Although Rooney isn't half the player he was and some games he has been dross, he is still vastly underrated on here and treated unfairly. If it were Herrera who scored 15 goals last season (with the quality of finishes such as Newcastle away, Swansea home, and goals as big as the winner at anfield)..people would be completely jizzing over him....he would be a hero.
It's just that with the decline of form from previous years seen first hand and the double transfer request, he is a scapegoat on here. People are also probably sick of him - having seen him playing for so long and turn into a much less thrilling player, they turn on him. He is still an experienced player worth keeping 100%.
Fwiw I believe he'll have a good season. He performs better when he is not the main man and it is likely to be the case this season.
I've never bought into the excuses of poor management. If Jose tries to built the team around him like the previous two, his performances won't be any different to the last 3 years.
Hopefully Jose sides with the non match going fans on this one.
Although Rooney isn't half the player he was and some games he has been dross, he is still vastly underrated on here and treated unfairly. If it were Herrera who scored 15 goals last season (with the quality of finishes such as Newcastle away, Swansea home, and goals as big as the winner at anfield)..people would be completely jizzing over him....he would be a hero.
It's just that with the decline of form from previous years seen first hand and the double transfer request, he is a scapegoat on here. People are also probably sick of him - having seen him playing for so long and turn into a much less thrilling player, they turn on him. He is still an experienced player worth keeping 100%.
Is Herrera not a CM? That's phenomenal numbers for a CM.
I believe Rooney was our lead striker for half the season, a position he had to vacate because as daft as LVG was he knew the fans weren't gonna accept Rashford making way on his return from injury.
Have to agree with the point that to play him we have to adjust the team around and play players in a formation and in positions they're not at their best at. Frankly he's just not good enough to warrant such a thing. I hope once Jose realises he's finished he changes to 433 and we can finally move forward as a club.
Is Herrera not a CM? That's phenomenal numbers for a CM.
I believe Rooney was our lead striker for half the season, a position he had to vacate because as daft as LVG was he knew the fans weren't gonna accept Rashford making way on his return from injury.
It's true, Rooney played as a 9 for at least half of the season. And players like Alli and Wijnaldum scored 10+ goals in the Premier League as midfielders for example.
Hasn't even kicked a ball in pre-season yet and this thread is already four pages of drivel about who can proclaim his grotesque shite'ness the hardest. Classic.
I guess, I do something similar. I always wear a vest underneath if I'm playing football wearing a football shirt, to prevent nipple burn. Would probably be fine now, but those Sunday league shirts I used to wear when I was younger were uncomfortable as feck.
Hasn't even kicked a ball in pre-season yet and this thread is already four pages of drivel about who can proclaim his grotesque shite'ness the hardest. Classic.
no no no, that was hodgsons fault, just like his atrocious 2015 was lvg fault, and when he goes missing for a large part of the coming season it will be joses fault etc etc
You lot seriously.. I fell out with my old man for months over how much I criticised Rooney over the first half of last season, but some of you lot are making me feel like a giddy Rooney fanboy in comparisson.
He's going to start as no.10, for Mourinho, it seems pretty nailed on at this point, regardless if you or I like it or not, he's shown over the 2nd half of last year he does still have some fight left in him, could we not try to retain a hint of positivity in the hope he can still deliver to an acceptable extent? or are we just going to carry on bashing him over and over for the next several weeks?
You lot seriously.. I fell out with my old man for months over how much I criticised Rooney over the first half of last season, but some of you lot are making me feel like a giddy Rooney fanboy in comparisson.
He's going to start as no.10, for Mourinho, it seems pretty nailed on at this point, regardless if you or I like it or not, he's shown over the 2nd half of last year he does still have some fight left in him, could we not try to retain a hint of positivity in the hope he can still deliver to an acceptable extent? or are we just going to carry on bashing him over and over for the next several weeks?
He was woeful for us, did nothing to prove that he won't continue to be woeful, is in his 30's and everything he's said has been an attempt to blame someone else. The only positive we have is that he won't be stinking up the midfield. Why pretend the last few years haven't happened or find someone to blame so we can be let down again? There comes a point when you just feel like an idiot for having faith in someone that you know is going to let you down.
