The Race for Fourth Place

ZIDANE

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I'd rather Arsenal got fourth.

The reason is because I don't think Everton will get anywhere in the Champions League whilst Arsenal are still a good team on their day. I'd rather see better quality teams in the CL.
 

Red For Ever

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Beat City, and I reckon we can take 4th from Arsenal. End of season collapse will commence

I wish !!! we need to win all our games, while Tottenham lose at least one game ( possible ) and Everton lose 3 of the last six, and Arsenal lose 3 from the last 5 ( unlikely, but not impossible )

Edit : In addition if Man City, Chelsea and Liverpool lose all the remaining games, and we win all our games by enough to overtake the Chelsea goal difference we are champions.
 
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DOTA

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For years Arsenal have been threatening to not make the top four, before finally getting it together. This year, they've threatened to challenge for the title, before falling apart and now have every chance of not making the top four...
 

rcoobc

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I wish !!! we need to win all our games, while Tottenham lose at least one game ( possible ) and Everton lose 3 of the last six, and Arsenal lose 3 from the last 5 ( unlikely, but not impossible )

Edit : In addition if Man City, Chelsea and Liverpool lose all the remaining games, and we win all our games by enough to overtake the Chelsea goal difference we are champions.
I'm confused but I said that ages ago. :(
 

starman

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Given how bad we have been, I would be amazed if we got 4th and finished less than 10 points behind the eventual winners.
 

Red Shorts

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Given how bad we have been, I would be amazed if we got 4th and finished less than 10 points behind the eventual winners.
The amazing thing is, this could very well happen now, and makes you wonder where we could have been had we even managed to scrape at least one or two better results in some of our games?
 

amolbhatia50k

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Given how bad we have been, I would be amazed if we got 4th and finished less than 10 points behind the eventual winners.
Not happening.

Everton though, can really do it if they have big performances against us and city.
 

RustyS

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I really hope Everton get top 4 for two reasons: the smugness of Arsenal fans when they were top of the table for so long and the irony of missing out on Wenger's favourite trophy (top 4) when they finally win an actual trophy (FA cup).
 

starman

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The amazing thing is, this could very well happen now, and makes you wonder where we could have been had we even managed to scrape at least one or two better results in some of our games?
It could happen, and even though Everton could be 9 points clear of us after their game in hand, however i think we have a decent chance of catching them, given their run in. Arsenal however, although they have done their typical end of season crumble, not getting the appropriate amount of points from their remaining games is beyond previous their self destruct missions.
 
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Rozay

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Very annoying. Although every one in the media thought we were dead and buried I was saying before the Liverpool game that is we won our next 3 I was certain we would make 4th. Now looking at the table we can see that we have taken ourselves out of it more recently than many though we did.

Those ridiculous performances against Liverpool and City are what have cost us.
 

crappycraperson

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:lol:

We are officially turning into Liverpool fans. They went on about mathematical chances of getting 4th or winning the title all the time despite actually considering how their team was playing. One ok and one good result and suddenly we are in the hunt for 4th again. Jeez, buy a clue.
 

Alex99

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0.0000000000000000000000001% chance that you get 4th. It's not happening.
Why are you so certain about this? Arsenal are in free fall and there are plenty of opportunities for Everton to slip up. It's unlikely to happen, but it's by no means unrealistic to suggest that United might nick 4th.
 

Blasphemy

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Why are you so certain about this? Arsenal are in free fall and there are plenty of opportunities for Everton to slip up. It's unlikely to happen, but it's by no means unrealistic to suggest that United might nick 4th.
Nah, it's really unrealistic. Arsenal won't lose 3 of their last 6 against the teams they're playing.
 

SirAF

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I'd rather Arsenal got fourth.

The reason is because I don't think Everton will get anywhere in the Champions League whilst Arsenal are still a good team on their day. I'd rather see better quality teams in the CL.

Pppfft.
 

