Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

[soapythecat]

I think he’s got 3 games to improve something. Sunday is a given because we’ve not shown anything in months to suggest we can get even a goal at Anfield. The following 2 games we can easily lose too, which puts him firmly in the sack zone.
Come on Eric man, play two holding midfielders and try and hold on to a game for once. I’m one of the many that wants him to succeed here and still hopes he can.

 

[Redstain]

I think he’s got 3 games to improve something. Sunday is a given because we’ve not shown anything in months to suggest we can get even a goal at Anfield. The following 2 games we can easily lose too, which puts him firmly in the sack zone.
Come on Eric man, play two holding midfielders and try and hold on to a game for once. I’m one of the many that wants him to succeed here and still hopes he can.

If there's any hope for him he did mention in his comments his focus is on improving the teams performance. That does rectify the notion of him saying the team has been playing well in recent post match interviews, he likely doesn't truly believe it and perhaps wants to avoid losing morale with more players. The record though for being near half way through the season is appalling and it will likely continue the team have to perform better as a unit to safe his job.

 

[Lee565]

I can't believe how badly ten hag has screwed this opportunity up, the bar was not even that high for him when he took, all had to do was have us playing like an actual progressive attack minded footballing side, we weren't asking for him to deliver trophies for the first few seasons just to have us looking semi competitive on the front foot against city, Liverpool, arsenal and European sides but there is no signs of that or winning trophies any time soon.

I know we are suppose to believe that mysterious forces behind the scenes has ordered him to commit to only being allowed to play the "united way" but I don't buy that when every manager before had no issues playing to their management still for good or bad and surely with the current mess the side is in, there would be nobody behind the scenes that would stand in his way of trying something different to avoid another catastrophic season if they really had been shackling him to a style that is failing.

 

[Thiagoal]

I think he’s got 3 games to improve something. Sunday is a given because we’ve not shown anything in months to suggest we can get even a goal at Anfield. The following 2 games we can easily lose too, which puts him firmly in the sack zone.
Come on Eric man, play two holding midfielders and try and hold on to a game for once. I’m one of the many that wants him to succeed here and still hopes he can.

I think he’s so wedded to what he wants to do and bought in players for his ideology there’s no way he’ll change formation. This stubbornness will ultimately lead to him being sacked!

 

[Rista]

I can't believe how badly ten hag has screwed this opportunity up, the bar was not even that high for him when he took, all had to do was have us playing like an actual progressive attack minded footballing side, we weren't asking for him to deliver trophies for the first few seasons just to have us looking semi competitive on the front foot against city, Liverpool, arsenal and European sides but there is no signs of that or winning trophies any time soon.

Very true. If we were doing what Ange is doing, showing clear sings of change and improvement even if it's inconsistent, manager would get nowhere near as much criticism. Not even 10% of what he's rightly getting now. THEN we could say we're unlucky with injuries, then we could say give him time to see what happens. We don't need a cup, couldn't care less about the damn league cup. There's a reason we used to laugh at it and call it the Mickey Mouse cup.

 

[Lennon7]

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Seeing this video reminded me of how we used to speak about Anderson. We’ve always had such hard working players, Park loses the ball at the beginning and immediately turns and runs to win it back, Rooney was Rooney, Evra, Vidic, Fletcher all amazing off the ball. And we used to give Anderson stick for not having that same focus and drive and work rate.

We’ve now pretty much got a team of Andersons. You just don’t see a single player consistently having that work rate, especially this season under Ten Hag.

 

[Oranges038]

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Seeing this video reminded me of how we used to speak about Anderson. We’ve always had such hard working players, Park loses the ball at the beginning and immediately turns and runs to win it back, Rooney was Rooney, Evra, Vidic, Fletcher all amazing off the ball. And we used to give Anderson stick for not having that same focus and drive and work rate.

We’ve now pretty much got a team of Andersons. You just don’t see a single player consistently having that work rate, especially this season under Ten Hag.

Forgot about that tackle from Scholes. He'd had enough.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

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Seeing this video reminded me of how we used to speak about Anderson. We’ve always had such hard working players, Park loses the ball at the beginning and immediately turns and runs to win it back, Rooney was Rooney, Evra, Vidic, Fletcher all amazing off the ball. And we used to give Anderson stick for not having that same focus and drive and work rate.