It's things like this that would hinder the club from moving forward. It's like fans enjoy hugging history while the world passes by. Raul of Real, Xavi of Barcelona, Del Piero of Juventus; bigger legends and better players at clubs that essentially raised them did not have to retire there. When these players left their respective clubs, they were still performing at a higher level at Rooney in their mid thirties. These clubs have moved on replaced these legends and are way ahead of United footballing wise.
The right, If he wants? What the heck does that mean. Do we support Wayne Rooney or United? Because of what he has done? Why don't we keep Rio, Nev, Brown et al, they were part of United's golden era and by that should stay here!
A player should be at the club as long as he is actively helping the club progress on the pitch not just because of what he has done in the past like they did it for free and out of their generosity, the kindness of their heart and their undying love for the club.
It's like this thread is about a Liverpool player. Watching all the Rooney bashers backing each other to the hill is cringeworthy as feck. He is here to stay and win many more trophies with the club, under the guidance of Jose Mourinho.
It's like this thread is about a Liverpool player. Watching all the Rooney bashers backing each other to the hill is cringeworthy as feck. He is here to stay and win many more trophies with the club, under the guidance of Jose Mourinho.
Look, my friend - in the previous few pages, I have explained myself thoroughly when a bunch of fellow United supporters felt the need to get on my back for sharing my honest opinion.
I don't mind people thinking he is past it because that's what a forum is for - sharing different opinions. But I just can't comprehend why is there a need to show so much disrespect to him? Even Gerrard doesn't get that kind of bad reception on here nowadays.
Look, my friend - in the previous few pages, I have explained myself thoroughly when a bunch of fellow United supporters felt the need to get on my back for sharing my honest opinion.
I don't mind people thinking he is past it because that's what a forum is for - sharing different opinions. But I just can't comprehend why is there a need to show so much disrespect to him? Even Gerrard doesn't get that kind of bad reception on here nowadays.
Really? Did you know how much stick Gerrard got? You're either being too sentimental or just too emotional about it. We give opinions but the majority are being disrespectful because they are saying what is clear and obvious? Neville got sick, Rio got stick, Vidic got stick and Evra got stick, all for not playing well despite their past and legendary status. They were not exempted from criticism neither should Rooney be. The only difference is that Rooney has hung around far longer than the others. It's been a 4 year decline and we've had to put up with it.
Although Rooney isn't half the player he was and some games he has been dross, he is still vastly underrated on here and treated unfairly. If it were Herrera who scored 15 goals last season
I notice that the Rooney fans love to bump up his goal tally, by using goals scored against the likes of Bruge.
He scored 8 league goals.
8 league goals in a full season, is embarrassing.
For comparison, Rashford (who played fewer games and is an 18 yr old kid), scored 5 league goals.
Because of LVG's trust in Rooney, LVG got sacked, due to our non-goal scoring.
I do agree that Herrera is over-rated. In 2 full seasons he has done nothing of note. Absolutely nothing. But lets not use Herrera to hide the deficiencies of Rooney.
And getting back to goal tallies, lets go through a full list of players who scored 8 or more league goals. Galacticos such as Troy Deeney, André Ayew, Marko Arnautović amongst others, all scored more goals than Mr Rooney.
To recap, Kane was top goal scorer. Rooney was ranked 27. YES: 27th highest goal scorer last season.
