F1 2022 Season

[pauldyson1uk]

Mercedes boss Toto Wolff says he expects the FIA and its president Mohammed Ben Sulayem to show "integrity and leadership" if teams breached F1's 2021 budget cap.

The sport's governing body is expected to publish next week its audit review of each team's 2021 budgets, but rumors are swelling in Singapore that two teams – Red Bull and Aston Martin – exceeded F1's $145 million cost limit.

Red Bull in particular is believed to have significantly breached its budget's mandatory limit. In Aston Martin's case, a minor transgression could result in a multi-million dollar fine.

But a major violation by Red Bull entails an array of sanction, including loss of points, financial fines and even an exclusion from the F1 world championship for team and driver.

Wolff: FIA must show 'integrity' if teams breached cost cap (f1i.com)

 

[Abizzz]

Max is on course for the most * championships in history.

Max Verstappen Superstar.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

No fault of max, but another championship tainted. Ferrari will be pushing hard for RB to be disqualified frm championship. Only way for leclerc to become champion.

A £5mil overspend is equivalent to half a second, you can see why ferrari will be howling for blood.

I bet there not the only ones either.

 

[rimaldo]

not the way lewis would have wanted to win his 8th world championship.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

 

[altodevil]

Timesheets still retarded. Always 1 step forward 2 steps back with this American ownership.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Latifi The sooner he's gone the better.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

After Christian Horner remained adamant that Red Bull had not gone over the cost cap, Mercedes Team Principal Toto Wolff was quick to respond that Horner's team are being investigated

Here is what they could face if found in breach of the regulations:

"Funny that Christian (Horner) has said that because it has been weeks and months that they are being investigated," said Wolff.

"He mustn't speak to his CFO.

"All of us have been investigated thoroughly and, as we understand, a team is being investigated for a minor breach which is procedural and another team that is fundamentally massively over.

"That is an open secret in the paddock.

"I think there is a governance in place that is very solid that the FIA have set up and you are going to be issued a certificate of compliance and if you are not compliant it goes to the cost cap adjudication panel.

"Then the panel judges and they can choose from these penalties the appropriate one.

"The crucial part is that if you have been over in 2021 then you have been over in 2022 and that means you have an advantage into 2023.

"This is heavyweight stuff.

"We are using used parts, we are not running what we want to run, we are not developing what we could be developing.

"We have made more than 40 people redundant in our organisation and it was a huge, mammoth operation to make the cap.

"I don't know how many tens of millions we had to restructure and reprocess to be below the cap and if someone has been not doing that or pushing the boundaries then every million is a massive disadvantage.

"It is not for me to judge what the penalties could be, the judges have all that scope to analyse but I wouldn't want to be in their position given the impact over three years."

 

[rimaldo]

it’s only light treason.

 

[Cheimoon]

FIA have a massive headache here, if they do nothing, the other teams will do the same and say well you never did anything to RB and AM.
They have to apply some sort of penalty and one big enough to deter other teams from doing the same, but what they do is another matter.
Maybe fines for the teams and /or point deduction from Constructors Championship, no points from drivers, after all budget is not in their hands.

Budget is not in the drivers' hands, but so is a lot of car development - and car development does determine their performance to a very large extent. So if Red Bull went over budget and spent more money on car improvements than they had a right to, then maybe Verstappen had a better car than he should have had, and should have finished one or two spots lower in races a few times. (Although: didn't Red Bull largely stop developing their care in the latter half of last season? And not sure who Verstappen would have lost positions to outside Hamilton.)

Not that I see it happening, especially not after that mess. But it would be rather hilarious if, after all that, the championship were now taken from Verstappen and Hamilton would get his eighth retroactively. Well, hilarious and sad.

Max is on course for the most * championships in history.

Well, it would still be the same number of championships with an asterisk. Maybe rather the most asterisk'd championship in history: 2021**

 

[sun_tzu]

After Christian Horner remained adamant that Red Bull had not gone over the cost cap, Mercedes Team Principal Toto Wolff was quick to respond that Horner's team are being investigated

Here is what they could face if found in breach of the regulations:

"Funny that Christian (Horner) has said that because it has been weeks and months that they are being investigated," said Wolff.

"He mustn't speak to his CFO.

"All of us have been investigated thoroughly and, as we understand, a team is being investigated for a minor breach which is procedural and another team that is fundamentally massively over.

"That is an open secret in the paddock.

"I think there is a governance in place that is very solid that the FIA have set up and you are going to be issued a certificate of compliance and if you are not compliant it goes to the cost cap adjudication panel.

