He isn't exactly a defensive midfielder. At Southampton, Wanyama played in front of the defense and Schneiderlin was more of a runner who put pressure on the attackers. I'd say he is more of a box-to-box midfielder than anything else.
What are Schneiderlin's greatest attributes?
- Thread starter vidic blood & sand
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
He has been defended on here with the help of every excuse under the sun. He has been tried with every partner at multiple roles in midfield and he hasn't looked the part. Time is running out for him and last we were told he'd be brilliant in a Jose team but we'll have to see.
Caf has a habit of overrating average players, midfielders in particular. If our midfield signings were left for caf to sort, we'd have been playing Tiote behind Cabaye and Wilshere.
Caf has a habit of overrating average players, midfielders in particular. If our midfield signings were left for caf to sort, we'd have been playing Tiote behind Cabaye and Wilshere.
Just curious but has he ever had a proper run of games? Like atleast 7-8 consecutive games?
Don't see why he couldn't do the Khedira role alongside an Alonso type player in a 4-2-3-1. Of course that all changes with Pogba coming into the team. Essien's role in a 4-3-3 was a little different but I wonder if he could pull it off. He could be a lot better than Herrera there. For all Herrera's energy, isn't he a little lightweight? He might apply a lot of pressure but is he a ball winner? Schneiderlin definitely is/was (at Southampton) a player who could win the ball back easily.
I have lots of time for Morgan. He just needs a good run in the side. Rather than being made to play in patches.
he's a very statistically pleasing player. watching the game he's under the radar to the point of invisibility though. he needs a run of games imo, he's not really had that since being here.
True that. Pity we havent given him a decent run in the team. Really wasting the lads career.
He has a lot of great attributes, at Southampton he was one of the best midfielders in the league.
-workrate
-stamina
-positioning
-guile
-aerial presence
-acceleration (this one has never been used properly for us, it's a shame)
are his greatest attributes for me. He's not great anywhere technically (ball control, passing, etc - except maybe striking, he used to score a lot of long-range screamers before Southampton got into the PL), but he's still very good everywhere without any big hole in his game.
His two big weaknesses have shown when he had to step up his game for us though, unfortunately :
- he is a bit spineless and crumbles under pressure
- his football intelligence and vision are average, he's no playmaker
Then again, i think these weaknesses have been exposed because we tried to mould him into something he's not meant to be.
We often talk about giving the offensive players some freedom so they can express their full potential (Pogba, Nani, etc), but i think the same argument can be made for some of the more defensive players. Schneiderlin will shine if he gets the freedom and opportunity to roam all over the pitch and just tackle everyone, like Kanté did for Leicester last year. Give him a specific role and responsibilities, he will fade. That's how i see it.
-workrate
-stamina
-positioning
-guile
-aerial presence
-acceleration (this one has never been used properly for us, it's a shame)
are his greatest attributes for me. He's not great anywhere technically (ball control, passing, etc - except maybe striking, he used to score a lot of long-range screamers before Southampton got into the PL), but he's still very good everywhere without any big hole in his game.
His two big weaknesses have shown when he had to step up his game for us though, unfortunately :
- he is a bit spineless and crumbles under pressure
- his football intelligence and vision are average, he's no playmaker
Then again, i think these weaknesses have been exposed because we tried to mould him into something he's not meant to be.
We often talk about giving the offensive players some freedom so they can express their full potential (Pogba, Nani, etc), but i think the same argument can be made for some of the more defensive players. Schneiderlin will shine if he gets the freedom and opportunity to roam all over the pitch and just tackle everyone, like Kanté did for Leicester last year. Give him a specific role and responsibilities, he will fade. That's how i see it.
I completely agree. His strength is his energy, which requires him to move around a lot to him express, therefore he needs lots of freedom. I think he can be a tempo-setter without the ball, just like a Keane, Vieira or Gerrard, when they started to press, got the whole team going. Also, people talk about how we should have bought Kanté. Don't we have a Kanté of our own? Schneiderlin was the stand out player in that role in 2014/15, just as Kanté was last season.
Was about to say that as well. He has good balance to add to his energy. He just seems to lack focus and motivation. He needs to add a bit of aggression and transmit authority into the team.
So what you all basically saying is build a midfield around Morgan. Because than he needs two players beside him, one to screen the back four and another to provide the passing.
It's so strange that in every performance thread there are these defence cliques forming around almost all players. Of course everyone can have their favourites and all of us hate to be wrong with the evaluation of a player but the solution is not what is suggested above.