We’ve now pretty much got a team of Andersons. You just don’t see a single player consistently having that work rate, especially this season under Ten Hag.

He would've been 21 surely? Practically a footballing pensioner.

 

[ti vu]

Very true. If we were doing what Ange is doing, showing clear sings of change and improvement even if it's inconsistent, manager would get nowhere near as much criticism. Not even 10% of what he's rightly getting now. THEN we could say we're unlucky with injuries, then we could say give him time to see what happens. We don't need a cup, couldn't care less about the damn league cup. There's a reason we used to laugh at it and call it the Mickey Mouse cup.

Harsh word, but I don't disagree outside of wording/phrasing.

We do love some small trophies as confidence building for the squad and adding to club achievement cabinet. However, those things are get out of jail card in this age when the team and manager turn in disastrous class of the following season. And it's not only the result, but overall tactic, team development, performance. Injuries and everything, we're not fielding half or more of the starting XI with academic players. We have enough experienced squad players to tune in a team playing with an identity even if it's at lower level. Our football has been simply all over the place.

 

[dutchred]

I believe that ETH is a good coach and knows what he wants. He showed this at the hghest level at Ajax. AT Ajax he had good DOF ( Overmars). When he came here he quickly recognised the areas of improvement
Goalkeeper
Left fullback as back up to Shaw
Central defenders
Defensive midfielder
Box to Box midfielder
Right wing
Centre Forward

Without a DOF to turn to he went for players with whom he was acquainted
Onana obvious choice but a DOF would have done better
Malacia Good cheap backup
Martinez a good choice
Varane don't thisnk he would have beeb first choice but was avaiable. A good DOF would have looked into his performance since RAmos left and his fitness levels
Mount Played a lot for Vitesse as a 8 or 10 as required, Obviously not an 8 in the PL
Obviously he knew Antony, but would a good DOF have chosen him, especially at the price we were willing to pay
We needed an experinced striker.

If we get a good DOF and correct the mistakes we have made, ETH could take us forward

 

[Alex99]

I believe that ETH is a good coach and knows what he wants. He showed this at the hghest level at Ajax. AT Ajax he had good DOF ( Overmars). When he came here he quickly recognised the areas of improvement
Goalkeeper
Left fullback as back up to Shaw
Central defenders
Defensive midfielder
Box to Box midfielder
Right wing
Centre Forward

Without a DOF to turn to he went for players with whom he was acquainted
Onana obvious choice but a DOF would have done better
Malacia Good cheap backup
Martinez a good choice
Varane don't thisnk he would have beeb first choice but was avaiable. A good DOF would have looked into his performance since RAmos left and his fitness levels
Mount Played a lot for Vitesse as a 8 or 10 as required, Obviously not an 8 in the PL
Obviously he knew Antony, but would a good DOF have chosen him, especially at the price we were willing to pay
We needed an experinced striker.

If we get a good DOF and correct the mistakes we have made, ETH could take us forward

Ole signed Varane.

 

[DepaysCowboyHat]

I believe that ETH is a good coach and knows what he wants. He showed this at the hghest level at Ajax. AT Ajax he had good DOF ( Overmars). When he came here he quickly recognised the areas of improvement
Goalkeeper
Left fullback as back up to Shaw
Central defenders
Defensive midfielder
Box to Box midfielder
Right wing
Centre Forward

Without a DOF to turn to he went for players with whom he was acquainted
Onana obvious choice but a DOF would have done better
Malacia Good cheap backup
Martinez a good choice
Varane don't thisnk he would have beeb first choice but was avaiable. A good DOF would have looked into his performance since RAmos left and his fitness levels
Mount Played a lot for Vitesse as a 8 or 10 as required, Obviously not an 8 in the PL
Obviously he knew Antony, but would a good DOF have chosen him, especially at the price we were willing to pay
We needed an experinced striker.

If we get a good DOF and correct the mistakes we have made, ETH could take us forward

Solskjaer signed Varane.

 

[croadyman]

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Yeah Murtough knows he will probably be out in the new year so doesn’t want the responsibility

 

[pocco]

Guessing when he said to sign him, it was for the £40million figure branded about. Someone obviously got carried away in the negotiations, which ETH had nothing to do with of course and somehow we ended up paying double.

