[el3mel]

What you mean has no legs? Have you not seen the way Mourinho has behaved with him ever since he rocked up to the club? He name checked fecking Felaini as the 'fans will have to learn to love him' crap, but giving Martial any credit is liking pulling teeth for Mourinho.

You can carry on believing this manager's judgment is any good. Good luck with that.

Mourinho favors no one. He started the season with Rashford as a starter and Martial sub most of time. When Rashford dorm dropped massively he was thrown on the bench for months and Martial took his position and became constant starter. I can criticize the way he integrated Sanchez in the team (because he failed in it) but his first intention was to play both Sanchez and Martial in the same team, not to bench him completely. He has praised Martial during the season more than he has criticised.

When some reliable piece of news come with Mourinho not trusting Martial and want him out, or when Martial is completely banished for the team we can talk, but what you did is just putting " Mourinho wanting him out& as a start fact that isn't even eligible for discussion, then move on the main point of discussion which is Mourinho conflict with Ed to keep or sell Martial or not, which is really laughable I must admit.

Your opinions aren't facts, neither are mine.

 

[Damien]

He was not better than Martial, nor will he ever reach the heights that Martial can, and will do (in another team more likely).

Should have just kept it to this season. Last season Sanchez was much better than Martial (not difficult, admittedly) but this season it had been the other way around which ties into what you said about 'demoting' Martial from his position for someone who hadn't been better this season.

 

[Jazz]

Should have just kept it to this season. Last season Sanchez was much better than Martial (not difficult, admittedly) but this season it had been the other way around which ties into what you said about 'demoting' Martial from his position for someone who hadn't been better this season.

I'm sorry Damien, I don't agree that Sanchez was ever that good (my personal opinion). He never gave me that impression that he was great. Yes he's had some moments, but imho not good enough.
And, Yes Martial was not good by his standards last season, but I still would have had him any day over Sanchez because you know the potential of this kid, and this to me is what is most important. Therefore I'm speaking from a different point of view instead of just comparing one season.

 

[Damien]

Sanchez scored 30 goals and had 19 assists in 51 games last season. If Martial could reach such numbers in a season in his career it'd be fantastic but I'm doubtful that'll happen - here under Mourinho at least, anyway.

 

[Jazz]

Sanchez scored 30 goals and had 19 assists in 51 games last season. If Martial could reach such numbers in a season in his career it'd be fantastic but I'm doubtful that'll happen - here under Mourinho at least, anyway.

I would be surprised if any attacker has that output under Mourinho.

You remember when Cristiano Ronaldo came on the scene? You could see the talent but he was bloody frustrating. I may be wrong, but I don't even think he posted the numbers Martial did in his first season here. In any case, Sir Alex knew the talent he had on his hand (not that Martial will be like Ronnie!) - however, he knew how to handle and develop him. He didn't quickly give up on him because he didn't track back enough or whatever. Can you imagine Mourinho tolerating Cristiano at that stage of his development? Wouldn't have happened. Cristiano would have had to leave and we'd have missed out on those wonderful years with him. Isn't that what we love as United fans? To develop our own? Of course not everyone is going to have that talent that's worth investing in and being patient, but when you have someone there with the talent, it is the manager's duty to bring it to fruition, along of course with the player working hard.

What I don't want is for us to sacrifice these types of players for a manager who cannot see what he has in hands and who only prefers blunt workhorses.

 

[Raees]

I would be surprised if any attacker has that output under Mourinho.

You remember when Cristiano Ronaldo came on the scene? You could see the talent but he was bloody frustrating. I may be wrong, but I don't even think he posted the numbers Martial did in his first season here. In any case, Sir Alex knew the talent he had on his hand (not that Martial will be like Ronnie!) - however, he knew how to handle and develop him. He didn't quickly give up on him because he didn't track back enough or whatever. Can you imagine Mourinho tolerating Cristiano at that stage of his development? Wouldn't have happened. Cristiano would have had to leave and we'd have missed out on those wonderful years with him. Isn't that what we love as United fans? To develop our own? Of course not everyone is going to have that talent that's worth investing in and being patient, but when you have someone there with the talent, it is the manager's duty to bring it to fruition, along of course with the player working hard.