These players have a maybe once in a lifetime chance joining a huge club and they should do everything they can to modify their game accordingly to make it here otherwise they'll be replaced in no time.
I'm sure the players themselves know it perfectly well but in the alternate reality of this football forum it is argued against all the time.
It's so strange that in every performance thread there are these defence cliques forming around almost all players. Of course everyone can have their favourites and all of us hate to be wrong with the evaluation of a player but the solution is not what is suggested above.
These players have a maybe once in a lifetime chance joining a huge club and they should do everything they can to modify their game accordingly to make it here otherwise they'll be replaced in no time.
I'm sure the players themselves know it perfectly well but in the alternate reality of this football forum it is argued against all the time.
He doesn't share many similarities with Khedira. The latter is a very disciplined tactically player, his movement on the pitch is almost exclusively vertical and, although he's not the most gifted footballer on the ball, he's a great asset to have in your team when it comes to creating numerical advantages in the final third or getting late runs in the box from the midfield. Schneiderlin gets drawn to the ball more often than he probably should, he's got more pluralism in his movement than Khedira but he's way behind him when it comes to offering things in the attacking plays too.
I won't even bring Essien to the discussion. Essien seems to be very underrated on here, probably a top three midfielder in the world during his peak and one of the most intelligent footballers i've ever watched play the game. That's a level Morgan will never be able reach in his career. You're also giving very little credit to Keane in your posts. He wasn't just a water carrier, his short passing was crisp and rather accurate. He wasn't a deep lying play maker, in the sense we perceive these players today, but he certainly knew how to pick the right passes to initiate a quick attack from the back, he could carry the ball forward through the lines and he knew when his team needed a breather during a game.
There's also a debate about his role (from others, not you) on the pitch, is he a b2b or a DM? He's neither when it comes to discussing the level we want to get at. In modern football the #6 role almost always refers to the player who's the absolute king in the square in front of the back four. Morgan could play there but his tendency to drift away from position creates a need for two very disciplined midfielders alongside him who will be astute in their defensive duties. The notion that he's a good enough for United b2b midfielder comes from the massive overrating of Southampton's 2014-15 season. They were a solid team that relied heavily on not conceding goals to win football matches. Take away the two freak results (8-0 against Sunderland and the 6-1 over AV) and they have 40 goals in 36 matches. They could hardly turn around games when they conceded first. RM have Modric for that role, Barcelona Rakitic, City Silva, Bayern Vidal, Arsenal Cathorla and the list goes on. All these players are crucial when their team is on the ball, Morgan simply doesn't fit the bill. As for the #6 role, freaking Fellaini is ahead of him in the pecking order. What is there to discuss?
Being cute
He's had zero chance here to form any bloody opinion. I don't think he's played 3 consecutive matches has he? I know Felliani isn't an easy dog to kick at present but kicking a player that's hardly kicked a football for us, is a bit daft. Go to the Rooney thread and fill your boots....
Does Khedira offer that numerical advantage in a 4-2-3-1? Because we've never seen Schneiderlin play as the furthest forward in a 4-3-3. I don't think it matters anyhow. Pogba wouldn't sit deep and be dictating so Schneiderlin wouldn't have to be that much of an attacking threat. With regards to the other things you've said: is being more tactically disciplined and having more vertical movement a good thing or is it just a different interpretation of the role? Obviously getting attracted to the ball "too" much is a bad thing. I suppose you think he's not good enough to be a first teamer as opposed to not being that type of player?
So not good enough? Was Fletcher a top three midfielder in the world? Does Morgan need to be that good for the team to do well?
I think this is a good point. It raises the questions of what is needed at the DM postion. Most people are suggesting Weigl and Verratti, perhaps people who are more patient. Maybe we just need a quicker, more decisive passer there for the team to function well.
Last edited:
If you play 4231 with Pogba as the more attacking minded midfielder, you need a second midfielder whose positional awareness and passing skills are well developed, a holding midfielder in the shape of Alonso or Carrick (at this peak). Right now, Blind would be a much more sound choice that Morgan. Fellaini gets the nod ahead of Morgan and Blind because he never strays far from the central channels and Mourinho has a thing for tall, physical players. If you use Morgan as the more advanced midfielder, either in a 4231 or a 433, you get very limited results on the ball as i explained in my previous post. When you put him as the mediator between a holding midfielder and an AM (433) you get excellent defensive coverage but again you will have to ask a lot from the other two midfielders in terms of ball carrying and connecting the lines. Rafa's Liverpool did it with Mascherano (Morgan), Alonso (?) Gerrard (Pogba) but keep in mind that it was more than 10 years ago and they were a very defensive side (a thing that prohibited them from challenging in a marathon like the PL for year after year).