"Then the panel judges and they can choose from these penalties the appropriate one.

"The crucial part is that if you have been over in 2021 then you have been over in 2022 and that means you have an advantage into 2023.

"This is heavyweight stuff.

"We are using used parts, we are not running what we want to run, we are not developing what we could be developing.

"We have made more than 40 people redundant in our organisation and it was a huge, mammoth operation to make the cap.

"I don't know how many tens of millions we had to restructure and reprocess to be below the cap and if someone has been not doing that or pushing the boundaries then every million is a massive disadvantage.

"It is not for me to judge what the penalties could be, the judges have all that scope to analyse but I wouldn't want to be in their position given the impact over three years."

They are going to make Massi the judge and he is going to ban Hamilton for 2023, make merc run this years car forever and retrospectively give max all of Hamilton's titles

 

[Leg-End]

Latifi The sooner he's gone the better.

1.4 seconds behind a guy who nearly died 3 weeks ago, great stuff Goatifi.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Does anybody really think Max will have his win taken away from him ?
Lewis would not want to win his 8th in that fashion.
I can see the point @Cheimoon is making, drivers dont control the budget , but over spending does give them the better car.
This is going to be a minefield for the FIA.
This will overshadow the rest of the season.

 

[redshaw]

I dont actually mind Sky coverage, its better than C4.
The BBC days were far better, but they will never have F1 again.
Sky F1 is already in my Sky package.

I much prefer C4 presenters David Coulthard, Lee Mckenzie, Mark Webber and Billy Monger, a nice group that add a lot, only problem is the actual coverage of the event is limited due to sprint races and American time zones making C4 push quali to Sunday morning.

If I had the money for Sky I would still be very reluctant and would still prefer watching C4 highlights with the interviews and thoughts of David and Mark. I like Martin Brundle on Sky but the rest I could do without, they taint the package. Maybe some have gone but Lazenby Herbert Croft spoil it.

Ideally it would be nice to just get a few more live races on C4 (preferably some evening races) and not get the FTA coverage of quali nerfed. The Sky F1 package is simply not attractive enough and before it went to a paywall I found myself more and more recording races/quali if it was a nice afternoon and watch a few hours later and also recorded early morning races.

 

[rimaldo]

Does anybody really think Max will have his win taken away from him ?
Lewis would not want to win his 8th in that fashion.
I can see the point @Cheimoon is making, drivers dont control the budget , but over spending does give them the better car.
This is going to be a minefield for the FIA.
This will overshadow the rest of the season.

i think the only realistic punishment here is for horner and verstappen to be humanely destroyed.

 

[sun_tzu]

Does anybody really think Max will have his win taken away from him ?
Lewis would not want to win his 8th in that fashion.
I can see the point @Cheimoon is making, drivers dont control the budget , but over spending does give them the better car.
This is going to be a minefield for the FIA.
This will overshadow the rest of the season.

I'm going to guess that if red bull thought hey were doing things right last season they will have continued doing the same thing this season (or more likey if they thought they could get away with it last season they will be getting away with it this season as well) - several teams have already questioned RB's spending this season as well so could overshadow next season as well because of course they get to keep the data and developments from the overspend as well.

No doubt redbull will go legal in their defence as well so yeah it could drag on for a long long time ... or untill they just change the rules and let them win (again)

 

[sun_tzu]

i think the only realistic punishment here is for horner and verstappen to be humanely destroyed.

I mean I'm ok with humanely destroying Max but dos it really have to be humanely with Horner?... I for one would be happy to pay a bit extra if it wasn't humanely for a PPV

 

[pauldyson1uk]

I mean I'm ok with humanely destroying Max but dos it really have to be humanely with Horner?... I for one would be happy to pay a bit extra if it wasn't humanely for a PPV

 

[ZIDANE]

Would be surprised if a company like Red Bull couldn't sort out it's accounting especially given who they are owned by. Still they could not turn up to the grid a few races and still win both championships.

 

[sepulturite]

Does anybody really think Max will have his win taken away from him ?
Lewis would not want to win his 8th in that fashion.
I can see the point @Cheimoon is making, drivers dont control the budget , but over spending does give them the better car.
This is going to be a minefield for the FIA.
This will overshadow the rest of the season.

Very rarely do these things end up affecting the driver, you just have to look back at other controversies like crashgate and spygate, Alonso kept his win from Singapore, and only McLaren got punished with not being able to score constructors points and a fine.

So I think red bull will be punished, but more than likely not Max.

 

[dinostar77]

From BBC sport, article about RedBull.