What I don't want is for us to sacrifice these types of players for a manager who cannot see what he has in hands and who only prefers blunt workhorses.

Spot on. He would have destroyed a young Ronaldo who would have sulked like crazy under Joses management.

 

[Jazz]

Spot on. He would have destroyed a young Ronaldo who would have sulked like crazy under Joses management.

For sure he would have had a major sulk That is Ronnie!

 

[haram]

Yes Mourinho would have destroyed Ronaldo and not played him like he is doing with Rashford.

 

[el3mel]

I don't really think Martial has 1/4 Ronaldo's ambition and willing to become one of the best in the world when he was going. Talent isn't everything here. Ronaldo has a higher ambition and hard working ethics to succeed. Rashford is more similar to him at this age than Martial. Rashford can be very frustrating at times but still has loads of working hard and keep trying. Martial OS a different kind of player. Big talent, but he's not on Rinaldo's level of hard working yet. Not comparing any talent here.

 

[breakout67]

I don't really think Martial has 1/4 Ronaldo's ambition and willing to become one of the best in the world when he was going. Talent isn't everything here. Ronaldo has a higher ambition and hard working ethics to succeed. Rashford is more similar to him at this age than Martial. Rashford can be very frustrating at times but still has loads of working hard and keep trying. Martial OS a different kind of player. Big talent, but he's not on Rinaldo's level of hard working yet. Not comparing any talent here.

Ronaldo is more talented than Martial, forget about comparing mentality, because Ronaldo is on a different stratosphere when it comes to that.

Putting them anywhere near each other is an insult to Ronaldo. Even Rooney had more talent than Martial, along with a far better mentality.

Nani is a more similar level to Martial than the other two. Unplayable on his day, but only had 1-2 seasons of consistency.

 

[el3mel]

Ronaldo is more talented than Martial, forget about comparing mentality, because Ronaldo is on a different stratosphere when it comes to that.

Putting them anywhere near each other is an insult to Ronaldo. Even Rooney had more talent than Martial, along with a far better mentality.

Nani is a more similar level to Martial than the other two. Unplayable on his day, but only had 1-2 seasons of consistency.

Ronaldo has more talent, but I was trying to avoid a talent comparison between both as much as possible and concentrating on other things that made Ronaldo became what he became.

There are many talent players in world, but there's only one Ronaldo. Not a coincidence.

 

[breakout67]

Ronaldo has more talent, but I was trying to avoid a talent comparison between both as much as possible and concentrating on other things that made Ronaldo became what he became.

There are many talent players in world, but there's only one Ronaldo. Not a coincidence.

Yes, that is very true.

Ben Arfa is extremely talented, but he always had attitude problems. There are many players with lots of talent, what separates the players is their willingness to become better.

 

[Member 90678]

Totally agree - and look at the way Jose cleverly 'sets up' fans so they start turning on a player (or players) for non-commitment and lack of desire. The comments here from last night's performance are full of them.

I sense huge changes this summer - and Jose is priming us for these changes. Some of our so-called 'favourites' will be in the firing line, Martial, maybe Pogba and a few others. At times, our manager is easy to read. When he lays into players for supposed 'lack of desire and personality' etc...there's only one way said players can go - and that's out of Old Trafford.

We had the most ruthless manager run our club for over 25 years!!
No matter how much talent or skill you had if you didn't tow the line/give 100% or were a disruption you were out the door!
Some of the biggest names and fans favourites were shown no mercy and booted out of the club.
This is not a mourinhio "thing" it' just something that top managers do and have done long before mourinhio was managing.

Its about picking the best team and that does not include the best individuals all the time. A team of 11 players playing for each other and working hard will beat a team of 11 individuals playing for themselves.

He watches these players everyday not just 60/90 minutes on a weekend,he can see the ones in training every day busting a gut,looking to learn and listening to instructions and I'm sure those guys will be here next year,as for the others it will be adios!

 

[nemanja15]

Martial was poor yesterday. But I think he’d benefit massively (as would Rashford) from a left back who knows what he’s doing and can defend 1v1 on the occasions he does switch off/is unable to defend, track and cover.

