Westminster Politics

[TheGame]

I can understand accepting the doctor with a view of getting across that the NHS is struggling under the Tories and he was standing down anyway.

Elphicke is a different kettle of fish entirely. She is a nasty piece of work, just look at her past record.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

I can understand accepting the doctor with a view of getting across that the NHS is struggling under the Tories and he was standing down anyway.

Elphicke is a different kettle of fish entirely. She is a nasty piece of work, just look at her past record.

Chronically online people hate it. Me included. She’s awful.

But the 98% of people that voted for her and the Tories last time out will see her defection as a Labour endorsement.

It’s good politics but awful and something I can’t defend as a decent human.

 

[ivaldo]

Chronically online people hate it. Me included. She’s awful.

But the 98% of people that voted for her and the Tories last time out will see her defection as a Labour endorsement.

It’s good politics but awful and something I can’t defend as a decent human.

We know she's going to step down and will form no part of a labour government. Both Labour and Elphicke are just using this as an opportunity to damage Rishi.

 

[Fully Fledged]

We know she's going to step down and will form no part of a labour government. Both Labour and Elphicke are just using this as an opportunity to damage Rishi.

Still, if you take a pipette filled with liquid shite and squirt it in a glass of clean water, the whole glass ends up with a mirky shite colour.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

We know she's going to step down and will form no part of a labour government. Both Labour and Elphicke are just using this as an opportunity to damage Rishi.

Exactly.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Still, if you take a pipette filled with liquid shite and squirt it in a glass of clean water, the whole glass ends up with a mirky shite colour.

It’s more like having a plastic cup of fresh Thames shite water with a hole in it. Taking your pipette and filling it with water from that cup.

Then, putting that in a shot glass that sits next to a glass of actually clean water.

Nobody is going to drink the shot. It’s irrelevant. She’s a cnut and I wish they’d not accepted her. But she’s standing down and Labour will be running a viable candidate in the seat.

 

[ivaldo]

Still, if you take a pipette filled with liquid shite and squirt it in a glass of clean water, the whole glass ends up with a mirky shite colour.

Glad I'm eating soup right now, and that glass is far from clean. It's already murky, but on this occasion it's not even making it as far as the glass.

 

[Fully Fledged]

It’s more like having a plastic cup of fresh Thames shite water with a hole in it. Taking your pipette and filling it with water from that cup.

Then, putting that in a shot glass that sits next to a glass of actually clean water.

Nobody is going to drink the shot. It’s irrelevant. She’s a cnut and I wish they’d not accepted her. But she’s standing down and Labour will be running a viable candidate in the seat.

Glad I'm eating soup right now, and that glass is far from clean. It's already murky, but on this occasion it's not even making it as far as the glass.

From what I saw at PMQS it was sitting right in the middle of the glass. Yes the water was already mirky.

I get that she's not sitting at the next election but there needs to be lines you will not cross. With some of the party members that have been expelled from the party for sitting next to someone who said something dubious to welcoming someone who at best has said things that could be considered racist just doesn't sit right with me.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

From what I saw at PMQS it was sitting right in the middle of the glass. Yes the water was already mirky.

I get that she's not sitting at the next election but there needs to be lines you will not cross. With some of the party members that have been expelled from the party for sitting next to someone who said something dubious to welcoming someone who at best has said things that could be considered racist just doesn't sit right with me.

I don’t think most people are aware of this though. The Mail, Sun, Express readers, who watch Good Morning Britain and such, see this shit as ‘Even the Tories that want to stop the boats know that Labour will do a better job of it’.

I know this as that’s a large part of my family. They see this as a bigger statement than any sensible Labour plan to fight the gangs and open legal routes. It does have a purpose.

But yes, still a disgusting piece of shit to have in the Labour waters.

 

[TheGame]

I’m struggling to see what’s in it for these MPs as well?. It’s not as if they are standing again so they are not saving their own skin?

 

[TheGame]

Wakefield, Poulter, Elphicke. Who next, Dobba?

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Wakefield, Poulter, Elphicke. Who next, Dobba?

He’s still reeling from a misheard doorstepper. Pay him no mind.

 

[DavelinaJolie]

Elphicke is a different kettle of fish entirely. She is a nasty piece of work, just look at her past record.

They just want the Man Utd fan vote.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

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Obscene. I despise this company.

 

[Mogget]

The end result will be apathy, which will lead to more of the same. More privatisation, more running down of essential services, more kicking the can down the road when it comes to green issues, house building and infrastructure upgrades. More soundbites about magic money trees, people in dinghies and benefit scroungers. More cringeworthy interviews after yet more u-turns. More flag shagging, more cap doffing and more peerages for those that toe the line. More than ever before, we'll have more of the same. And we'll be grateful for it.