And here's the list, for anybody interested:
1.Harry Kane England England Tottenham Hotspur 25 (5)
2. Kun Agüero Argentina Argentina Manchester City 24 (4)
Jamie Vardy England England Leicester City 24 (5)
4. Romelu Lukaku Belgium Belgium Everton FC 18 (1)
5. Riyad Mahrez Algeria Algeria Leicester City 17 (4)
6. Olivier Giroud France France Arsenal FC 16 (1)
Odion Ighalo Nigeria Nigeria Watford FC 16 (0)
8. Jermain Defoe England England Sunderland AFC 15 (1)
9. Troy Deeney England England Watford FC 13 (6)
Alexis Sánchez Chile Chile Arsenal FC 13 (0)
11. André Ayew Ghana Ghana Swansea City Swansea City 12 (0)
Diego Costa Spain Spain Chelsea FC Chelsea FC 12 (0)
13. Marko Arnautović Austria Austria Stoke City Stoke City 11 (3)
Sadio Mané Senegal Senegal Southampton FC Southampton FC 11 (0)
Anthony Martial France France Manchester United Manchester United 11 (0)
Graziano Pellè Italy Italy Southampton FC Southampton FC 11 (0)
Gylfi Sigurðsson Iceland Iceland Swansea City Swansea City 11 (3)
Georginio Wijnaldum Netherlands Netherlands Newcastle United Newcastle United 11 (1)
19. Dele Alli England England Tottenham Hotspur Tottenham Hotspur 10 (0)
Shane Long Ireland Ireland Southampton FC Southampton FC 10 (0)
Roberto Firmino Brazil Brazil Liverpool FC Liverpool FC 10 (0)
22. Christian Benteke Belgium Belgium Liverpool FC Liverpool FC 9 (1)
Andy Carroll England England West Ham United West Ham United 9 (1)
Aleksandar Mitrović Serbia Serbia Newcastle United Newcastle United 9 (2)
Dimitri Payet France France West Ham United West Ham United 9 (0)
Salomón Rondón Venezuela Venezuela West Bromwich Albion West Bromwich Albion 9 (0)
27. Michail Antonio England England West Ham United West Ham United 8 (0)
Ross Barkley England England Everton FC Everton FC 8 (2)
Coutinho Brazil Brazil Liverpool FC Liverpool FC 8 (0)
Kelechi Iheanacho Nigeria Nigeria Manchester City Manchester City 8 (0)
Wayne Rooney England England Manchester United Manchester United 8 (1)
Daniel Sturridge England England Liverpool FC Liverpool FC 8 (0)
Dušan Tadić Serbia Serbia Southampton FC Southampton FC 8 (1)
I saw some people laughing at Juve paying £90M for Higuain. I would kill to have 36 league goals per season Higuain in our team.
Rooney can take his 8 goals/season and shove em where the Sun don't shine.
People want Rooney to be 'put in his place' due to his football. But also, equally as much, just because they don't like the guy.
There are many who've never liked him - even when he was banging them in, and they're now delighted that he's now given them 'reasons' to criticize him.
There's this weird tone among fans, as if Rooney himself hyped himself up as some sort of Messi-level football god, and held guns to people's heads until they paid him mega-wages. When actually any sense of entitlement he has is due to the media, United themselves, and the general public who place big-name footballers on pedestals.
Last season was funny. People were getting mad at Rooney for having the audacity to play when being picked. Not his fault the club chose to pay him silly wages, and not his fault he's picked every week.
And if he's looking out for himself only - good on him. It's a ruthless industry. He owes nothing to United, the fans or anyone else.
I actually do like him.
When he came to us as an 18 year old, he played with power and pace. The best description would be a hurricane. He scored a hat-trick in his first CL game.
People want Rooney to be 'put in his place' due to his football. But also, equally as much, just because they don't like the guy.
There are many who've never liked him - even when he was banging them in, and they're now delighted that he's now given them 'reasons' to criticize him.
There's this weird tone among fans, as if Rooney himself hyped himself up as some sort of Messi-level football god, and held guns to people's heads until they paid him mega-wages. When actually any sense of entitlement he has is due to the media, United themselves, and the general public who place big-name footballers on pedestals.
Last season was funny. People were getting mad at Rooney for having the audacity to play when being picked. Not his fault the club chose to pay him silly wages, and not his fault he's picked every week.
And if he's looking out for himself only - good on him. It's a ruthless industry. He owes nothing to United, the fans or anyone else.
Yet all of that wouldn't matter to Utd fans if he was producing the goods on the pitch, which he is not so he absolutely deserves the sustained criticism (on his performances).
Look, my friend - in the previous few pages, I have explained myself thoroughly when a bunch of fellow United supporters felt the need to get on my back for sharing my honest opinion.
I don't mind people thinking he is past it because that's what a forum is for - sharing different opinions. But I just can't comprehend why is there a need to show so much disrespect to him? Even Gerrard doesn't get that kind of bad reception on here nowadays.
Yes, he's a bit frumpy, pale, and not good-looking. And he says 'umm' too many times when he talks.
Yes, he's in it for himself (who isn't in the football world?) and wanted huge wages to match his huge profile.
