So what he's not playing someone who is probably not applying himself properly, he'll either think to himself I'm gonna prove the boss wrong, or he'll sulk like a baby, hopefully it'll be the former, but no great surprise if not.
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 42
- Goals
- 8
- Assists
- 8
- Yellow cards
- 3
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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You know what I mean - he's new to our club - not to management. No matter where you've been before or what you've done, when you go to a new job, you have to prove yourself all over again and also show the organisation that you are trustworthy; not causing problems where there aren't any; and the right person to deliver what they want.Hang on a sec this fecking Jose Mourinho were talking about.
Newbie
The rating system on here is a little like IMDB though, it generally averages out meaning most players are somewhere between 6 and 7 come the end of the season doesn't it? even though if I was to consider it now I would say Ibra has been a 9 and Herrera an 8 my average ratings wouldn't see that out I don't think.I don't really use the rating system. Here's what people have voted for him game by game though:
There is no obsession at all. Just concerns that young players might be handled well by the manager, that's all.
Theres very rarely a time on here there isn't an active thread about a young player. The main concern with Mourinho being our next manager wasn't whether he would win trophies but if Rashford would play. It is very much an obsession compared to other clubs I would say.
Its with good reason though given what youth has done for this club.
The notion that just because Martial is a talented player needs special treatment is something I don't get. There are players who are more proven and experienced a la Mata who's put in great performances for us throughout the season who's benched constantly and Martial's had the frontseat to watch Mkhi's treatment to see how he's proven himself to Jose. He just needs to put his head down and work harder.
Just because we as fans are afraid that a worldclass talent might leave us due to this treatment is no reason to question Mourinho when he's made it work before.
Just because we as fans are afraid that a worldclass talent might leave us due to this treatment is no reason to question Mourinho when he's made it work before.
I think his previous record, why we hired him, deserves, no commands respect and trust. Undermining him would be suicidal.
If he, the proven expert, doesnt think a player should play in a match or two for a reason, then that's how it is. No one else should get involved.
If the suites don't think he's doing what's best for the club they shouldn't have fecking hired him in the first place or should sack him immediately.
It's insane to think otherwise surely.
It's good that you mentioned Mata because he is better than that and should leave for a club that will actually enjoy him.
Pretty much. The reaction in here is insane when it comes to Martial.
This.
I don't understand the treatment of Martial. He was probably the most creative player against Liverpool and then he is now being frozen out. He has certainly performed better than both Mkhitaryan and Mata, who F all in last two matches and yet he is out. It's inexplicable. I guess we will probably see another Kevin De Bruyne situation at this club.
Sort of, which is why its best to look game by game as the ratings are there. Martial had a slow start to the season but general consensus from the ratings is in his last three starts he was one of the best against Reading and Middlesbrough and wasn't the worst against Liverpool.
Agreed 100%
Why go down that route? How many of the great managers have had to do that to make players play well?
If my boss thought bullying me was the only way to make me work well I'd change jobs. That doesn't make me weak or a coward. It's just common sense. Martial isn't English and he didn't grow up supporting United. He's an introverted young lad in a foreign country. He needs someone like SAF to protect him like he did with Ronaldo. Instead he's having to put up with Jose's weirdo mind games.
I think it's fair to have concerns, when it comes to younger players, about a bloke who has a record of getting quick success before leaving things in a mess with an old first team.
He is a proven expert in ultimately failing. He has been sacked by every club except Porto and Inter. He has sold many talented players like Robben and KDB and yet signed mediocre players like Malouda.
Exactly, that's the point of these types of sites. Sure, it could all work out for the best...or he is our version of KDB.
And I don't quite get all the praising of Jose for the Mhki situation. We've gone on an unbeaten run from exactly when he came back into the team...so was Jose right for not playing him early? Or was his freezing out a big part of why we dropped so many points early on?
His movement in the second half against Liverpool was lazy. He could have been the one to get us back in the game but he went into his shell. I think this frustrated Mourinho.
Very interesting, thank you.I don't really use the rating system. Here's what people have voted for him game by game though:
Think the trend is he isn't trusted in away games.