If we are going to attribute blame to people, let's make sure it's stuff they are at fault for. ETH wanted Antony, hasn't worked out. ETH didn't pay £80million for him though. How do you know he wasn't pulling his hair out when he heard the fee?

Can you honestly not remember how that transfer played out? We attempted to sign him for a smaller fee, they said no and that it would take 'X amount' as they'd sold too many and didn't want to sell any more. Their then manager talked about it to the media and said he won't be sold. We went back near the end of the window and paid that exact amount. It was very widely reported at the time and they even said we'd spent from the following seasons budget, which meant we used further credit. And, if I recall, this was reflected in the clubs accounts. Honestly, everybody knew Antonys price early on, 100% ETH knew what he was costing. Their manager had a meltdown after he was sold when they'd told him he wouldn't be unless a crazy fee came in.

I'm pretty sure you remember all of this, surely. Which displays the lengths you are going to absolve him of blame. It's ridiculous to even claim Ten Hag didn't know any his fee. There were even reports he insisted on signing him.

 

[SirCactus]

You ideally don't judge a manager on a pass/fail binary. There are objectives, and you judge them based on whether they achieved them and/or how close they got.

The minimum objective at a top club is to qualify for the Champions League. Klopp achieved that in his first full season. He has achieved that in all but one full season.

The maximum objective is to win titles. If you don't, you are judged by how close you got, how competitive the team is. Klopp got Liverpool to a CL final in his second full season. That is an achievement even if they did not win.

Ten Hag is under fire because, right now, qualifying out of the CL group stages and finishing in the top 4, which are the minimum objectives, are looking unlikely.

Klopp's achievements are indisputable. However, it is not helping ETH to constantly compare him with Liverpool's elite manager (and whether we like it or not, he is an elite manager). It is really depressing to see so many utd 'fans' writing off our chances at Anfield. You would think they know nothing about the unique ability of the Premier League to throw up shock results, week in, week out. Why can't we go there and do to Liverpool what Bournemouth did to us? We have a strong squad and a tactically astute manager. The history of this rivalry demands that we go there to have a go. If you can't support the team on Sunday, stay away from MUFC when we are back on top - as we will be. Up the Devils, plastic fans be damned.

 

[Borys]

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Seeing this video reminded me of how we used to speak about Anderson. We’ve always had such hard working players, Park loses the ball at the beginning and immediately turns and runs to win it back, Rooney was Rooney, Evra, Vidic, Fletcher all amazing off the ball. And we used to give Anderson stick for not having that same focus and drive and work rate.

We’ve now pretty much got a team of Andersons. You just don’t see a single player consistently having that work rate, especially this season under Ten Hag.

BTW in recent Rio Ferdinand video on his YT channel he made an interesting point on this. He mentioned the coach would bash him for not pushing himself 100% in training (not because he was lazy, but because he was so good 90% was enough). And because of that, his body would not be used to that extra 10% what eventually causes injuries more likely to happen. And he mention Anderson as the guy who always struggled to push himself like that.

 

[el3mel]

Tottenham have lost like 4 or 5 games in a row and they're still comfortably ahead of us in the table despite us just finishing a pretty easy run. Now we're starting a very difficult one.

It won't be a surprise if by the end of December we're 8th or 9th.

 

[erikcred]

Okay, I'm going to assume you're not an opposition fan trying to wum.

We have a strong squad and a tactically astute manager.

Getting difficult to maintain this assumption.

Why can't we go there and do to Liverpool what Bournemouth did to us?

Depends on what you think Bournemouth did to us. Do you think the 3 goals fell out of the sky magically or do you think that they worked very very hard and came prepared with a good game plan?

The history of this rivalry demands that we go there to have a go. If you can't support the team on Sunday, stay away from MUFC when we are back on top - as we will be. Up the Devils, plastic fans be damned.

The rivalry continued during our dominant years because Liverpool teams at their worst always always made a fist of this game. The way we were always up for this game during their glory days in the 80s.

That's all gone now. We're just Everton to them over the last 5-6 years. Sure, we occasionally win or hold them to a draw. But there's no rivalry anymore except of course to real fans like you. Plus of course, Sky, because they need the hype around the game. The same way the Manchester derby is always hyped up when we have exactly the same likelihood of getting points off them as any randomly chosen bottom half club.

