Chairman Woodie
Full Member
I agree @BobbyManc . The continuing survival of the regime is evidence of its cold calculation. The best practitioners of machiavellian politics in the modern era.
I don't entirely disagree but executing relatives and political rivals, sometimes with flamethrowers or mortar bombardment, is fairly unhinged.The North Korea regime is sane and has been for a long time, contrary to Western governments and media that present them as irrational, hellbent on developing nuclear weapons for the sake of it or as part of some evil, maniacal pursuit - the region of Korea was nuclearised by the US for a start. We really need to ditch the false and dangerous narrative that their leaders are insane/unhinged, at least when it comes to foreign policy. For one, that suggests there is no real solution to the tension on the Korean peninsula without war/regime change, which is untrue.
A lot of those stories have been sensationalised, the wiki article has a good interview of why: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_coverage_of_North_KoreaI don't entirely disagree but executing relatives and political rivals, sometimes with flamethrowers or mortar bombardment, is fairly unhinged.
Kim Chol was a Vice Minister of Defense who was allegedly purged and executed by a mortar round for "drinking and carousing" during the period of mourning for Kim Jong-il. The story, originally reported by the Chosun Ilbo, was picked up by the world's media.[89][90] However, subsequent analysis by Foreign Policy determined the claims most likely originated from a rumour,[91] and NK News observed the story "demonstrates how a single anonymous source can generate a story in the South Korean press, which then gets escalated into all-caps certainties for news outlets such as the Daily Mail."[86]
On 29 August 2013, The Chosun Ilbo reported that North Korean singer Hyon Song-wol was executed by firing squad, together with eleven other performers, including members of the Unhasu Orchestra and Wangjaesan Light Music Band, on the orders of North Korean leader, Kim Jong-un.[92] The story was reported worldwide. It was claimed she was Kim Jong-un's ex-girlfriend, and that she and the others had made pornographic videos.[93][94][95] North Korea's KCNA denied claims that the singer was executed, and a Japanese news magazine reported that she was seen subsequently.[23] On 16 May 2014, Hyon appeared on North Korean television participating in the National Convention of Artists, disproving the rumors.
Anybody else think he is dead going off Trump's comments ?
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It’s almost certainly fabricated propaganda. The press today repeated the claims that he fed his uncle to 120 dogs and that he had someone else thrown into a tank of piranhas. The government want you to view them as unhinged so people don’t consider the rationale behind why they develop nuclear weapons, and to provide a moral blank cheque for any action or sanctions deemed necessary against the country - in which case it would be the millions of civilians who suffer.I don't entirely disagree but executing relatives and political rivals, sometimes with flamethrowers or mortar bombardment, is fairly unhinged.
I expect propaganda by the US but there seems no doubt that he has had political rivals and family members executed even if the methods are propaganda which isn't exactly stable behavior. Although if it is reported in The Mail it is by default a lie.It’s almost certainly fabricated propaganda. The press today repeated the claims that he fed his uncle to 120 dogs and that he had someone else thrown into a tank of piranhas. The government want you to view them as unhinged so people don’t consider the rationale behind why they develop nuclear weapons, and to provide a moral blank cheque for any action or sanctions deemed necessary against the country - in which case it would be the millions of civilians who suffer.
So far had impunity over Biden on Ucrania, the grab them by te pussy locker talk and that he said could kill someone in 5th avenue and no one would do anything.I expect propaganda by the US but there seems no doubt that he has had political rivals and family members executed even if the methods are propaganda which isn't exactly stable behavior. Although if it is reported in The Mail it is by default a lie.
That said imagine Trump if he had as much impunity to act without scrutiny.
The CIA and the IC, in general, are probably wondering how Trump seems to know all this. They penpals? Or they have some outside the WH phone connection?Tweet
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'I just wish him well'. If I had to read anything into that I'd guess that maybe he is ill but not dead?
The fact is no one knows. Seasoned North Korea watchers don't know. They say that there is nothing unusual happening in North at the moment but these same people didn't know that Kim Jong- Il had died until it was officially announced.
North Korea is such an extraordinary country that nobody apart from a few people inside the DPRK know what is actually going on.
The CIA and the IC, in general, are probably wondering how Trump seems to know all this. They penpals? Or they have some outside the WH phone connection?
It's like the book 1984, really. Thought Police and all that. They may not be able to read their minds, but one unwise word and you're in huge trouble.It's somewhat fascinating that a country like North Korea still exists even in 2020. Their grip on the population is incredible.
A lot of the west is like that, aren't we? Turn up at someone's house to find a few dirty dishes, we offer to clean up and before the owner can say yes or no we empty all their bins on to the floor, take a shit and hide it under the carpet, and set fire to one of the drapes. Then we rub our hands together, say "job done" and then grumble that we didn't get a thank you as we leave with all their silver cutlery bulging in our pockets.The relationship between the two Koreas would be a lot better without the USA interfering in their affairs.
