Westminster Politics

SalfordRed18

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That's brilliant. She doesn't actually say the referendum was won on lies explicitly, mind. It's vague enough that she can talk her way out of it.
 

Pexbo

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TheGame said:
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The thing is, this wont offend the British public. Because the British public will agree with her and think “she’s talking about them, not me“. Patriotism stretches as far as flags or statues, it doesn’t extend to people.
 

Rams

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TheGame said:
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Finally a politician telling truth and it could be said about most Western countries. Let’s be honest, how many in here are currently posting whilst at work? We’re all guilty of it. It’s the reason why communism doesn’t work.
 

Frosty

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Yes I can hear you Clem Fandango!
Well I'm at the doctors and they have the radio on. Loads of callers agree with her. We have too much immigration and too many job vacancies and too many workshy people on benefits too seems to be the theme.
 

Rams

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Frosty said:
Well I'm at the doctors and they have the radio on. Loads of callers agree with her. We have too much immigration and too many job vacancies and too many workshy people on benefits too seems to be the theme.
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That’s not what she meant though…
 

Jippy

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Frosty said:
Does it matter? I expected it to be a lead balloon and everyone calling in (admittedly during working hours so that may be slightly problematic) agrees. Ten in a row so far. Everyone is making the same connections too.
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Top comments in the DM were all blasting her, saying they work 12 hour shifts already etc..., the Tories hate workers, people need to work harder so the rich stay richer and so on.
 

Rams

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Frosty said:
Does it matter? I expected it to be a lead balloon and everyone calling in (admittedly during working hours so that may be slightly problematic) agrees. Ten in a row so far. Everyone is making the same connections too.
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The irony :lol:
 

Don't Kill Bill

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TheGame said:
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Excellent,

I was worried the Tories might find a way of avoiding the consequences of having BJ as PM, get a new face in and all that fresh start bullshit but no they are going to put Lizzy Dripping in and like Brown she will doom them.

I especially like the bit about how productive London is because that is definitely the way to keep the Northern seats.
 

Drifter

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So as I've said, they are softening up to bring back some immigrants or those who are retiring into the labor market
 

neverdie

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"If there is a class war – and there is – it is important that it should be handled with subtlety and skill,” wrote Maurice Cowling, the influential rightwing historian, in the late 1970s. “It is not freedom that Conservatives want; what they want is the sort of freedom that will maintain existing inequalities or restore lost ones.” The nature of Conservatism has altered very little since, but the class on whose behalf the Tory party fights has changed dramatically: where once it was doctors and lawyers, businessmen, “respectable people”, it is now hedge fund managers and property developers, the filthy, the super, the Croesus rich. If you’re less wealthy than Jacob Rees-Mogg, the party has fought a 12-year war against you, and – newsflash – it won.

In fact, the class war wasn’t fought with subtlety and skill, it was fought in a more modern fashion, with misinformation. The argument for austerity was built on complementary, nonsensical narratives: most disabled people were faking it; most people on benefits were too lazy to work; most waste in the benefits system was lost to fraud; a class of the workshy had been created by benefits; the “big society” was good, because it was much nicer to get your neighbour’s help than to have properly funded public services; parents know more about education than local authorities; and so on.

Opponents of this Cameron-era inanity dignified it by arguing against these propositions as though he actually meant them. What if libraries were mainly used by middle-class children? What if nurses did have to take a pay cut, or we’d soon become Greece? It was just one diversionary talking point after another, as the first offensive wave proceeded completely without mishap, and the destruction of the social safety net was achieved.

With Brexit, at least we were arguing about something real: what happened in relation to Europe mattered, for our prosperity, for our intellectual life, for our rights, for the union, for the climate. But again, we were arguing from a completely false start, as if the two competing sides were legitimately different visions for Britain, one which wanted to take back control, one which didn’t. In fact, the escapade was there to deliver only one outcome: the destruction of regulation by which workers and citizens protect and assert themselves against the interests of capital. It was just the second wave of the war.

Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak, prime ministerial hopefuls, approach the coming crisis with another patchwork of absolute nonsense. The cost of living crisis is all down to the war in Ukraine. We head into recession because we don’t work hard enough. It’s all the fault of the unions, or the woke, who are coming for our growth and “our women” (respectively). Britain can go from strength to strength if the person in charge is enthusiastic enough (according to Truss). This time it’s different – these lines are so incredibly weak and thin, it’s like reaching the end of the road in a Russian misinformation campaign, where they can no longer afford any tech whizzes and they’re leaving meme creation to bots and Google translate.

But it’s different for a more important reason: they’re not trying to divert us from some smart new move – they have no moves. If you look at the level of public debt, the high inflation, the low growth and the tax burden, we’re already in a postwar economy. It was just a different kind of war, a class war masquerading as a kulturkampf, and we lost. Sorry to labour the point, but until we acknowledge the extent of the devastation and its cause we cannot hope to recover our bearings.