"...Teams regard it as an open secret that there has been both a major and a minor breach. At least one team has been given that information direct from the FIA.

And there is concern that the FIA will try to reduce the offence to a minor one to limit the damage to the championship..."

Red Bull and the FIA are known to have been in conversation on the matter of compliance with the budget cap for some time

 

[dinostar77]

Would be surprised if a company like Red Bull couldn't sort out it's accounting especially given who they are owned by. Still they could not turn up to the grid a few races and still win both championships.

Thats what makes it so bizzare. Best car on the grid easily. Theres no down to the wire championship, so why be so stupid unless you did it on purpose knowing the knowledge gained on track for next season (perez has been running experimental floors), would be worth any minor fine or deduction in points.

 

[SilentWitness]

Budget is not in the drivers' hands, but so is a lot of car development - and car development does determine their performance to a very large extent. So if Red Bull went over budget and spent more money on car improvements than they had a right to, then maybe Verstappen had a better car than he should have had, and should have finished one or two spots lower in races a few times. (Although: didn't Red Bull largely stop developing their care in the latter half of last season? And not sure who Verstappen would have lost positions to outside Hamilton.)

Not that I see it happening, especially not after that mess. But it would be rather hilarious if, after all that, the championship were now taken from Verstappen and Hamilton would get his eighth retroactively. Well, hilarious and sad.

Well, it would still be the same number of championships with an asterisk. Maybe rather the most asterisk'd championship in history: 2021**

I mean last year and this year, making two!

 

[Rooney1987]

Sky Sports will remain the exclusive home of Formula 1 in the UK and Ireland until 2029 after Sky extended its partnership with the sport

Seems like we're in the minority but I like Sky's F1 coverage. I think it's one of the few sports they do pretty well in.

 

[gormless]

Seems like we're in the minority but I like Sky's F1 coverage. I think it's one of the few sports they do pretty well in.

It’s good coverage. It just massively reduces the view base at the cost of long term harm to the sport

 

[ZIDANE]

Lots of us grew up watching F1 on free tv in the UK. If it wasn’t free back then I wouldn’t have been able to watch it. Things change with streaming but that’s still a barrier.

 

[Robertd0803]

If (big if) Red Bull are found guilty of breaching the cap and if (even bigger if) they get punished then they should get every punishment in the book thrown at them. Cheating shits. That being said they will then appeal it for years anyway.

As regards Lewis not wanting an 8th title due to it being stripped I think he might just be ok with it considering how it was robbed from him in the first place.

Every other team would stand to gain as well so they will all be for Red Bull getting booted out of the championships and every other punishment possible.

On a side note Sky keeping the rights is great news. Their coverage has been immense since day one.

 

[ArjenIsM3]

FIA STATEMENT ON FINANCIAL REGULATIONS
30.09.22
The FIA is currently finalising the assessment of the 2021 financial data submitted by all Formula 1 teams. Alleged breaches of the Financial Regulations, if any, will be dealt with according to the formal process set out in the regulations.

The FIA notes significant and unsubstantiated speculation and conjecture in relation to this matter, and reiterates that the assessment is ongoing and due process will be followed without consideration to any external discussion.

 

[RepardReece]

If (big if) Red Bull are found guilty of breaching the cap and if (even bigger if) they get punished then they should get every punishment in the book thrown at them. Cheating shits. That being said they will then appeal it for years anyway.

As regards Lewis not wanting an 8th title due to it being stripped I think he might just be ok with it considering how it was robbed from him in the first place.

Every other team would stand to gain as well so they will all be for Red Bull getting booted out of the championships and every other punishment possible.

On a side note Sky keeping the rights is great news. Their coverage has been immense since day one.

I agree. I see comments here saying it wouldn't be fair to strip Max of the title but at the same time he most likely wouldn't have won if they didn't breach the cost cap (nevermind the shit at the end of the season).

I seriously doubt it'll happen however

 

[Cheimoon]

I mean last year and this year, making two!

That does make two, but what's asteriskable (surely a real word) about this year?

 

[dinostar77]

I totally misread todays issue. Didnt realise that 2021 season both RB and AM were alledgly in excess of the budget cap. Now it makes sense why people are going on about lewis not wanting a 8th title like this. I did wonder what people were on about as hes sixth in this yeara championship at present.

If RB are found guilty of exceeding last years budget, all hell will break loose. FIA will want to cover it up as much as possible i.e. damage control for the sport. Mercedes will rightfully be furious and want RB punished. After all its a double whammy for them. Masi making up rules and the RB car being illegal as RB broke the budget cap.