As for Khedira, you are right to assume it's different interpretation of the role but this wasn't my point. At Madrid two very disciplined midfielders, like Khedira and Alonso, allowed the utilization of Ozil in the #10 with freedom of movement to pull the strings. Even at Barcelona, the MSN have a very structured midfield behind them, you will rarely see the likes of Iniesta or Rakitic chasing the ball all around while Busquets plays very close to the them. I'm saying this because many people want to see both Herrera and Morgan, two players whose biggest weapon is closing down and stealing balls, in the starting lineup. It will give us energy and the ability to press better but it will also leave Pogba in no man's land. If you are to pull the strings and become the focal point in the midfield you must know and understand the movement around you. And both Morgan's and Herrera's movement is quite frantic at times. Plus with those two Pogba would certainly have to play deeper nonetheless because of limited ball playing and ball carrying abilities. But that's a discussion for another thread, Pogba will have to drop deeper in any tactics we use with this squad.
Fletcher wasn't a world class midfielder, far from it but he was much closer to Khedira than Morgan. His vertical movement was much more useful to us because of the nature of our game (direct, counter attacking, wide play with the CMs attempting late runs in the box) and he could offer a lot more than Morgan in the attacking half. Let me put it this way, Morgan covers more spaces in the middle third, Khedira, Keane and Fletcher cover less spaces in that area but they can cover the whole of the pitch. And for a team that wants to get players in dangerous positions this is quite useful. The Morgan-Herrera-Pogba triangle in the midfield is much more defensive minded than the Fellaini-Pogba-Rooney in terms of spacial coverage in the attacking half.
I still dont really understand exactly what went wrong with Schneiderlin.
Was he just not as good a player when we signed him as we thought?
Can he not handle the stage at Old Trafford?
Was Southampton set up a very specific way, with the right squad to get he best out of him? Do we just not have the right kind of players for him to thrive?
Has he just not been given a chance? (This is the one I still feel, deep down, is my answer to the question.)
Honestly, when he has played he hasnt seemed as bad to me as some people make out. And certainly, if you make allowances for some rustiness, given the lack of playing time he gets, I feel he still has it in him to be a good player for us, if only he was given a chance.
Was he just not as good a player when we signed him as we thought?
Can he not handle the stage at Old Trafford?
Was Southampton set up a very specific way, with the right squad to get he best out of him? Do we just not have the right kind of players for him to thrive?
Has he just not been given a chance? (This is the one I still feel, deep down, is my answer to the question.)
Honestly, when he has played he hasnt seemed as bad to me as some people make out. And certainly, if you make allowances for some rustiness, given the lack of playing time he gets, I feel he still has it in him to be a good player for us, if only he was given a chance.
i think he should be tried in Herrera's position even though he offers less than Ander going forward it would be good to see if he can be an alternative for Herrera when is injured/suspended. From what I saw during his time at Southampton he is a defensive box-box midfielder, we cant make him seat deep its never been his game
I've got a feeling it's something to do with his role plus not being given enough of a chance in his best role. He seems to have been pigeon holed as a defensive holding / destroyer here whereas at Soton that role was played by his partner Wanyama.
His passing really went down the drain once he moved here and that was his biggest undoing. He grew even less ambitious than his usual conservative self and the problems we had with getting the ball up the pitch with incisive passing made him unplayable most of the time.
Herrera, while I don't think he's as good defensively, he's competent defensively. He has a much wider asset to his game also which makes Morgan redundant here. Good player still I think but the reasons for him not playing make sense
He's possibly the worst signing we've made in the post Fergie era in terms of performances. Di Maria was hugely disappointing but not completely pointless and had his moments. Falcao had the excuse of being pretty finished due to injuries. Schweinsteiger looked very good at times and spent the rest injured. Darmian might be woerful compared to how he was rated here, but he defensively he does contribute. Fellaini is at odds at the kinf of club he's at, but he's had some very good matches and spells for us.
Schneiderlin, despite being hailed as the midfielder we needed, has been completely pointless. When he plays he has no technical ability and spending time on the pitch seems to be his greatest achievement. And he's at good age for footballers
Even Memphis has done better than him. And that says a lot.
Schneiderlin, despite being hailed as the midfielder we needed, has been completely pointless. When he plays he has no technical ability and spending time on the pitch seems to be his greatest achievement. And he's at good age for footballers
Even Memphis has done better than him. And that says a lot.