Who is replacing Martial right now? You can't say we're obsessed with youth when the players replacing him are young too. It's not as if Martial is some United youngster. He won the golden ball for his performance last year. He has a great skill set. He's not some random youth player.
TBH, if hes not strong enough to fight for his place and just keeps expecting it, then hes not strong enough for United.
If however, hes willing to work for it, bide his time (after all, hes only 21) then he will be better for it.
If however, hes willing to work for it, bide his time (after all, hes only 21) then he will be better for it.
Its Mourinho's management style. Hes not a tactical charmer like Ancelotti or Poccetino. He doesn't command respect as a great player like Zidane. I could list many management styles but he is the push them man management style like a younger (he adapted) fergie was. You may disagree with his style but at the very least can't be surprised by it. It isn't bullying he has a tremendous amount of respect for the players and speaks of the potential of martial but he gives 100% and demands 100% in return, Martial isn't giving that so players like Lingard and Rashford who can guarantee this will.
I disagree. He's worked hard in his last few games and had clearly turned the corner. Jose's just killed his momentum for no reason
Its about being the best option not the best player as I stated, by saying who is replacing martial like that takes it into a quality debate and quality isn't the reason Martial isn't playing. Martial isn't giving 100% and not grabbing his chances, the manager literally said it but people still seem confused about why he isn't playing. Play at his best and he becomes one of the first names on the team sheet.
I don't think he was that poor in the three games he started, he didn't play to his potential but he also wasn't terrible and yet Lingard has been consistently poor and gets chance after chance, this is the baffling element of Joses decisions.
He hadn't he player exceptionally well against Middlesborough, was decent against Reading the next game. Mourinho sent him on to win the game against Hull and he didn't offer anything then was average against Liverpool. He didn't have any momentum at the point he got dropped.
I thought he improved in his last few games. People are obviously upset because there are players that get played even if they play worse than Martial. I and many others don't like this inconsistent treatment.
I also don't like how people think he looks disinterested as if that matters. I don't care if he looks disinterested, that doesn't mean he is disinterested. Some people are outgoing, others are more quiet. You can't expect every player to operate the same way.
I am not even surprised, I predicted and feared when Mourinho joined United that we could lose Martial.
In theory I can agree with you but people tend to overlook the environment and how a player needs to have the right environment to fulfill his potential. For me it's a mistake to always think that only the team's POV and manager's POV matters, the manager need to think about the players as individuals and he needs to create the right environment, the right relationship otherwise he isn't going to get anything from his player because he won't understand him.
Now maybe he doesn't care, maybe he is willing to bring anyone else to achieve his goals but if that's the manager's mindset then you can't blame the player and both sides should agree to move on.
PS: It's a general thought, not directly linked to Martial-Mourinho.
So being the best player for Manchester United is not enough, he has to play well every game too?
Remember when Robin van Persie went 10 games without scoring? Here's what Fergie had to say:
And this is what happened at Stoke.Manchester United are rallying round their misfiring striker Robin van Persie ahead of Sunday’s awkward-looking trip to Stoke City as Sir Alex Ferguson vows to avoid the ‘carelessness’ that cost them the league title last season.
Van Persie has failed to score in his last 10 games, a run that is likely to cost him becoming Footballer of the Year despite a blistering start to his career at Old Trafford.
Yet it would still be a major surprise if the 29-year-old Dutchman is dropped at the Britannia Stadium today. Victory would see United restore their 15-point advantage over Manchester City after losing 2-1 at home in the derby on Monday night.
Out of luck: Robin van Persie has not scored in the last 10 games
Don't worry: Ferguson is not concerned by Van Persie's form
Ferguson is sensitive to criticism about his leading scorer just because he has not netted for his club since February 10. ‘Listen, Van Persie was fantastic on Monday. Along with Phil Jones he was our best player,’ said Ferguson.
‘I haven’t paid attention to the selections for Footballer of the Year since 1999 when we won the Treble and David Ginola of Spurs was given Player of the Year.
‘For this year, I don’t watch all of the players all the time but, if I had a vote, Van Persie would surely be up there.’