It's so obvious this is what's going to happen and there genuinely feels like no way to actually do anything about it.

 

[Badunk]

Listening to James O'Brien discussing Elphicke's deflection and making Starmer seem like a genius playing 5D chess feels like peak centrist dad. His fawning is nauseating, especially when he tweeted that he couldn't vote for Corbyn at the time. "Starmer has given conservative voters permission to vote Labour."

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[WPMUFC]

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[Dr. StrangeHate]

Starmer has made Labour the more competent conservative party with less corruption and that is enough to win the election by a landslide. In fact he will now get votes from both conservatives (who want a more competent tory party) and lefties (who want to vote for a party that can oust the Tories in the hope of a pivot later on). I don't whether it was his plan or it was just luck.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

If the General Election is in the Autumn, it could coincide with the introduction of the EU Entry/Exit system. The meltdown from Elphicke will be something to behold. Are you absolutely sure that you thought this through, Starmer? Not a very good record thus far.

 

[Sweet Square]

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[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Listening to James O'Brien discussing Elphicke's deflection and making Starmer seem like a genius playing 5D chess feels like peak centrist dad. His fawning is nauseating, especially when he tweeted that he couldn't vote for Corbyn at the time. "Starmer has given conservative voters permission to vote Labour."

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Other radio stations are available mate.

Labelling a fifty something fella that went to private school and works in journalism on LBC in the lunchtime slot ‘A centrist dad’ is a beyond stupid. It’s exactly what he is and you’re complaining after tuning jn.

Instead of shouting at your radio for giving you exactly what it says on the tin, just listen to something else?

 

[WPMUFC]

Other radio stations are available mate.

Labelling a fifty something fella that went to private school and works in journalism on LBC in the lunchtime slot ‘A centrist dad’ is a beyond stupid. It’s exactly what he is and you’re complaining after tuning jn.

Instead of shouting at your radio for giving you exactly what it says on the tin, just listen to something else?

Digging up tweets from 5 years ago because "bad man said bad thing about the dear leader" is still seemingly standard nonsense in leftist circles. I genuinely cannot believe they still give a shit about Corbyn. Is no one on the UK left worthy of holding up as a new leader?

 

[Maagge]

It seems like Labour are going the way of the Danish Social Democrats who are now leading a very unpopular government together with two other centre right parties.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

It seems like Labour are going the way of the Danish Social Democrats who are now leading a very unpopular government together with two other centre right parties.

On what planet? Honestly. He literally stood up in Parliament just a few weeks ago and said there are certain people whose votes he’ll never chase or want.

I really don’t know what people want or expect at this point. It’s like all of us in the left are afraid of a Labour win so huge that the Tories are irrelevant for a decade. It’s absolutely essential that that happens.

The idea that an opposition party that’s just seen an election that saw the government hold an 80 seat majority, can drag the Overton window left, is utterly insane.

That we can’t celebrate where we are now, after 2019, is evidence of how daft we all are (me often included).

The manifesto will be strong. We need as many people as possible to vote for it. We won’t like many people that do. So what? They need educating. The manifesto will Not be as strong as you or I want, but that’s the reality we live in.

 

[The Corinthian]

On what planet? Honestly. He literally stood up in Parliament just a few weeks ago and said there are certain people whose votes he’ll never chase or want.

I really don’t know what people want or expect at this point. It’s like all of us in the left are afraid of a Labour win so huge that the Tories are irrelevant for a decade. It’s absolutely essential that that happens.

The idea that an opposition party that’s just seen an election that saw the government hold an 80 seat majority, can drag the Overton window left, is utterly insane.

That we can’t celebrate where we are now, after 2019, is evidence of how daft we all are (me often included).

The manifesto will be strong. We need as many people as possible to vote for it. We won’t like many people that do. So what? They need educating. The manifesto will Not be as strong as you or I want, but that’s the reality we live in.

The point you're missing is that Labour could have realistically won sticking to Labour principles. This pivoting to be Tory-lite is a shit show and it's why so many historical Labour voters, like myself, will look to alternate parties. The Gaza debacle compounds it all.

I said it many months ago, but Keir leading Labour after the incompetence and contempt this set of Tories have shown the rest of us is akin to an open goal. He didn't need to do all this, and the funny thing is there is a small small chance he'll still miss.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

On what planet? Honestly. He literally stood up in Parliament just a few weeks ago and said there are certain people whose votes he’ll never chase or want.

I really don’t know what people want or expect at this point. It’s like all of us in the left are afraid of a Labour win so huge that the Tories are irrelevant for a decade. It’s absolutely essential that that happens.

The idea that an opposition party that’s just seen an election that saw the government hold an 80 seat majority, can drag the Overton window left, is utterly insane.