 

[El Jefe]

His biggest issue for me from the very beginning is he seems to make decisions for the team not factoring suitability for the PL in his process. To do that in the first season, fair enough but to double down on it and arguably even worse in his second season is unacceptable.

The first three signings were Malacia, Eriksen and Martinez. We all thought Eriksen would be an AM but ETH has used him as a CM only, while this can work in home games we've paid the price for that in many games.

Martinez is a player that many of us love but being truthful his lack of pace and height means he will never really be that great in a back two in the PL. I always found it interesting how Arteta wanted him also but for a completely different role. Arsenal and Spurs have Gabriel and Van de Ven, you might argue they aren't as good as Martinez but their qualities are more suited for the league and lead to less weaknesses being exposed.

He did the same thing with Mount. Just like Eriksen, I was amazed that his plan was to play him alongside Bruno. The only people who are surprised it's not worked especially with Casemiro as the lone DM are EtH and the blind followers who believe everything the manager does.

I think you could write a book about how badly ETH has failed to understand the PL. That is his single biggest weakness, teams that play us see a tactical setup that gives them opportunities and ETH has nothing in place to mitigate this. The post match interviews of opposing managers talking about us is a joke as they always seem to highlight that they've worked on exposing our gaps.

 

[Malone_Post]

His biggest issue for me from the very beginning is he seems to make decisions for the team not factoring suitability for the PL in his process. To do that in the first season, fair enough but to double down on it and arguably even worse in his second season is unacceptable.

The first three signings were Malacia, Eriksen and Martinez. We all thought Eriksen would be an AM but ETH has used him as a CM only, while this can work in home games we've paid the price for that in many games.

Martinez is a player that many of us love but being truthful his lack of pace and height means he will never really be that great in a back two in the PL. I always found it interesting how Arteta wanted him also but for a completely different role. Arsenal and Spurs have Gabriel and Van de Ven, you might argue they aren't as good as Martinez but their qualities are more suited for the league and lead to less weaknesses being exposed.

He did the same thing with Mount. Just like Eriksen, I was amazed that his plan was to play him alongside Bruno. The only people who are surprised it's not worked especially with Casemiro as the lone DM are EtH and the blind followers who believe everything the manager does.

I think you could write a book about how badly ETH has failed to understand the PL. That is his single biggest weakness, teams that play us see a tactical setup that gives them opportunities and ETH has nothing in place to mitigate this. The post match interviews of opposing managers talking about us is a joke as they always seem to highlight that they've worked on exposing our gaps.

Absolutely on the money.

The worst thing about it though?…He said this an interview in 2020…

‘Only once in his career has Pep made a mistake – in his first year at Manchester City when he completely underestimated the power and speed of the Premier League’

 

[amolbhatia50k]

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Seeing this video reminded me of how we used to speak about Anderson. We’ve always had such hard working players, Park loses the ball at the beginning and immediately turns and runs to win it back, Rooney was Rooney, Evra, Vidic, Fletcher all amazing off the ball. And we used to give Anderson stick for not having that same focus and drive and work rate.

We’ve now pretty much got a team of Andersons. You just don’t see a single player consistently having that work rate, especially this season under Ten Hag.

Not showing up for me but under Fergie while we were usually winning trophies the most consistent and reliable fact of his tenure was that Manchester United left everything they had on the pitch. Whether the absolute best year's or the fag end where zombie passing was coined, I always knew we would fight hard. That's the biggest sea change for me. Especially since Ole's last year till now - where it's common to see us walked over, become submissive and lack effort.

That's why the potential change of manager doesn't excite me one bit. This team this club now has a culture that's absolutely rotten. Where it's the done thing for players to half arse it for an undeserved pay check, where we genuinely seem to suffer from some form of PTSD. Part of me wants to allow the manager to 'win' this battle and at the very least set that ethic in place before his time here ends. His sacking would represent a win for this bunch of slackers who can go back to cleaning their slate and working their PR teams to build up a bright future for the club where they somehow have a place

 

[TsuWave]

I believe that ETH is a good coach and knows what he wants. He showed this at the hghest level at Ajax. AT Ajax he had good DOF ( Overmars).