You cannot rebuild anything on fictional foundations. There is no meaningful way out of this if we pretend it’s all about global headwinds and we’re a nice nation that can pull together. You cannot organise if you don’t know what side you’re on, and so many of the narratives of the past 12 years have been tailored to mask exactly that. Are you a striver or a shirker? A net contributor or a net recipient? A patriot or a migrant? Metropolitan elite or left behind? Latte sipper or bitter drinker? Woke or anti-woke? Leaver or remainer? We’ve been trapped in this endless cycle of meaningless divisions to mask what’s incredibly plain: we’re all on the same side and we’re all under attack.
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she'd do well to point out labour's role in this under starmer as being tories in red, another side of the same class-interested assault, but otherwise a good article. a key part of the problem is that it isn't just "conservatives". the majority of the representative apparatus no longer represents the public interest when the opposition is so much in sync with the government of the day and so loath to put forth alternatives that benefit the vast majority for fear of either being savaged by the right wing press or for fear of advancing something they have no interest in advancing.

full https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ercent-class-war-brexit-cost-of-living-crisis
 

Spark

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Frosty said:
Does it matter? I expected it to be a lead balloon and everyone calling in (admittedly during working hours so that may be slightly problematic) agrees. Ten in a row so far. Everyone is making the same connections too.
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Heard the same stupid arguments on the radio. Loads of builders saying that the British they employ are shit but the foreigners work really hard. However Brexit has fecked them because the foreigners have all gone home.

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that the wages they pay attract shit British workers but people willing to leave their countries for jobs are surprisingly keen to earn money. Wonder how many French, Dutch, German builders/labourers they employed!

The biggest irony is that ending free movement of labour was supposed to mean that all the “idle British” would be able to fill their places and the magic free market would force wages to increase to galvanise our lazy domestic workforce. Alas, the reality is a massive shortage of labour. Quelle fecking surprise.
 

Fluctuation0161

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As if the welfare system hasn't been stripped back enough over the last 12 years.

British minister accused of trying to hide reports on impact of Tory welfare reforms
Thérèse Coffey ‘set out to minimise evidence’ on studies including research into deaths of benefit claimants and help for vulnerable
https://www.theguardian.com/society...ide-reports-on-impact-of-tory-welfare-reforms

Thousands of disabled people's deaths linked to DWP's failure to act on benefits flaws
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thousands-disabled-peoples-deaths-linked-27375255

Thousands have died after being found fit for work, DWP figures show
Campaigners demand welfare overhaul after statistics reveal 2,380 people died between 2011 and 2014 shortly after being declared able to work
https://www.theguardian.com/society...ied-after-fit-for-work-assessment-dwp-figures
 

Maticmaker

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Vidyoyo said:
"Right now there are more people claiming unemployment benefits than there are job vacancies in the UK"

Did he think that one through?
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Is it true?
If it is then prepare for it to be repeated frequently by the Tories.

Its not new Tory propaganda, its old Tory propaganda... the sub text is " look the hard working tax payer is paying people to be idle when there are jobs to be done"... wasn't it something like this that led to the setting up of 'work houses'?

The Tories should get hammered at the next GE, but will they?... these kind of mantra's will abound. However is Labour ready to shoulder the burden of office, with most TU's striking or working to rule, simply to get a justified wage?

Not altogether sure!
 

jeff_goldblum

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Maticmaker said:
Is it true?
If it is then prepare for it to be repeated frequently by the Tories.

Its not new Tory propaganda, its old Tory propaganda... the sub text is " look the hard working tax payer is paying people to be idle when there are jobs to be done"... wasn't it something like this that led to the setting up of 'work houses'?

The Tories should get hammered at the next GE, but will they?... these kind of mantra's will abound. However is Labour ready to shoulder the burden of office, with most TU's striking or working to rule, simply to get a justified wage?

Not altogether sure!
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I think the point the poster was making is that usually the argument Tories make is that there are more jobs available than there are people on unemployment benefit. In that case (ignoring important stuff like geographical location, skills, suitability etc. as they always do), they make the argument that there is no need for anyone to be on jobseekers because the jobs are there.

If the poster quoted Sunak correctly (I've not watched the video), Sunak is saying that there are fewer jobs available than there people on unemployment benefit, which undercuts that classic Tory argument. If there are fewer jobs available than there are people on unemployment benefit, then even if all the jobs were taken there would still be people without one, and they'd be undeniably justified in claiming the benefit.
 
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Fluctuation0161

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Maticmaker said:
Is it true?
If it is then prepare for it to be repeated frequently by the Tories.

Its not new Tory propaganda, its old Tory propaganda... the sub text is " look the hard working tax payer is paying people to be idle when there are jobs to be done"... wasn't it something like this that led to the setting up of 'work houses'?

The Tories should get hammered at the next GE, but will they?... these kind of mantra's will abound. However is Labour ready to shoulder the burden of office, with most TU's striking or working to rule, simply to get a justified wage?

Not altogether sure!
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I think you miss the point.

If more people are claiming unemployment benefits than there are available job vacancies, then there are not enough jobs to go round.

The statement is pointless because even if there were zero job vacancies the statement would be true. But some people don't think about it, and are caught up in believing the Tory bluster.
 
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