Yes, he's allowed the mass media hype/attention get to his head (to what extent, we actually have no idea - because we don't know him)
Oh yeah, and he cheated on his partner, like a number of footballers, including golden boy Martial.
But what tangible reasons are there for people who've never met him to dislike him?
Yes, he's a bit frumpy, pale, and not good-looking. And he says 'umm' too many times when he talks.
Yes, he's in it for himself (who isn't in the football world?) and wanted huge wages to match his huge profile.
Yes, he's allowed the mass media hype/attention get to his head (to what extent, we actually have no idea - because we don't know him)
Oh yeah, and he cheated on his partner, like a number of footballers, including golden boy Martial.
But what tangible reasons are there for people who've never met him to dislike him?
I don't care for his actions off the pitch to be fair, he's a football player. What I do care about is the fact that he has held the club ransom not once, but twice for his own benefit. He is our highest earner yet has movement as restricted as a pile of rocks and lastly shoe-horning him into the side stops the club from moving forward. Tactics have to be chopped and changed just to fit in a player who's past it. That's why I dislike him.
I don't care for his actions off the pitch to be fair, he's a football player. What I do care about is the fact that he has held the club ransom not once, but twice for his own benefit. He is our highest earner yet has movement as restricted as a pile of rocks and lastly shoe-horning him into the side stops the club from moving forward. Tactics have to be chopped and changed just to fit in a player who's past it. That's why I dislike him.
'Held the club ransom' is an extreme way of wording things.
The world is full of footballers. The club were able to refuse his demands. It wasn't life or death. It wasn't threatening the livelihood of thousands or millions.
If the club thought he was worth it, and he knew his importance to the club, why shouldn't he ask for more money? The club had a great period on and off the field - why shouldn't he have wanted an increased piece of the pie he helped make?
Relatively short career; he has a growing family; he owes nothing to United. Football contracts are beneficial to both parties, and clubs have no issues dropping players when they're no longer needed. United set a precedent when they made him the most expensive teenager ever, and paid him huge wages from the off.
As for the rest of your reasons... blame the guys who allow all that to happen. The guys who play him and the guys who pay him.
Life would be great if everyone who wasn't good at their job decided to leave (or take a pay cut) for the good of the company. But it's not how things work.
If 'holding the club ransom' has earned Rooney and extra 10-20 million by the end of his career, he's done well. He's not a United fan and United haven't done him any favours.
I think we'll allow him to get the goal record here, which will be an incredible achievement, but Jose will begin to phase him out before the end of the season.
'Held the club ransom' is an extreme way of wording things.
The world is full of footballers. The club were able to refuse his demands. It wasn't life or death. It wasn't threatening the livelihood of thousands or millions.
If the club thought he was worth it, and he knew his importance to the club, why shouldn't he ask for more money? The club had a great period on and off the field - why shouldn't he have wanted an increased piece of the pie he helped make?
Relatively short career; he has a growing family; he owes nothing to United. Football contracts are beneficial to both parties, and clubs have no issues dropping players when they're no longer needed. United set a precedent when they made him the most expensive teenager ever, and paid him huge wages from the off.
As for the rest of your reasons... blame the guys who allow all that to happen. The guys who play him and the guys who pay him.
Life would be great if everyone who wasn't good at their job decided to leave (or take a pay cut) for the good of the company. But it's not how things work.
If 'holding the club ransom' has earned Rooney and extra 10-20 million by the end of his career, he's done well. He's not a United fan and United haven't done him any favours.
I don't care for his actions off the pitch to be fair, he's a football player. What I do care about is the fact that he has held the club ransom not once, but twice for his own benefit. He is our highest earner yet has movement as restricted as a pile of rocks and lastly shoe-horning him into the side stops the club from moving forward. Tactics have to be chopped and changed just to fit in a player who's past it. That's why I dislike him.
So .. He held the club to ransom.... While on the pitch?..
Anyway, I am just going to ignore the drivel and try and spark some sensible discussion. I am curious to see how Jose uses him at #10. It makes complete sense to use him as a second striker like he used to use Lampard. When Chelsea would put the pressure on from the wider areas Tiago/Ballack would stay forward during to allow Lampard to play from the edge of the area and get into scoring positions.
