as a person/ team-player (selfish, brash)

That Insta/ Twitter post mocking Mourinho on the day he was sacked was in really poor taste. It takes a certain petulance and arrogance to do something like that

 

[BrianMcClair'sBarnet]

I dont think you necessarily need to be selfish to want to play at a higher level with a higher quality of player.Who can turn down Barca ?
He's in great form for us at present but I feel its all too little too late where we're concerned.

 

[Rafeeq RSA]

Some sad Pogba hating cnuts on here

 

[BrianMcClair'sBarnet]

Some sad Pogba hating cnuts on here

who ?

 

[kouroux]

Our player of the season so far and by some margin

 

[Shark]

who ?

Perhaps the posters above claiming he's selfish and brash, and will push for a move in the summer based on very little evidence.

 

[BrianMcClair'sBarnet]

Perhaps the posters above claiming he's selfish and brash, and will push for a move in the summer based on very little evidence.

I dont agree with the brash as such,though every player needs to be selfish when dealing with their career.
The possible chance of Pogba leaving is just a prediction. Doesn't mean it'll come true.That's hardly 'hating'.

I think Pogba will take into account of what's best for his career after this season.If we finish strongly and finally get a DOF and manager sorted that aligns with a offensive proactive style then Pogba will possibly stay or he may not.
I never thought for one moment Pogba would be here long-term,much in the same case as Ronaldo.But again that's just a hunch. Pogba may go on and be here for his peak years.

 

[Janson]

Don't you at least wonder if it's more complicated than that? Elite sport is all about that extra few %. That's all that seperates the best from the rest. Elite athletes have to have remarkable levels of dedication in so many facets of their life to perform at the top level week in, week out. When you lose that few % it can look like you're playing in a playground but that's because the opposition are just giving that little bit extra. Maybe they're smelling blood and finding an extra gear too.

For me, Hazard's performances for Chelsea in Mourinho's last season were embarrassing. Pogba's performances in the last few games were embarrassing. It's possible that they consciously decided to stop giving a feck and should be held accountable for that. But it's also possible they were just immature and weren't able to keep themselves motivated at 100% in a toxic atmosphere, they just lacked the experience and mental strength to deal with it.

The reason I ask is Hazard hasn't looked anything like that since. Even playing rubbish football in an unhappy dressing room under Conte, there wasn't a hint of that. So maybe he just had a bit more mental fortitude, and maybe the environment Mourinho created was so difficult to deal with, that saying it's Hazard's "fault" is a stretch too far. If he could have gave the fans everything he would have, but he just couldn't.

I think the same is at least possible of Pogba. He might have just dealt with a bad situation badly. He might have consciously gave up playing for the manager. To say we know exactly what happened and why seems a bit presumptuous to me. Our ability to read body language and understand how people think is really not very good.

That's the thing though, we can't know which it is. Maybe he didn't have the strength to deal with the situation or he conciously was sabotaging. The question is, what happens if things go badly under the new manager. If the same thing happens with Pogba, I'm guessing there will be a much bigger backlash towards him since that manager probably won't behave anything close to how Mourinho has.