His greatest attribute is managing to con so many people into believing he's any good.
Obviously patience at this stage.
I think he came from an ultra-defensive setup at Soton and he was just unable to alternate his game to a point where he can become the player that we need. With his offensive output or lack of it, it was certain from minute one that his only chances here will come in a deep defensive role.
However he had like 2 or 3 acceptable performances which if I remember correctly happened in games where we were mostly on the backfoot defending deeper than usual. He was also a terrible fit for LvG's style of play. But if Mourinho cannot find any use of him it is definitely the time to cut ties.
That's the thing isnt it. As @Wednesday at Stoke and @jetlee have implied in different ways, I kind of assumed he suffered from being incompatible with Van Gaal. So I thought he might rediscover some of his form under a new manager with different ideas about how to play. But the fact Mourinho has found no use for him at all is pretty damning. There might have been a way back for him, as there has been with Darmian, Carrick and others, but even that hasnt happened and its hard to see it happening now.
I guess some players just arent cut out for a club like United, maybe he falls into that category.
I guess some players just arent cut out for a club like United, maybe he falls into that category.
Agreed. He wasn't the first and he won't be the last. He's a goner now for sure anyways.
He's a box to box midfielder who needs to play alongside a DM type. That's what made him good at Soton. He's not a DM despite being played there often. Herrera is far better in the box-to-box role anyways so it would be a good move to sell him. I think BFS or TFM would be a good backup in case of injuries to Herrera.
I've forgotten.
He's really really good at being the last person you notice on the bench. Obviously not when reading them out, but when you're shown a picture of subs bench on the tele, or you're looking from the stands... Schneiderlin is always the last person you notice on there.
Similarly, after you've read the bench, and someone asks you about it 5 minutes later, he'll be the last name you say... You'll say "Feckin' Afro Head is on the bench again, it's him Blind, Young, Rooney, Mata, Romero... is that 7? I think that's 7? Or have I missed one?" I don't need to go on, you all know how this conversation goes.
Similarly, after you've read the bench, and someone asks you about it 5 minutes later, he'll be the last name you say... You'll say "Feckin' Afro Head is on the bench again, it's him Blind, Young, Rooney, Mata, Romero... is that 7? I think that's 7? Or have I missed one?" I don't need to go on, you all know how this conversation goes.
I remember he scored a few match winners under LVG. His best moments were from making those driving runs from midfield and getting a pop on goal. Unfortunately his all around game was never good enough for us and that makes him a bit of a luxury player.
If memory serves hes a more defensive box to box mid. He will run up and down the pitch winning the ball back and feed it to the more creative players. He will run up and down for days and does very good interceptions and great for when you are playing backs against the wall football. Has a good first touch and can spray a ball to full backs from time to time. Hes not a Carrick type of player, nor is he a one man mop up crew like macherano. Hes a high energy ball winner proably good for a side that has a high press and plays on the counter
He cant replace Carrick and Herrera is better at the other role.
Problem is that at United, like all top clubs, you need some technical ability even as a DM.
Problem is that at United, like all top clubs, you need some technical ability even as a DM.
Born to play in Premier League but not necessarily under current system. Defensively and on the ball much more responsive than Fellaini so at current time and situation he still could be useful back up as he offers more variety than his Belgian mate.
He is simiilar to Kante imo, not at that level, but the same type of player with simialr position and strengths respectively the roles they take in the teams. Kante is a bit more aggressive even and small and agile, while Schneiderlin is taller. But i think both their games have strong points (more in interceptions and defensive play), while they both contribute offensively with easier, but effective passing. Both box to box ideally, but play as a DM at times.
Thats why i hoped Jose could use him nicely, but it seems not so. I think Schneiderlin just cant cope with the pressure and being at United. He is a good player, but it seems he just cant elevate his agme to a higher level and therefore cant succeeed. Now he is also low on confidence and that can drag him down in training and his overall mentality. Everton under Koeman is the perfect club to get him back on track.
Thats why i hoped Jose could use him nicely, but it seems not so. I think Schneiderlin just cant cope with the pressure and being at United. He is a good player, but it seems he just cant elevate his agme to a higher level and therefore cant succeeed. Now he is also low on confidence and that can drag him down in training and his overall mentality. Everton under Koeman is the perfect club to get him back on track.
Last edited:
His greatest attribute? His absolutely top draw ability to hide away from taking any sort of responsibility (going forward) and recycling the ball backwards and sidewards all day long. Does it like a G.
I think this also.
He's fluent in French?
His hair is pretty nice.
This.