Alex99

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Nah, it's really unrealistic. Arsenal won't lose 3 of their last 6 against the teams they're playing.
Arsenal haven't won in their last 4 and have only won 2 of their last 7, picking up just 8 points from a possible 21. Why is it too unreasonable to think that they'll drop unexpected points when they've got to go to Hull and still have to play 2 relegation fighters? Everton have to play us and City, as well as a couple of relegation fighters, and Spurs are Spurs. It's going to take a bit of fecking up from others, yes, but it's not like Arsenal are in great form, Everton have an easy run-in and Spurs aren't Spurs.
 

crappycraperson

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It is unrealistic because United won't be winning all of their remaining games. We have not shown even glimpse of that kind of form throughout the season. Another pressure game and we will stumble.
 

Sandikan

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:lol:

We are officially turning into Liverpool fans. They went on about mathematical chances of getting 4th or winning the title all the time despite actually considering how their team was playing. One ok and one good result and suddenly we are in the hunt for 4th again. Jeez, buy a clue.

all we need to have completely switched places with them, is talking about a league conspiracy and their manager buying refs.

It's been shocking.

Arsenal will still make the champs league. Which is probably better than Everton, as otherwise, we'll have a further wave of abuse at Moyes, for how much Martinez has taken them on blah blah.
Whereas if they finish 5th, they finished 6th last year, so hardly a monstrous final change.
 

Alex99

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It is unrealistic because United won't be winning all of their remaining games. We have not shown even glimpse of that kind of form throughout the season. Another pressure game and we will stumble.
If United beat Everton I see no reason why they can't go on to beat everyone else. Our recent from against the sides below us suggests we should beat them all reasonably comfortably. We've lost two of our last 9 (versus City & Liverpool), and you have to go back to the Arsenal and Fulham games to find draws. We've beaten everyone else pretty comfortably.

Arsenal have won 2 of their last 7, but haven't won any of their last 4. Out of their last 7, they've lost to Stoke, been battered by Chelsea and Everton, and drawn with City and Swansea.

Everton have it all to lose in my opinion. Arsenal are in poor form and Everton are in good form, a point behind, with a game in hand. However, they've got the hardest run-in, having to play both United and City.

Spurs look good for dropping points at any time.

Whilst United are by no means the favourites, a win against Everton and a couple of entirely feasibly slip ups by other teams could see them steal 4th.
 

crappycraperson

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If United beat Everton I see no reason why they can't go on to beat everyone else. Our recent from against the sides below us suggests we should beat them all reasonably comfortably. We've lost two of our last 9 (versus City & Liverpool), and you have to go back to the Arsenal and Fulham games to find draws. We've beaten everyone else pretty comfortably.

Arsenal have won 2 of their last 7, but haven't won any of their last 4. Out of their last 7, they've lost to Stoke, been battered by Chelsea and Everton, and drawn with City and Swansea.

Everton have it all to lose in my opinion. Arsenal are in poor form and Everton are in good form, a point behind, with a game in hand. However, they've got the hardest run-in, having to play both United and City.

Spurs look good for dropping points at any time.

Whilst United are by no means the favourites, a win against Everton and a couple of entirely feasibly slip ups by other teams could see them steal 4th.
We will see. You can always draw up such scenarios. Some were still going on about winning the title even in December.
 

Sandikan

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wow, are we really doing this to ourselves about 4th place :rolleyes:

we can win 15 points, and Arsenal are 7 ahead. We'd need them to only win 2 of their 5 and draw 1. Have you seen their fixtures?

And this is if Everton drop off too!

Everton best not beat City, as otherwise Pool are well away
 

sun_tzu

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wow, are we really doing this to ourselves about 4th place :rolleyes:

we can win 15 points, and Arsenal are 7 ahead. We'd need them to only win 2 of their 5 and draw 1. Have you seen their fixtures?

And this is if Everton drop off too!

Everton best not beat City, as otherwise Pool are well away
Actually if we won all our games which would include a win against everton (who also have city to play) and we already have a better gd than arsenal we could in theory be ok with them getting 8 points
2 wins 2 draws and a loss is not impossible... though im far from convinced we will win the next five
 

Cina

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I think Everton coming 4th will be the biggest indicator of Moyes' chances of succeeding here in a nutshell. Just inexplicable.
Well that's crazy really, if how previous clubs were doing the next season was the indicator, Liverpool should've thrown Rodgers out at the end of last season.
 