But it was never the point to be thanked in the first place. Everything is cold hard geopolitics under the pretense of morality. The West rarely intervenes for morality reasons, it always relates to money and power. Whether it's containing communism or protecting oil interests, there's always a 'hidden' agenda.A lot of the west is like that, aren't we? Turn up at someone's house to find a few dirty dishes, we offer to clean up and before the owner can say yes or no we empty all their bins on to the floor, take a shit and hide it under the carpet, and set fire to one of the drapes. Then we rub our hands together, say "job done" and then grumble that we didn't get a thank you as we leave with all their silver cutlery bulging in our pockets.
What is wrong with communism if the people want it?But it was never the point to be thanked in the first place. Everything is cold hard geopolitics under the pretense of morality. The West rarely intervenes for morality reasons, it always relates to money and power. Whether it's containing communism or protecting oil interests, there's always a 'hidden' agenda.
Not that I think you don't know this @Mr Pigeon . But these discussions are pretty much useless without acknowledging why the West really intervenes in countries.
That's exactly why the West wanted to contain it in other parts of the world. Fear for spreading to the West.What is wrong with communism if the people want it?
Look at Kerala state in India. It's communist. Even in West Bengal they occasionally have a communist government. What is important is that the people have a say. The so called communists countries are in reality authoritarian dictatorships. Not much difference between China and Saudi Arabia in an authoritarian government. Probably Xi could never get away with half the stuff MBS could get away with.
Oh mate I agree, hence the reference to nicking the silver. The "thank you" is because a lot of time the public are told that we're doing it to "bring civilisation to the savages" or deliver democracy, or whatever other bullshit reason has been stuck up as a paper thin veneer over the real reason. It makes it easier for us to accept that we're not primarily over there to plunder resources.But it was never the point to be thanked in the first place. Everything is cold hard geopolitics under the pretense of morality. The West rarely intervenes for morality reasons, it always relates to money and power. Whether it's containing communism or protecting oil interests, there's always a 'hidden' agenda.
Not that I think you don't know this @Mr Pigeon . But these discussions are pretty much useless without acknowledging why the West really intervenes in countries.
A lot of the west is like that, aren't we? Turn up at someone's house to find a few dirty dishes, we offer to clean up and before the owner can say yes or no we empty all their bins on to the floor, take a shit and hide it under the carpet, and set fire to one of the drapes. Then we rub our hands together, say "job done" and then grumble that we didn't get a thank you as we leave with all their silver cutlery bulging in our pockets.
Some good posts.But it was never the point to be thanked in the first place. Everything is cold hard geopolitics under the pretense of morality. The West rarely intervenes for morality reasons, it always relates to money and power. Whether it's containing communism or protecting oil interests, there's always a 'hidden' agenda.
Not that I think you don't know this @Mr Pigeon . But these discussions are pretty much useless without acknowledging why the West really intervenes in countries.
It would be even better without Russia and China interfering, given the choice I'd take living in the South any day and twice on Sunday.The relationship between the two Koreas would be a lot better without the USA interfering in their affairs.
That is why the West Germans built a wall to keep all the westerners from rushing into east Germany.That's exactly why the West wanted to contain it in other parts of the world. Fear for spreading to the West.
East Germany and all nations in the iron curtain were actually authoritarian dictatorships. It's communism in name. Just like China is. It's no more Communist than Saudi Arabia.That is why the West Germans built a wall to keep all the westerners from rushing into east Germany.
Of course. South Korea is more rich and better quality of life now. It's now a democracy but that came very later as for long it's was a brutal dictatorship.It would be even better without Russia and China interfering, given the choice I'd take living in the South any day and twice on Sunday.
Do you think people in South Korea want communism? Or that most in the North want the Kim family?What is wrong with communism if the people want it?
Look at Kerala state in India. It's communist. Even in West Bengal they occasionally have a communist government. What is important is that the people have a say. The so called communists countries are in reality authoritarian dictatorships. Not much difference between China and Saudi Arabia in an authoritarian government. Probably Xi could never get away with half the stuff MBS could get away with.
There wouldn’t be a South Korea without the USThe relationship between the two Koreas would be a lot better without the USA interfering in their affairs.
This is exactly the point. North Korea is the way it is now not because its a Communist country. It's a very brutal authoritarian dictatorship. It also has got nothing to do with brutal authoritarian dictatorship that's why the west wants to invade. If that's so they would have invaded and taken out the most brutal one in the middle East.Do you think people in South Korea want communism? Or that most in the North want the Kim family?
I'm not sure your argument stands up considering 'the West' aren't lining up to invade Trivandarum or Kolkotta.
Spot on. Most of them are reprehensible dictatorships.None of the countries identified as communist today are truly communist. They are paying lip-service to the ideology because it grants them the opportunity to govern via a dictatorship.
That said, you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.
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Kim attended a ceremony marking the completion of a fertilizer plant in Sunchon, South Phyongan Province, according to the media.
He could be the fertilizer. He was there pushing up the daisies.
Sounds like bullshit.