 

[DanDZI]

I consider Martial to be the second most exciting talent at the club (behind Pogba), and I'm quite concerned by the general perception that Sanchez arrival will inhibit his growth or push him out of the club. I could see Sanchez coming in helping Martial move into his preferred position as a LF, but it would need some new tactical flexibility from Mou.

I think the vast majority of us agree that Sanchez, Lukaku and Martial should be on the pitch up top, and Pogba should be on the left side of a three in midfield. Putting those things together the only tactical option I see is something approximating a diamond, with Sanchez at the tip, Lukaku and Martial both as forwards with license to drift out wide. People talk about a diamond being too narrow but we do use wingers as full-backs, and Pogba is pretty lethal coming in from the left wing. If Sanchez starts performing, that could fit a few square pegs in round holes and actually be very positive for Martial?

 

[marktan]

Martial is the best of our wide forwards at the moment, but even then he's just not good enough right now. Mane / Salah, Sane / Sterling are all quite a bit ahead of him at the moment. All of them can dribble well, make runs, and actually go inside and outside, not just have to cut in like Martial needs to.

I know people are criticising our overall attacking play but imo having top wide fowards makes the world of difference. Salah scored 4 yesterday which is great, but the build up to all their goals matters too. For Firminio's goal, Salah was able to beat a man on the outside and put in a great ball, and for one of Salah's goals Mane turned a player inside out and played it to Salah. That sort of attacking from our wide players just doesn't exist. Half of them can't beat a man (Lingard, Mata, Sanchez), the other half can only cut in or half the time can't beat a man (Rashford / Martial).

I was watching a 2003 Ronaldo's highlights for us recently and as raw as he was he was still technically and game-intelligence wise ahead of our wide options.

 

[JPRouve]

It's amazing how many bad thing people have to say about Martial compared to his teammates.

 

[Damien]

It's amazing how many bad thing people have to say about Martial compared to his teammates.

His teammates look more emotive/passionate and stuff judging from the common complaints about Martial.

 

[JPRouve]

His teammates look more emotive/passionate and stuff judging from the common complaints about Martial.

That's so ridiculous. Martial hasn't been great but he has been far better than pretty much all of them a the exception of Lukaku who has been good in the last months, the rest are absolutely shoddy and have been consistently subpar. Funnily enough Lukaku was criticized and consistently scrutinized when he wasn't showing emotions too.

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

when he wasn't showing emotions too.

That was more about that bad period he had where couldn't score in front of an open net. Nothing to do with emotion.

he has been far better than pretty much all of them a the exception of Lukaku who has been good in the last months, the rest are absolutely shoddy and have been consistently subpar.

Rashford has a similar return in both assists and goals. Lingard has outscored him by two, but has five fewer assists. 11 goals and 11 assists is fine for an attack of his age.

 

[Kapardin]

He's a very good player and most of the blame lies on Jose if he is not performing. I support Jose on most issues, but his handling of Martial is concerning and if it drives him out of the club, we will regret it.

First off, either bench Sanchez or play him through the middle/on the right, while starting Martial consistently on the left.

 

[limerickcitykid]

Conversely its amazing that someone can seriously try and say Sanchez was never that good in defence of Martial.

Like feck me. Martial is good and you can defend him but just come on

Not to mention he hasn't been far better than Rashford or Lingard at all.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Quick question for those who are OK with Martial being sold? Name me a winger ton our team that has had a better season than martial?

 

[breakout67]

It's amazing how many bad thing people have to say about Martial compared to his teammates.

You must be living in an alternate reality, virtually everyone except Lukaku, Matic and De Gea is getting completely destroyed.

Pogba is arguably a bigger talent than Martial, and he is getting decimated. In fact, I would say that Martial has the largest section of defenders. There are actually people that treat Martial like the club itself, there are people in here that actually want Martial to play no matter what and everyone in the team to accommodate his every whim.

Contrast the above to what some say about De Gea, they are actually telling him to leave because he is 'too good for us'. Or what people say about Lukaku who has carried our attack in the last 10-15 games, they call him a donkey and should be swapped with Martial.

 

[JPRouve]

You must be living in an alternate reality, virtually everyone except Lukaku, Matic and De Gea is getting completely destroyed.

Pogba is arguably a bigger talent than Martial, and he is getting decimated. In fact, I would say that Martial has the largest section of defenders. There are actually people that treat Martial like the club itself, there are people in here that actually want Martial to play no matter what and everyone in the team to accommodate his every whim.