Danny1982

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I genuinely thought this thread was bumped to discuss the Arsenal-Everton race for fourth place. People are actually discussing "us" getting into fourth place?!

Arsenal will be fourth end of. Their remaining games are p*ss easy and they will overtake Everton eventually. It's the same story every year.
 

Smores

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I think Everton coming 4th will be the biggest indicator of Moyes' chances of succeeding here in a nutshell. Just inexplicable.
Evertons results have nothing to do with, you do remember he had them at 4th before?

I still think we'll finish closer to the top than 18 points which is where Fergie had us during our last major transition.

4th is out of reach for us now but we wont be far off.
 

Red Shorts

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Well that's crazy really, if how previous clubs were doing the next season was the indicator, Liverpool should've thrown Rodgers out at the end of last season.
:lol: So Swansea leaping from 11th to 9th after their first PL season is comparable to Everton's ten under Moyes, and in a season where the gap in the top 4 is closer than it has been for ages?
 

Cina

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:lol: So Swansea leaping from 11th to 9th after their first PL season is comparable to Everton's ten under Moyes, and in a season where the gap in the top 4 is closer than it has been for ages?
Where the clubs are isn't the issue, it's the idea that because Everton are doing better this season than under Moyes last season, that it should be taken into account for us getting rid of Moyes that makes no sense to me.
 

Red Shorts

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Where the clubs are isn't the issue, it's the idea that because Everton are doing better this season than under Moyes last season, that it should be taken into account for us getting rid of Moyes that makes no sense to me.
Ok, let me explain myself in more detail rather than go on analyzing my brief statement, because it didn't explain anything really.

I didn't imply that on the basis of both our performance and on Everton's performance in the table this season, that we should use this as evidence to sack Moyes; the point I was trying to make was that this is worrying evidence for our future, when he has taken a championship winning squad from 11 points ahead of next place last season to 17 points behind 1st place this season, whereas Everton have been 10 points off of 4th at least for the previous 5 seasons and now are challenging for top four in one of the closest and most competitive top fours we have seen in ages.

The evidence for me wanting him sacked goes towards our difficulties alone, and I don't think twice about using Everton's performance as an indicator that he should go. It should however show how the careful selection of the right management, who has the right mentality to succeed at the club they have been appointed at could do wonders. Martinez showed glimpses of what he could do at a higher level when he was at Wigan, when he and his team showed great defiance 2 seasons ago to beat relegation in one of the best resurgences I have seen in football, and taking Wigan to victory in the FA cup last year was nothing short of inspiring. These are the types of managers the top teams want, who show they want to win at all costs, even when their team has the odds favoured against them. He gets given the chance to manage Everton, gets given exactly the same amount of time as Moyes to sort the club out, yet manages to make three key signings in the summer to massively improve the team(2 of those signings would have been well received here too in the form of Lukaku and McCarthy).

The interview by Osman pretty much sums up how most of us feel about Moyes' appointment here, how he has tried to "make United hard to beat" as he did with Everton, rather than do what inspiring managers do and make the players believe they can go anywhere in the world and beat them, which is what Martinez has done. It's the belief that has been installed in Everton to make top 4, with the contrast of us praying for a turnaround that has got me being lost for words. Hope that explains things better.
 

fishfingers15

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YESHHHHH, We'll GOOO for it.
Even though Everton has proven to be a tough opponent in the past, this would be a really embarrassing defeat for Moyes.
It has nothing to do with Moyes, Everton are playing well, top of their game and confidence. They've beaten Arsenal convincingly and Goodison Park is a bit of a fortress now. Even though we've done well away, Everton are right now a top 4 team and we have Bayern game midweek. Even under Fergie, we've struggled after tough midweek European games. Expectation of 4th is impossible, if we get it, it's fine but we will be totally reliant on other results going out way.
 

Ubik

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Evertons results have nothing to do with, you do remember he had them at 4th before?
They were 3 points above Bolton that season. Just saying.

I really think Everton are going to do this. Arsenal have the easier run in, yeah, but in any title fight I'd rather have had the form than the easier games. They have confidence and are playing really well.

Ridiculous really that we're not in the fight.