I think that Martial and Mitki are going to put him in a lot of scoring positions this season. Especially with Zlatan leading the line and being able to attack the box as well. Martial especially will be going past his man and cutting back a lot for whoever is on the edge of the area to have a shot on goal. This is probably the realistic way I see Rooney scoring a lot of his goals or getting assists off the second pass.
He'll drop in and support midfield when we don't have the ball and be able to start attacks with diagonal passes then arrive late on the edge of the area. Logically speaking I think this is the only way he can really be effective. He can't hold the ball up at the #9 position because he's never been good at it, he probably doesn't have the speed and direct ball-playing ability to create on the wings and there is really zero point in playing him 60 yards from goal the entire game where he is pretending to be a midfielder.
Look, my friend - in the previous few pages, I have explained myself thoroughly when a bunch of fellow United supporters felt the need to get on my back for sharing my honest opinion.
I don't mind people thinking he is past it because that's what a forum is for - sharing different opinions. But I just can't comprehend why is there a need to show so much disrespect to him? Even Gerrard doesn't get that kind of bad reception on here nowadays.
You haven't explained yourself thoroughly, you've been asked three times if you actually watched us regularly the last few years and have yet to answer it. Now you're playing the victim card saying people felt the need to get on your back when it was you that tried to belittle other people's opinions with talk of random posters on a forum, salty, bitter and delusional comments because they dared to not feel the way you do.
What do you want people to say to show him respect while feeling he is past it? You seem to want to live in a fantasy land where the past never happened and we just pretend he's that kid full of potential. He's not, he's the man that kid grew up to be and like it or not the good he's done for us doesn't wipe away the disrespect he's shown the club nor his current hindrance to it and people are going to have different levels of tolerance/forgiveness. You can cling to your happy memories all you want, but you can't force other people to accept your delusion when they watch him fail to deliver week after week.
You talk about him having the right to retire here and that he should be shown respect like his interests are above the clubs. It's football, you only have the right to anything if you're performing.
It was a decision pushed by a terrible manger who was a goner after 10ish months, I am not sure defending that decision by saying that people from the club decided he is good enough to earn that much is some greatest argument one can make tbf.
He is finished, everybody knows it but nobody is bold enough to tell him. He himself knows he is now done but can't accept it since he is relatively not that old.
He is like a Yorke round the neck of the club and I believe the struggle for Pogba is not only for footballing reasons but someone who will be the new face of the club.
It was a decision pushed by a terrible manger who was a goner after 10ish months, I am not sure defending that decision by saying that people from the club decided he is good enough to earn that much is some greatest argument one can make tbf.
And the first time? (The post I responded to mentioned holding the club to ransom twice)
I'm not sure what you mean by the second bit, but being offered huge wages (that he may/may not deserve) isn't a reason to dislike Rooney.
People are yet to come up with any decent reasons for disliking him.
And the first time? (The post I responded to mentioned holding the club to ransom twice)
I'm not sure what you mean by the second bit, but being offered huge wages (that he may/may not deserve) isn't a reason to dislike Rooney.
People are yet to come up with any decent reasons for disliking him.
It's not like it was ever denied that he forced the clubs hand. Using an interest from City and Chelsea as leverage in contract negotiations is never going to sit well with United fans. Granted he may not even love United but definitely warrants not being liked by some.
'Held the club ransom' is an extreme way of wording things.
The world is full of footballers. The club were able to refuse his demands. It wasn't life or death. It wasn't threatening the livelihood of thousands or millions.
If the club thought he was worth it, and he knew his importance to the club, why shouldn't he ask for more money? The club had a great period on and off the field - why shouldn't he have wanted an increased piece of the pie he helped make?
Relatively short career; he has a growing family; he owes nothing to United. Football contracts are beneficial to both parties, and clubs have no issues dropping players when they're no longer needed. United set a precedent when they made him the most expensive teenager ever, and paid him huge wages from the off.
As for the rest of your reasons... blame the guys who allow all that to happen. The guys who play him and the guys who pay him.
Life would be great if everyone who wasn't good at their job decided to leave (or take a pay cut) for the good of the company. But it's not how things work.
If 'holding the club ransom' has earned Rooney and extra 10-20 million by the end of his career, he's done well. He's not a United fan and United haven't done him any favours.