I think FIA will cover it all up somehow. Max needs to go to a different team not to have his career tainted with RB cheating.

 

[Balljy]

I totally misread todays issue. Didnt realise that 2021 season both RB and AM were alledgly in excess of the budget cap. Now it makes sense why people are going on about lewis not wanting a 8th title like this. I did wonder what people were on about as hes sixth in this yeara championship at present.

If RB are found guilty of exceeding last years budget, all hell will break loose. FIA will want to cover it up as much as possible i.e. damage control for the sport. Mercedes will rightfully be furious and want RB punished. After all its a double whammy for them. Masi making up rules and the RB car being illegal as RB broke the budget cap.

I think FIA will cover it all up somehow. Max needs to go to a different team not to have his career tainted with RB cheating.

Agreed, it's the last thing the FIA will want, if the teams have access to the data it'll probably be court cases for years unless the FIA do something. Massi making an incorrect decision is one thing, but provable (and rule breaking) cost overruns are very different if it has happened.

 

[F-Red]

If there is foul play of the constructor in the lead then it'll be something like Ferrari's undisclosed punishment in 2019 from the FIA.

 

[sepulturite]

I totally misread todays issue. Didnt realise that 2021 season both RB and AM were alledgly in excess of the budget cap. Now it makes sense why people are going on about lewis not wanting a 8th title like this. I did wonder what people were on about as hes sixth in this yeara championship at present.

If RB are found guilty of exceeding last years budget, all hell will break loose. FIA will want to cover it up as much as possible i.e. damage control for the sport. Mercedes will rightfully be furious and want RB punished. After all its a double whammy for them. Masi making up rules and the RB car being illegal as RB broke the budget cap.

I think FIA will cover it all up somehow. Max needs to go to a different team not to have his career tainted with RB cheating.

As I said above, I think they will punish them if they have done it but I think it'll be only the constructors, like either points deduction or disqualification. I just can't see them punishing the drivers here, even though I'm on the fence myself about whether they should or not.

Like it or not the FIA won't want red bull throwing a strop and leaving the sport if they punish them to severely.

 

[hobbers]

The fact the FIA put out that statement to quell speculation probably means a lot of Merc fans are going to be disappointed.

 

[The Firestarter]

Tax tax tax supr supr tax .

Dunno why I typed that but is vaguely financially related .

 

[slyadams]

That does make two, but what's asteriskable (surely a real word) about this year?

Because money spent in 2021 was used to develop the 2022 car.

 

[Jippy]

It's been absolutely pissing it down in Singapore all day. It's slowing now and it dries here quick cos of the heat, but the weather here is so unpredictable it must be a nightmare for the strategists.

 

[dinostar77]

As I said above, I think they will punish them if they have done it but I think it'll be only the constructors, like either points deduction or disqualification. I just can't see them punishing the drivers here, even though I'm on the fence myself about whether they should or not.

Like it or not the FIA won't want red bull throwing a strop and leaving the sport if they punish them to severely.

They have an opportunity here to fix the one of the most controversal moment in sporting history and correct an injustice.

Remove RB from last years Abu Dhabi race results as a punishment for exceeding the spending limit by $7mil dollars. Remove both RB drivers from that race result. Award the title to the rightful winner of that championship i.e. hamilton.

Max has pretty much won this years already, so this year becomes his first world title.

Then also remove a percentage of wind tunnel and cfd design time for next season or make RB pay a fine of say $20mil and give that money to the other teams and allow them to add it to ther budget for next season for developing their car.

That should be sufficent punishment to stop others repeating what RB have done. Otherwise the budget cap is dead in the water.

Unfortunately FIA wont do any of this, as it would damage the sport or some other bullshit.

As for FIA being concerned about RB leaving, call their bluff. Porsche is waiting in the wings to take a majority control in RB and Honda are interested in returning. Plus FIA dont really want independent teams like Haas, Andretti racing etc on the grid, they'd much prefer car manufacturers instead, that much is obvious.

OR just kick them out of this years championship, both drivers and the team. Then whoever finishes 2nd in the drivers table (behind a disqualified max) will be champion. That will be a grandstand finish to the season.

Breaking the budget cap is analogous to sporting doping. The amount in question is eqiuvalent to a season of car development according to bbcf1. Maximum punishments must be implemented othewrise the integrity of the sport will be questioned again so soon.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

I don’t think that retrospective point penalties would be good for the sport. I know that it probably makes sense to do that from a competitive point of view but it would be a foolish decision for f1 to change results now all these months down the line