They are expected to be worse though, you know if you play Lingard you are going to get a considerate team performance and good tracking/movement but not much going forward so you play him and although we might think he offers little he is doing what the manager wants. You also can't get the best out of players if you just play them because they are one of your best players, if they aren't at 100% for a few games for whatever the reason you drop them to fuel that hunger, make sure everyone knows the spot is up for grabs, it breeds competition.
Yeah disinterested may be unfair but he does at times not seem ready to go, a lack of interest is probably unfair but lacking that fire might be the better way to word it. He needs that killer instinct so that he knows he is the best player on the pitch and to go for the jugular, if Mourinho can give him that we will all be very grateful.
Martial was having a bad season and played well against middlesborough and reading and people are acting like he has been in great form, its utter rubbish , Depay had a better purple patch than that last season.
RVP doesn't belong in this debate.
I disagree with this. He had a couple of good performances, likewise he had some shockers, like Liverpool game. Basically just inconsistent.
I'm not going to criticize Mourinho when I don't know the ins and outs of the whole thing. He sees Martial in training, he has private conversations with him, he knows what he asks him for during the game and whether Martial is following instructions or not. I am not privy to any of that.
I do hope that Mourinho understands that if his manoeuver/treatment of Martial goes wrong, that comes with a huge cost. Martial is a young, pacy, strong, very talented footballer who has ridiculous potential. Mourinho has to know that while he has the right to manage anyway he wants, someone like Martial is a scarce resource, something not to be taken lightly.
I don't think people who say stuff like 'well if he is not up for it he can leave' really thought this through. You make some allowances for players whose profile is unique and who can be invaluable in the long run. At least you try more than one approach.
Still confident that things will be turned around.
I do hope that Mourinho understands that if his manoeuver/treatment of Martial goes wrong, that comes with a huge cost. Martial is a young, pacy, strong, very talented footballer who has ridiculous potential. Mourinho has to know that while he has the right to manage anyway he wants, someone like Martial is a scarce resource, something not to be taken lightly.
I don't think people who say stuff like 'well if he is not up for it he can leave' really thought this through. You make some allowances for players whose profile is unique and who can be invaluable in the long run. At least you try more than one approach.
Still confident that things will be turned around.
I know we spent £36odd million plus add-ons for him, so it's fair was can expect quite a bit from him, as well as it's his 3rd season now. But we also have to remember he's a very young kid still in terms where many footballers don't spark in the late teens etc.
Just hope Mourinho doesn't get rid of a gem as if i were a betting man i'd bet Mourinho will be gone before Martial's contract runs out with us
So now we can credit his positioning and movement, but it's a result of our style. lol..
He wouldn't see the ball that much if he wasn't making himself available by moving into space. I'm not entirely sure why you find that so difficult to believe. It's piss easy to intercept passes otherwise.
I've never claimed that he can't improve or vary his movement more, that's hardly the argument. For the vast majority of players, there's always areas they can improve, doesn't mean that they are bad at it. I've given you examples, of both Martial and Lingard, to back up my point about player roles depending on opposition, and why movement on the pitch will vary. So far all you have to offer is "I've seen it with my own eyes on the TV".
Your claim was that Martial lacks variation/off the ball movement. I've shown examples of how he clearly doesn't, as the Middlesbrough match easily shows, and that player variation / off the ball movement will always vary depending on opposition due to tactics, which i also backed up with just how much Lingards movement varies depending on opposition.
It wasn't an example of how he's brilliant at making runs.
You have a proper mint view from your sofa.
I'm sure some will blame Martial for not starting his game.
Time will tell if mourinho is getting this right but it's the players like martial who can make the difference, Jose might love the attitude of players like fellaini and lingard but they won't get us anywhere because at their best they are mediocre.
Correct
Sadly that's the Caf logic. Any player under 23 that is not playing is because he is a weak, ill disciplined, money grabbing player who does not deserve to play for Manchester United
Pisses me right off to think we have a talent like Martial sat at home whilst Lingard is stinking the place up in the first team.
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