If we get a good DOF and correct the mistakes we have made, ETH could take us forward

People talk about his stint at Ajax like it's the stuff of legends. All due respect, it is the Eredivisie and it is Ajax (they have been a dominant force there for so long). Yes, they hadn't won the league for some years before he took over, but they were clearly not far off it - they'd finish second, 1 point off the champions the season before he took over. He got to the semis of the 18/19 CL, but then went out in the group stages of the CL in both 19/20 and 20/21 - being dispatched from Europa League by Getafe and Roma respectively.

His CV doesn't really match-up with the way people talk of/perceive him. The most impressive thing were some performances showed good football, but the guy has already said he's not going to play that way here - so what we're left with is not really impressive

Also, as it has been previously mentioned in this thread - the guy seemingly can't coach the players he found here, can't coach the players he brought in - having some influence on transfers - but somehow the structure that will distance him from recruitment will magically find the players he can coach?

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

Glazers : We need you to be the new manager, here is A,B and C to help you start.
New manager : But you wont be around to ensure i get A,B and C pretty soon.
Glazers : So hey erik, we need you be at least hold the line a bit longer yet, while we tr
ETH : its 4-1-6 baby!!

Is our average tenure even 2 years?

Moyes less than 1, LvG exactly 2, Mourinho just shy of 2.5, Ole probably around 2.5 as permanent manager, and Ten Hag is yet to hit 1.5.

The answer isn't sack managers more frequently.

You can't simultaneously recognise the need for any level of rebuild and then expect a manager (especially of the calibre we're likely to attract) to turn it around inside two seasons.

No bruh, all we actually wanted was not to turn into it even more. Giving him another 1 billion, another 3 season will not make him a klopp, you will however, end up with 2 more anthonys, 3 masons and probably a couple of onanas. But hey, every one of our sacked managers are setting the world alight don't they now?

 

[RedBanker]

Considering that this will be his last game in charge, just hope he shows some courage in tactics and selections.

 

[Remember the geese]

Considering that this will be his last game in charge

No chance

 

[kouroux]

True enough. But I prefer to be optimistic and be disappointed about the result, rather than be miserable, expect a battering just so I can somewhat happy I was right.

Liverpool can be got at and do give away chances. There will be chances to score, just need to take them when they come.

Expecting a battering doesn't necessarily means one would be happy about being right

 

[croadyman]

Expecting a battering doesn't necessarily means one would be happy about being right

Yeah I will be walking into that ground tomorrow with zero expectations and hoping for a Christmas miracle,much like the one which got me a ticket

 

[kouroux]

Yeah I will be walking into that ground tomorrow with zero expectations and hoping for a Christmas miracle,much like the one which got me a ticket

Good luck bro!

 

[Judas]

Considering that this will be his last game in charge, just hope he shows some courage in tactics and selections.

To be fair the last thing we want is courageous tactics tomorrow. Actually being smart, playing compact, sitting back and trying to break well would be the best way to actually get something.

 

[DJ_21]

Considering that this will be his last game in charge, just hope he shows some courage in tactics and selections.

He survived a 7-0 last year. Unless it’s a similar scoreline he’ll stay put. If we lose by a goal then he’ll stay as we’re expected to get beat anyway.

 

[DJ_21]

To be fair the last thing we want is courageous tactics tomorrow. Actually being smart, playing compact, sitting back and trying to break well would be the best way to actually get something.

I agree. Liverpool play a high line so countering would be best and would probably suit us with pace. I’d go Garnacho, Rashford and Antony to start with. Think Rashford through the middle will cause there defence problems.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

I agree. Liverpool play a high line so countering would be best and would probably suit us with pace. I’d go Garnacho, Rashford and Antony to start with. Think Rashford through the middle will cause there defence problems.

Has Rashford against VvD ever worked?

If he starts, put him on the left and let him run at TAA. We don’t want a repeat of last season.

 

[Oranges038]

Expecting a battering doesn't necessarily means one would be happy about being right

For some that might be the case.

But for a lot they'll most certainly be happy if they are right, they'll also be extremely happy to take a good beating if it means ETH gets sacked.

 

[Oranges038]

To be fair the last thing we want is courageous tactics tomorrow. Actually being smart, playing compact, sitting back and trying to break well would be the best way to actually get something.

Palace setup the right way against them. They dropped back, packed the middle and made them play around the box, with no space to get in behind. Then look to hit them on the break.

