Position he played today is exactly a position he should play in.
21
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We'll see if we sign Pedro, but right now it's tough to argue that we have good enough wingers to keep Herrera out. Memphis out left, Mata coming in off the right and Herrera doing his best Lampard impression as our 10. He's mobile, works hard and makes clever off the ball runs. He'd give us more than Young did and Memphis will do better on the left than as a 10.
Worst case, we get a defensively solid midfield via pressing (Schneiderlin does that well too) rather than just sitting off.
I love herrera but I don't think he's a good option for a classic #10 in our system at all. He's not enough of a goal threat and you lose his main qualities by playing him there. He's a box to box midfielder, and you want him in the middle of the pitch, not being the main playmaker or right behind the striker. He's capable, but Memphis is a lot more suited to that position in terms of strength, hold up play, dribbling and goal threat and creativity. Herrera should be starting of course, just deeper in midfield, not in the hole.
What would you say are his main qualities?
Apparently he got a solid bollocking from Frans Hoek towards the end of the game, anyone know why?
Think the MEN mentioned it too. It was positioning I think. He went running beyond Rooney up front.
Looks like he wanted us to score, who'd have thought it.
Or who knows. Crazy. But maybe he has done something wrong.
Far fetched I know.
Running beyond Rooney could be deceiving because Wayne does drop quite deep naturally. Probably not totally Ander's fault.
He might have done in their eyes, but what they think is wrong and what we think is wrong might be two different things. It's interesting in that MEN articles Luckhurst says Ander was free in space and instead of passing the ball to him Ashley Young passed it to Rooney. Surely if someone is free you pass it to them. No wonder we are struggling to create. Passing for the sake of it to no effect. Some of the players are cowards and are taking the easy option just to keep the boss happy. Yet he is quite happy for his defenders to piss about at the back passing it backwards and forwards. Surely that is more risky.
All that from some article? and from one instance when Young didnt pass it to Herrera?
What I am getting at is not looking at the best option but the easy option. The forward players should be the ones who are allowed to take risks. You can't have just one player doing it. The defenders you want to be dependable, the goalkeeper you want to be dependable and the midfielders sitting in front of the defence the same. Once it gets further up the field we should then be moving about quickly to create space. We are so slow it is easy to defend against. This seems like deja vu.
Look all I'm saying is maybe Herrera has done something wrong. I know its brave to say that here where Herrera is regarded as near saint but there you are.
Frans Hoek seems to be talking a lot to him after games. It is a positive sign, they want him to do well.
He gets shafted around quite a bit, played all 3 positions last year and this year seems to be again the number 10 after playing most of the time as an 8 last year.
I feel a bit for him, will be hard to nail a place down, especially with this 4-4-2 setup.
He gets shafted around quite a bit, played all 3 positions last year and this year seems to be again the number 10 after playing most of the time as an 8 last year.
I feel a bit for him, will be hard to nail a place down, especially with this 4-4-2 setup.
Hm. I think with the potential addition of Pedro, Herrera falls further down the pecking order as Mata is then fighting for AM as well and hes currently a better option. Offers more offensively.
I would guess Herrera was told to sit and not go forwards. Obviously only a guess, but for all his "effort" Herrera isn't very good tactically when it comes to the defensive side of the game. He tends to charge about a bit, rather than thinking about his positioning.
I might be wrong here but iirc, Herrera himself admitted to that as an adaptation problem he was having with LvG's philosophy.
I think he cited Bielsa having coached them to go "chasing/pressing the ball" whereas LvG is all about being in the right position/shape, all the time.
So yeah, he was even more defensively in-disciplined (according to LvG's philosophy) but I think its a bit harsh to call it "not very good tactically/defensively"....because tactically/defensively in Bielsa's system, that entire Athletic side was amazing.
It's definitely his adaptation to a completely different system which caused him problems. He seems an extremely "intelligent" footballer. So I have high hopes for our midfield, if we manage to get them all playing on the same wavelength.
Yeah that is deifinitely a better way of putting it.
Its funny really. A lot of people are going crazy about Herrera not starting but actually, what a great position to be in, having such a strong midfield.
Fingers crossed we can get them playing together.
Yeah, I don't mind who starts - as long as the lineup makes a bit more sense like....playing players in their best position etc.
Also, the only thing which really grates me is players like Smalling/Herrera, who were 2 of our best performers last season, seemingly having to prove themselves over and over again. Whilst 1 or 2 others seem to get a bit of a pass whenever they're fit.
But yeah, that's another debate. Like you said, let's hope the players start clicking soon! It could be great to watch.
T'is a good point. Good thing Smalling played on Saturday. Would have been odd to see possibly three of our most impressive players from last season (De gea, Smalling and Herrera) all not playing. Hoping Herrera starts on Friday.
was our best cm last season, he doesn't need more time to adapt. Should be starting.
even elk born on twitter said it's so obvious that LVG could get more fluid attacking play by bringing on herrera and shifting memphis wide and that the only reason he hasn't done that is because he still doesn't trust the defence.
even elk born on twitter said it's so obvious that LVG could get more fluid attacking play by bringing on herrera and shifting memphis wide and that the only reason he hasn't done that is because he still doesn't trust the defence.
I was surprised when my mate told me on Sunday about our Friday night kick off!
Looking forward to it now. Something different.Yeah, it would give us good control in the middle of the park, in a difficult away fixture, if we have 3 of Schw, Schn, Carrick and Herrera in there (preferably not Carrick and Schw together).
But I can still see the Memphis experiment continuing. Hopefully it either works out soon, or we change things up if it doesn't. Just as long as we don't drop any unnecessary points whilst experimenting. Hence I think Ander will be a sub again.