Contrast the above to what some say about De Gea, they are actually telling him to leave because he is 'too good for us'. Or what people say about Lukaku who has carried our attack in the last 10-15 games, they call him a donkey and should be swapped with Martial.

Unless the caf is an alternate reality, you just have to look at the combined activity in Lingard's and Mata's threads and then compare it to Martial's. Yesterday's game will show you the difference.

 

[Toad]

Martial will be fantastic under the right coach. This is why I’d hate to see him shipped out because it would be so shit watching him play at his ceiling at another club.

 

[breakout67]

Unless the caf is an alternate reality, you just have to look at the combined activity in Lingard's and Mata's threads and then compare it to Martial's. Yesterday's game will show you the difference.

The activity is there because he has so many defenders. Do you think this whole thread is just bashing Martial? No. There has been a back and forth in this thread because he is such a polarizing player.

This thread has some people that think he is just another talented player without the consistency. Others are convinced that he's the second coming of Ronaldo and all you need to do is let him play. Some are in between.

There was actually someone here that said Martial is better than anything Sanchez has ever done...Sanchez got 49 goals and assists last season! Martial has many fans that will defend anything he puts out on the pitch because they are trying to will him into being the best player in the world.

 

[JohnnyKills]

If my boss hired a new guy, renowned for his work and seen as one of the best in the industry, I'd be extremely motivated to become better.

I'm not sure if you are aware, but your place of work is not there to cater to your wants and desires. If my boss isn't trying to improve the average level of his employees then I'd be concerned.

So if you were doing great work, winning contracts and fulfilling your potential, you'd react with equanimity if they brought in someone to replace you?

You're a better person than the majority of people on this forum, that's for sure.

 

[Red_toad]

He was the player who provided our best attacking moments in the game generally. Didn't play well at all, but does seem to have the trust of the players around him. Really needs to step it up, he's at the stage now where he should have plenty of moments during a game where he produces some magic. We all know he's capable, but saying it's all Jose' fault isn't right. Martial get lots of games and a fair whack of freedom, so he needs to start doing something with it.

 

[luke511]

Martial looked great in the first half, awful in the second. I feel the left wingers suffer when Young is playing because he occupys their natural position and they are forced inside. This is obviously Mourinho's tactics and not Young's fault, but I don't think it's a coincidence we play worse football when Young is on the field.

 

[Jazz]

Where are people getting this 'some people' think Martial is Ronaldo or will become like him? People need to read what others have written properly. Ronaldo came into the conversation to show the difference between Fergie's handling of a young talented but inconsistent player, and Mourinho's mishandling of Martial.

 

[ti vu]

Where are people getting this 'some people' think Martial is Ronaldo or will become like him? People need to read what others have written properly. Ronaldo came into the conversation to show the difference between Fergie's handling of a young talented but inconsistent player, and Mourinho's mishandling of Martial.

Different type of players from mentality to begin with.

Ronaldo's problem is to make the good decision when he young. He was not to be told to work hard, or try to take the ball more and run at opposition... to begin with. He was also got dropped so Fletcher played on a winger for the sake of team stability at time when Ronaldo end product ain't warranted the risk of exposing the defense. We're talking about teen Ronaldo. Ronaldo blew Martial out of the water when it came to age to age comparison progress.

Jardim pretty much pointed out Martial's problem with workrate. Martial doesn't always look lively. Ronaldo was annoying because he just wanted to keep the ball and played with it himself.



https://www.theguardian.com/football/2004/jun/23/euro2004.sport

"I've played against Ronaldo in training every day this season and he's no show, believe me," said Neville. "When you talk about Ronaldo, he is the real thing. He's courageous and he never stops wanting the football. If he gets tackled nine times on the bounce, he will still want it the 10th time and he will still want to go past you and believe he can. You should see the bruises and the lumps on his shins, yet he always comes back for more.

"All I know is that he is not going to give me a single second's rest for 90 minutes. It has taken Portugal two games to get him in the team and already it has made them a lot more enthusiastic and vibrant going forward. He looks the danger in the air and the danger on the ground. He looks a danger in all positions. This lad has got a strong left foot, he's got a strong right foot and he can go either way. He can go outside or he can go inside..."