They lack creativity and guile in midfield. Klopp pushed TAA into midfield to try and bring a spark of creativity but all he did was ping long balls forward. They were getting nothing until the ref decided to send Ayew off for two nothing yellows. And possibly could have been more than 1 goal down if it weren't for poor finishing and Allison making a couple of good saves.

Don't try and press them high or go toe to toe with them. They rely on teams breaking shape and games getting scrappy.

 

[Pronewbie]

This all reminds me a bit of the Ole gauntlet in his final weeks.

 

[DJ_21]

Has Rashford against VvD ever worked?

If he starts, put him on the left and let him run at TAA. We don’t want a repeat of last season.

I remember a few years ago. Think it was under Solskjær, Rashford bullied VVD. That was through the middle but when we played that 3-5-2 and Solskjær used split strikers. I agree with you though. Rashford does tend to get the better of Trent down the left. The thing is though if that happened then Klopp will just move Trent into midfield like he has been doing recently.

 

[Pickle85]

Glazers : We need you to be the new manager, here is A,B and C to help you start.
New manager : But you wont be around to ensure i get A,B and C pretty soon.
Glazers : So hey erik, we need you be at least hold the line a bit longer yet, while we tr
ETH : its 4-1-6 baby!!

No bruh, all we actually wanted was not to turn into it even more. Giving him another 1 billion, another 3 season will not make him a klopp, you will however, end up with 2 more anthonys, 3 masons and probably a couple of onanas. But hey, every one of our sacked managers are setting the world alight don't they now?

Regularly fielding 12 players is a surefire way to get sacked tbf.

 

[AndySmith1990]

For some that might be the case.

But for a lot they'll most certainly be happy if they are right, they'll also be extremely happy to take a good beating if it means ETH gets sacked.

You're making up rubbish for the sake of using it as an excuse to lambast others who say anything negative.

I think our team is terrible, the manager is terrible, and we'll be on the end of many more thrashings this season. Does any of that make me happy? No. I was happy when Fergie was here winning trophies and we had a team of committed, talented and professional players.

I want Ten Hag sacked because I care more for the plight of the club I love than I do about any individual. Will it make me happy when he's sacked? No. There's nothing to be happy about regarding this club right now.

Weirdos who pick sides and make it personal always fall into the trap of thinking it's some fanboy battle, where one side will celebrate pathetic shit like us losing a game so we can gloat, or vice versa.

Adults whose focus is on the wellbeing of the club. Whatever gives us the best chance of improvement must be done. All this juvenile back and forth fanboy bollocks detracts from what matters most

 

[Oranges038]

You're making up rubbish for the sake of using it as an excuse to lambast others who say anything negative.

I think our team is terrible, the manager is terrible, and we'll be on the end of many more thrashings this season. Does any of that make me happy? No. I was happy when Fergie was here winning trophies and we had a team of committed, talented and professional players.

I want Ten Hag sacked because I care more for the plight of the club I love than I do about any individual. Will it make me happy when he's sacked? No. There's nothing to be happy about regarding this club right now.

Weirdos who pick sides and make it personal always fall into the trap of thinking it's some fanboy battle, where one side will celebrate pathetic shit like us losing a game so we can gloat, or vice versa.

Adults whose focus is on the wellbeing of the club. Whatever gives us the best chance of improvement must be done. All this juvenile back and forth fanboy bollocks detracts from what matters most

I don't pick any sides, I agree this squad is terrible, but I don't agree right now that the best thing for the club now is to sack ETH. The best thing for the club is to put the structure in place, gut this squad and start over, take a few years of 7th/8th placed finishes and build a team that will peak in 3-4 years time. Utd are 6th, and still you have people who can't accept that this team just isn't any better than that. It's going to take a few years to build a winning team that will play consistently week in week out for a few seasons. Let him continue to gut it and if he can't finish the job and rebuild with a proper structure, then bring someone else in.

We'll see tomorrow about how many will be joyously thumping their chests about being right.

 

[SirScholes]

And who has kept Martial at the club as one of our 2 strikers to choose from for the last 7 years? It's him, Rashford (who's been shit all season) or Hojlund (who hasn't scored a single league goal yet). Not saying Martial is the right choice of the 3, but our striker situation has been shit for years before ETH came along. So like I say, there has to be a long term plan in place between managers if you're going to keep changing them

The managers