That we can’t celebrate where we are now, after 2019, is evidence of how daft we all are (me often included).

The manifesto will be strong. We need as many people as possible to vote for it. We won’t like many people that do. So what? They need educating. The manifesto will Not be as strong as you or I want, but that’s the reality we live in.

I'm not voting in the UK so he doesn't have to win my vote but if I still lived there I wouldn't vote for him. I'm not a Corbynite nor a right-winger - there's nothing about him that is appealing. I surely wouldn't be alone. He's treating the public like they have no brain whatsoever. He may get away with it once, he won't in 2029.

His missions have all but died a death and he has no money, he says, anyway. On Europe he's absolutely hopeless with no idea at all, really no idea. Climate change -who knows. Free ports - absolutely catastrophic idea which he's going along with. Social care NHS etc with no money. No nationalisation by the look of it, no change in the voting system.

He'll win the election - should have walked it easily without all the latest nonsense and it's imperative that the Tories are voted out. Then what? Recipe for the Tories to return at the subsequent GE.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

The point you're missing is that Labour could have realistically won sticking to Labour principles. This pivoting to be Tory-lite is a shit show and it's why so many historical Labour voters, like myself, will look to alternate parties. The Gaza debacle compounds it all.

I said it many months ago, but Keir leading Labour after the incompetence and contempt this set of Tories have shown the rest of us is akin to an open goal. He didn't need to do all this, and the funny thing is there is a small small chance he'll still miss.

All good man, vote where you like. I’m not missing any point. I don’t like lots of the centre right vote chasing, and I think some of the messaging is garbled and wrong headed.

But I still think that all printed goals and supporting documentation is to the left of Blair. There’s always a gap between what is said and what is done.

I truly believe we’re broken by years of Tories saying one thing publicly and doing something worse in Reality.

I also believe that Starmers Labour will have a gap. But I think the words are to the right of what Policy will be. The fella has taken a party that got smashed to pieces 5 years ago and now enjoys a 20-30 point lead.

Happy for the forum and its dog to laugh at me if we get a paper thin Tory-lite manifesto, and no delivery of it. I just can’t see it happening.

This country is utterly fecked. fecked to the extent that the merest suggestion that it’s fecked is something to beat the opposition with. Our national psyche is in the bin. You and I on this message board are not representative of the country. Not by a long shot. I have family members that are paying a fortune in utility bills, have experienced mortgage increases and been turned away from a beach this year because of sewage. Yet they STILL think Labour will make it worse. Because the media. Yeah, I’m from a tiny town of 20,000 people, but you can’t just ignore those people. There are bloody millions of them across the country.

I really think you unite the country by bringing as many people on board as possible and show the doubters a good time. Not just give 30% of votes away to the Tories and Reform. We saw what Brexit did and that was 52-48. A 40-60 split would see just as much division remain. We need to remember that millions of these people voted for Blair, then Cameron and Boris. They may end up voting Labour for a lifetime if we don’t cast them aside now, and actually rebuild this shithole into a functioning country.

Anywho. Massive rant. Apologies. feck the Tories.

 

[DanH]

I think we've established that not everyone will be voting for Labour at this point.

 

[Maagge]

On what planet? Honestly. He literally stood up in Parliament just a few weeks ago and said there are certain people whose votes he’ll never chase or want.

I really don’t know what people want or expect at this point. It’s like all of us in the left are afraid of a Labour win so huge that the Tories are irrelevant for a decade. It’s absolutely essential that that happens.

The idea that an opposition party that’s just seen an election that saw the government hold an 80 seat majority, can drag the Overton window left, is utterly insane.

That we can’t celebrate where we are now, after 2019, is evidence of how daft we all are (me often included).

The manifesto will be strong. We need as many people as possible to vote for it. We won’t like many people that do. So what? They need educating. The manifesto will Not be as strong as you or I want, but that’s the reality we live in.

I'm not sure what that has to do with what I wrote. I basically said that the Social Democrats have moved from centre left to centre right in Denmark. From the outside, it looks like Labour are doing the same.

At least in Denmark we have proportional representation meaning that people won't throw away their vote by moving it to a different party. Which I think (hope) will happen in the next election.

 

[Adisa]

To the Britons of this forum. Do you have the sensation that labour is becoming the Tory Party from 2010 and the Tory is becoming the UKIP? If so (because is what I had been reading lately here), who will fill the vacuum of Labour on the center left?

It’s not a sensation. It basically is. The entire country and the politics has shifted right. You can thank Brexit for that.
I even think the Tories in 2010 wouldn’t dream of talking about some of the things Labour are willing to discuss.

 

[Badunk]

Other radio stations are available mate.