True. I didn't really consider the time of the match in my original post. We were definitely shutting up shop so you are probably right.
That is likely right, pity we feel we have to sit back against a pretty average Spurs. Hopefully as the teams form picks up we can let the players have their heads a bit.
Probably his energy/pressing, great touch, quick passing to increase the tempo of the game and picking out a man in front, but the more creative players who will(should) create chances, and do little 1-2's to get around the opposition, and his ability to get stuck in and win the ball back. He's a very good outlet to pass the ball to when the midfield is under pressure as he is a quick passer and one little pass out to the right back from him and a few of the opposition are out of position and we can start an attack. He's a pretty creative player himself of course, and he's good at dribbling past a couple of defenders, but it's different in the way Memphis would, and it's more through his smart movement that he gets in a position to score, he picks his moments, compared to Memphis who will get in a goalscoring chance a few times a game. Van Gaal likes his #10's to be the main or second main source of goals/assists, and have all of our attacking play go through them basically. Herrera is a class player, but it just doesn't suit him to play there especially in our system. At least not from the start. He'd just be much better off playing deeper where he can influence the game more.
The way I understand it so far is that Herrera doesn't start because he is too attacking minded and lacks the tactical discipline LvG wants from his players. I would argue though that we could do with a player or two who are just holding their position for 90 minutes. I would favour a return to the 4-3-3 of last season with him and Schneiderlin in front of either Carrick or Schweinsteiger. I feel this would offer us way more in terms of going forward than what we are playing right now but it seems that LvG wants his two defensive mids at any cost. Maybe it's because he wants a PL title in those 3 years he has left and favours a more conservative approach because of it or maybe he just still doesn't trust our defence to do a good job, which I can't really blame him for.
Problem is I think most of them are trying to hold their positions which is likely why the attacks look so futile.
Exactly. There is barely any movement in the team from deeper position. Carrick and Schneiderlin just sit in fron of the defence. The FBs barely move forward, Memphis usually is too high up the pitch to be involved in any kind of build up and it all falls to Young and Mata to make something happen. That's just simply not enough to get through PL-Team defences in most cases. We need that movement from deeper positions that someone like Herrera brings into the team.
Meh says people in the west.I was surprised when my mate told me on Sunday about our Friday night kick off!
Okay. I agree with some of the strengths to his game.
Obviously van Gaal knows 100 times more than me, but I still don't like they way he's setting us up at all.
We have two sitters, two forwards who can't create (and would rather stick to getting the final touch), and two wingers who can't beat their man. It's as if we're set up to keep the ball, create very little, and if we bundle the ball into the goal somehow, through having two forwards... then it's job done.
When you suffocate teams, I think it makes sense to have someone like Herrera ahead of the sitters. He's our most creative player, he can sit on the ball, he isn't focused on scoring goals. I also think he can dribble past men better than Memphis in the congested centre.
Memphis and Rooney as a front two would be brilliant, if we played counter-attacking football, because it requires less creativity and holding of the ball.
I guess we'll have to see who else comes in, and where they all line up, but the team he chose on Saturday was always going to struggle to create chances. I don't know... maybe he's planning to release Schweinsteiger.
Edit: and I don't see Mata as an option in the centre, because he struggles to hold the ball, dribble, create too much.
Hey man! You had me up at shitty times during preseason
Yeah, yeah, I know. The entire competitive calendar is shit for you guys. So I have no reason to complain! I'm just messing about.
To me this is the main issue. Leicester last year knocked the idea of ADM in the middle and we went a lot more safe since then. We haven't reinforced the defence, and while the base of midfield is stronger and offers more protection than last season the defence is still a huge question mark.
That makes sense, now there's no way he'll be part of that midfield 3 for a while.
Good point about our defense. Raises the question why we haven't strenghtened the CB position though.
Sorry I can be a strange bugger. Slipped my mind completely to respond!I was surprised when my mate told me on Sunday about our Friday night kick off!
Yeah, it would give us good control in the middle of the park, in a difficult away fixture, if we have 3 of Schw, Schn, Carrick and Herrera in there (preferably not Carrick and Schw together).
But I can still see the Memphis experiment continuing. Hopefully it either works out soon, or we change things up if it doesn't. Just as long as we don't drop any unnecessary points whilst experimenting. Hence I think Ander will be a sub again.
I think the depay experiment will continue as well. He probably needs a goal to let the shackles off a bit with respect to the new position. I think left wing is a position which involves less burden whereas in the middle you jBe to be so much more aware and adept in tight spaces.
I would have quite liked the Friday night match, but I'm shifting that day so might have to watch it the next day.
FFS, sorry you're missing the match. I'm never able to watch the next day - I can't wait for the score, so I'm always following text or live updates if im unable to watch!
I'd love us to give either Ander or Mata an extended run out in the side at #10.
Happy 26th birthday. Hope it's a good one and enjoy your cake.
Happy birthday Ander! One of my favourite UTD players
Happy birthday Ander!
Hope LVG will make you a cake.
Hope LVG will make you a cake.
Ander will start today I think. van Gaal will be looking at Brugge and he'd want 2 of Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin or Carrick for that.
Aston Villa 0:1 Man Utd
Not brilliant at Villa but what Herrera added when he came on was that ability to link play. Suddenly we began moving the ball in one touch, there was a bit of zip to our play. When it comes to playing #10 there will be other players more naturally inclined to run in behind, to support the striker, to make late runs into the box to score. However, if you want a #10 who is going to drop deep and support your other midfielders, play off them, and find ways to move the ball forward Ander is your guy.
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