That was assessment after the first season, where Ronaldo was as raw as it gets in term of decision making. Portugal was to play England in Euro and Gary Neville made those comment in pre game interview.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...do-was-reduced-to-tears-by-sir-alex-ferguson/

Ronaldo was pushed, but the senior members, by SAF himself. It's no easy going. He was challenged, toughen up.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ss-relentless-Ronaldo-redefined-football.html

Different problem altogether: Ronaldo tried too hard, but he didn't have the maturity, the understanding of the game at that moment. Problem never was the effort. Gary Neville pretty much confirmed and was consistent on the story. People (players in the team) were annoyed at him doing too much but doing it the wrong way (RVN bust up with him was one of another). Once he put that desire to good use, Gary put it as if it feels like a change overnight.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

I think what bugs me the most about Martial is how he more often than not, tries to do the most difficult things.
Little 1-2 passes against a tight defence, dribbling past 2 players, etc

He has incredible talent though, he is very inconsistent but that can be forgiven, being in and out of the team all the time, and being played in various positions.

 

[Return of the Manc]

The reason that fans of Anthony Martial are overly protective is simple:

When you see the fact that the lad is a striker who drifts slightly to the left hand side & you see a striker like Lukaku who plays centrally yet is good at drifting to the right; you conclude that there is something wrong with the manager when you have yet to see both play in a partnership.

The same goes for Rashford. Rashford, Martial, Lukaku, hell even Lingard has shown it before- under the correct formation these players have the ability to build partnerships and understandings with each other; like the 352 played against Chelsea - that was never seen again.

Very simple managerial mistakes that arises for stubbornness leads to a protective attitude over Martial because ultimately you feel that the manager has not given him nor Rashford (who is lucky to be from our youth system) a fluid system that combines their talents together.

Martial-Lukaku

or

Rashford - Lukaku

or

Martial- Rashford

upfront?

Like why not? why is this 2000's manager complaining about mentality and what not when he can't even do the most ridiculously obvious?

 

[tjb]

Does anyone else think that Martial is kinda like Henry and we are maybe wasting him on the flanks like what used to happen to Henry. I'm not saying he's good as a lone striker either, but is it possible that he's a 442 type of striker. He has similar attributes, and lacks the experience or hold up ability to play alone up front.

 

[LeftyBlaster]

If we played against a Martial coached by Pep or Klopp or Poch we would be in fear of him. That’s all. Jose is not coaching him right.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I'm starting to worry about the sheer amount of rumors circulating the Martial is going to be part of the summer clear-out by Jose. Seen a few different outlets reporting as much on Twitter then in the Mail / Independent and so on. I don't normally pay attention to media rumors, but there seems to be a different feel this time over Martial. I think this would be a major error, the lad is a brilliant talent and it would be an absurd decision to let him go. Please get him tied down to a new deal asap.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Does anyone else think that Martial is kinda like Henry and we are maybe wasting him on the flanks like what used to happen to Henry. I'm not saying he's good as a lone striker either, but is it possible that he's a 442 type of striker. He has similar attributes, and lacks the experience or hold up ability to play alone up front.

Yep he's always looked better as a striker IMO

 

[Boy Wonder]

I don’t know if this has already been mentioned but I would be surprised to see Martial play again in the league this season. It was reported in the papers that he need one more league goal before we had to pay Monaco £/€8.5m and coveneinently he had an injury a day before the last two league games that we were involved in but available for the cup cups games we’ve played since. Maybe looking too much into this but if he is going to be sold or he is not signing a new contract that it would make sense although it would be a mistake to let him go as the potential is there and under the right management could be a world beater.

 

[el3mel]

I don’t know if this has already been mentioned but I would be surprised to see Martial play again in the league this season. It was reported in the papers that he need one more league goal before we had to pay Monaco £/€8.5m and coveneinently he had an injury a day before the last two league games that we were involved in but available for the cup cups games we’ve played since. Maybe looking too much into this but if he is going to be sold or he is not signing a new contract that it would make sense although it would be a mistake to let him go as the potential is there and under the right management could be a world beater.

As if this 8m will make the club bankrupt or something. How can you actually believe this ?