Labelling a fifty something fella that went to private school and works in journalism on LBC in the lunchtime slot ‘A centrist dad’ is a beyond stupid. It’s exactly what he is and you’re complaining after tuning jn.

Instead of shouting at your radio for giving you exactly what it says on the tin, just listen to something else?

I'll pack up and move somewhere else as well, while I'm at it, since I'm unhappy with the state of the country. Same kind of thing, yeah? Don't like it, jog on?

I'd better not have an opinion about our football team either, eh? There are others I could support, after all.

 

[Badunk]

For the record, I understand the logic of people thinking it's all a bit of a bluff to win votes and then enact social change that benefits the majority. I just don't agree with it. And I hope it's me that's wrong.

 

[Badunk]

There are plenty of examples where a leader has purported to be a socialist 'man of the people' before coming to power but then becoming very right wing and authoritarian after being elected (Mussolini being an obvious one). But has one ever pretended to be right wing and went the opposite way once they were in power?

I asked Gemini and it couldn't answer.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

I'll pack up and move somewhere else as well, while I'm at it, since I'm unhappy with the state of the country. Same kind of thing, yeah? Don't like it, jog on?

I'd better not have an opinion about our football team either, eh? There are others I could support, after all.

Mate, I’m just saying don’t listen to a radio station when someone is talking if you’re going to criticise him for being exactly what he is. It’s daft.

O’Brien is just about bearable to me on most topics. I switch off when he’s hectoring on a subject I don’t care about, or talking about something I disagree with him on.

Wanting him to be something he’s not, while still listening is nuts.

 

[Frosty]

There are plenty of examples where a leader has purported to be a socialist 'man of the people' before coming to power but then becoming very right wing and authoritarian after being elected (Mussolini being an obvious one). But has one ever pretended to be right wing and went the opposite way once they were in power?

I asked Gemini and it couldn't answer.

Depends on your definition of right and left wing over time, but there are examples of a leader being more progressive when in power. Theodore Roosevelt turned on his donors and used competition law to break corporate monopolies: https://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/disp_textbook.cfm?smtID=2&psid=3141.

 

[Badunk]

Mate, I’m just saying don’t listen to a radio station when someone is talking if you’re going to criticise him for being exactly what he is. It’s daft.

O’Brien is just about bearable to me on most topics. I switch off when he’s hectoring on a subject I don’t care about, or talking about something I disagree with him on.

Wanting him to be something he’s not, while still listening is nuts.

He's got a massive platform. He influences opinion. He had one young lad disagreeing with Starmer's acceptance of this horrible MP and he was condescending and abrupt with him. Everyone else agreed with him and he let them waffle away about how smart Starmer is. There was even a bit about how genuinely caring Starmer is and that there hasn't been a leader like that forever. It was nauseating sycophancy and divorced from reality.

And I can listen and criticise. Same way I can watch Question Time and criticise. Same way I can watch United and criticise. Same way I can read your posts, and you can read mine, and we can criticise. I'm sharing my opinion on the biggest politics/current affairs show host on the radio, on this one particular issue, on this one particular day. Don't ask me to put my fingers in my ears.

 

[Badunk]

Depends on your definition of right and left wing over time, but there are examples of a leader being more progressive when in power. Theodore Roosevelt turned on his donors and used competition law to break corporate monopolies: https://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/disp_textbook.cfm?smtID=2&psid=3141.

Good point. I'd forgotten about him. And it may well prove that, in a UK that could end up as broken as the US in the Great Depression, Starmer might be pragmatic and pivot towards policies that benefit those in need the most. We will see.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I’m struggling to see what’s in it for these MPs as well?. It’s not as if they are standing again so they are not saving their own skin?

One month ago Elphicke was slating Starmer. In five or six months or whenever the GE happens, there is a tiny teeny weeny possibility that she may quite possibly change her mind. Especially now the nice weather has started and many people in those boats may swarm across the Channel. Then the EU introduce the EES and the tailback from Dover is past Maidstone.
And will Starmer protect those poor people from making that dangerous crossing secure the borders from imminent invasion?

 

[4bars]

The Lib Dems will probably be looking to occupy the centre ground, especially after their strong showing in the local elections (they ended up with more councillors than the Tories). As far as leftist goes, the Greens will probably soak up most of the Labour progressives, they also did well in the council elections but are still very much a fringe party in mainstream British politics, and I'd expect them to continue being so under the FPTP electoral system unfortunately. That and the fact our media seemingly has no interest giving them any airtime, despite offering plenty to the lunatics at Reform who have far less representation.

It’s not a sensation. It basically is. The entire country and the politics has shifted right. You can thank Brexit for that.
I even think the Tories in 2010 wouldn’t dream of talking about some of the things Labour are willing to discuss.

Thanks for confirming my sensations

 

[Sweet Square]

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