Threatening to leave your job because you're not being paid enough is holding them ransom. This is above all a business, whether or not the club values him enough doesn't concern the fans. Considering the club chose Moyes to replace SAF illustrates that their decisions are not always the wisest ones. Whether or not he's threatening anyone isn't a relevant argument as ransom is subjective, it doesn't always have to involve the extreme.
He's not likeable as he used his status in the club as a bargaining tool in his excessive wages. Of course it's completely reasonable for him to milk as much as he can from the club, doesn't make any of it a likeable trait.
I do blame them, we need a manager with balls to realise he's a has-been on excessive wages. You'd be clutching at straws to believe half the drivel he spouts to try and justify his extreme drop in performances, it's obvious he knows as much as anyone how far he's fallen. What did Neville, Vidic, Ferdinand etc. do in similiar situations? Left or retired. What is Rooney still doing? Blaming everyone and their nan for why isn't he performing, while also changing his supposed preferred position every interview.
He has done well in milking money, but his wages is nothing short of theft atm. He is earning much more than players triple his talent and productivity, so I agree he's done very well. A thief could rob a bank and do well for himself, doesn't make anything he's done acceptable though.
He's a washed up midfield-attacker hybrid, who's lost the pace and drive that once made him such a great player, who now is holding the club back by forcing us to play to his 'strengths' while he's earning money he just isn't worth anymore.
'On the pitch' aka in relation to football based issues. I don't care for any footballer's personal lives and what they get up to as long as it's not toxic to their footballing career, obviously.
It's never his fault in your eyes. The man can smokes and eat junk food comes back fat and it's still someone else's fault.
In any business you either perform or you're shoved aside. Taking a massive salary and not performing will get you the flak in any walk of life. With fat checks comes fat scrutiny. Fair? No fair? That's a different debate. But the world's best is a windy cruel place. Probably it's not your money, but god forbid you own a company one day and your biggest earner isn't performing come back and tell us you didnt sack him and it's not his fault
Well, there's my problem with him. I have no dislike for Rooney, I've never had any dislike for Rooney. In fact, I thought he actually did OK in midfield towards the end of last season, and he played OK in his goalscoring run at the start of the year. He signed for us in 2004, and has now been at the club 12 years, and up until 2012, I had no complaints with his performances bar the odd period of inconsistency here and there.
But he's been quite poor these last 4 years IMO. If we get Pogba, and we pay the record fee for him, I feel we have to play him in his best position. To get that we have to play a 3 man midfield, and in a 3 man midfield, there is no room for Wayne Rooney. Plus, I'm also a bit annoyed that barring the first of these 4 years where Ferguson clearly favoured van Persie, and dropped Rooney on a reasonable basis, he has been handed a priveledged position. While all other players have seen periods on the bench after a string of poor performances, the same is not extended to Rooney; he's been picked regularly even in the midst of shocking form. Now that isn't necessarily his fault, it does annoy me. I watch United because I like watching United and Rooney's play has been getting in the way of that enjoyment. If he's picked only on merit, and if he can make his peace with not being a regular, taking the Scholes/Giggs role in essence, I have no issues. But we need a manager with the balls to take that stand. Wantng Rooney dropped isn't necessarily inspired by hatred towards him.
It's never his fault in your eyes. The man can smokes and eat junk food comes back fat and it's still someone else's fault.
In any business you either perform or you're shoved aside. Taking a massive salary and not performing will get you the flak in any walk of life. With fat checks comes fat scrutiny. Fair? No fair? That's a different debate. But the world's best is a windy cruel place. Probably it's not your money, but god forbid you own a company one day and your biggest earner isn't performing come back and tell us you didnt sack him and it's not his fault
I hope to own a company one day.
My feelings towards an under-performer would be based on whether I can prove that they chose to be lazy and under-perform, or if (like Rooney) they just aren't up to it anymore (which isn't his fault, unless people here can prove otherwise.)
Fortunately for me (in that scenario) dealing with employees would be different to dealing with footballers who've signed four/five year contracts that can't be matched elsewhere.
It's difficult to really compare other industries to the football world, because people don't tend to lose their ability to cook, talk to customers, teach, make business decisions, stock-take or whatever. Whereas footballers can drop off at any time, without warning.
As for the bit about junk food - there's little evidence that he leads an unhealthy lifestyle and it's not really relevant.
